Dual Blade Builds

Do we even know if ADS removes the delay in Chains though? I don't think anyone in KMS/T has done a build without ADS so we haven't seen the difference between the two. Unless there's something drastically different between ADS and DS in the data I don't think that is the case. Sorry for the late reply, been busy with school. If ADS does remove the Chains delay, then alright it'd be a better idea to get ADS but if all ADS does is allows you to stay inside the skill after attacking then it probably isn't worth the hassle. My DB in KMST is only level 79 and Kayako/Takebacker/ShiKage are all using the Battle Mage/Wild Hunter so I doubt I'll be able to get the DB to 12x anytime soon to try it out.

Do we even know if ADS removes the delay in Chains though? I don't think anyone in KMS/T has done a build without ADS so we haven't seen the difference between the two. Unless there's something drastically different between ADS and DS in the data I don't think that is the case. Sorry for the late reply, been busy with school. If ADS does remove the Chains delay, then alright it'd be a better idea to get ADS but if all ADS does is allows you to stay inside the skill after attacking then it probably isn't worth the hassle. My DB in KMST is only level 79 and Kayako/Takebacker/ShiKage are all using the Battle Mage/Wild Hunter so I doubt I'll be able to get the DB to 12x anytime soon to try it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5j0ZpoDn8w

If you pay attention to that, you'll see a few times where advanced dark sight allows the DB to use chains in succession, most notably at the end.

Ah I misunderstood you before, thought you meant something else. Do you really think it's worth getting ADS for a ~25% chance of this working though? =/ I'm not convinced... I noticed in the Griffey/Manon video the DB was stunned and in DS with about 800 HP left, and almost had to cancel DS to survive. I can imagine this happening at a lot of other places and I'm not sure that it'd be a good idea to get ADS for that reason.

Ah I misunderstood you before, thought you meant something else. Do you really think it's worth getting ADS for a ~25% chance of this working though? =/ I'm not convinced... I noticed in the Griffey/Manon video the DB was stunned and in DS with about 800 HP left, and almost had to cancel DS to survive. I can imagine this happening at a lot of other places and I'm not sure that it'd be a good idea to get ADS for that reason.

[COLOR="orange"]Well, as far as I can tell, that DB has mediocre control.
Still, ADS wouldn't necessarily be the reason you get stuck in that situation, even Shads get stunned at low HP in DS before we can pull an Assassinate off. Besides, if you do end up getting Auto-pot, that certainly won't be a problem.[/COLOR]

 Spoiler

Just advanced today, you can save SP from 2 to 2+.

Also, not sure if you wanted it to be like that, but in 2nd you put in 2 disorder then in 2+ you put in 3 more, making 5? Not sure why you'd want 5 Disorder.

 Spoiler

Just advanced today, you can save SP from 2 to 2+.

Also, not sure if you wanted it to be like that, but in 2nd you put in 2 disorder then in 2+ you put in 3 more, making 5? Not sure why you'd want 5 Disorder.

Weird, because this video shows that you can't: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN736xf9faY

Nexon must've changed it after releasing DBs in non-tespia kMS then. Makes things confusing =/ Also, do you know for sure whether or not you can save from 2nd+ to 3rd? If so, you can probably skip out entirely on nimble body, dark sight, fatal blow, and higher booster and max every useful 3rd+ skill right away at 70.

By 3 disorder I meant 3 disorder total, up from 2.

Ah I misunderstood you before, thought you meant something else. Do you really think it's worth getting ADS for a ~25% chance of this working though? =/ I'm not convinced... I noticed in the Griffey/Manon video the DB was stunned and in DS with about 800 HP left, and almost had to cancel DS to survive. I can imagine this happening at a lot of other places and I'm not sure that it'd be a good idea to get ADS for that reason.

As far as the SP goes, all you'd lose is 15 endure and 5 nimble body points for getting advanced dark sight. Apart from getting stunned or sealed (can you use allcures in DS?) in the split second between using dark sight and chains, it's very easy to stay alive with advanced dark sight because of the invincibility that chains gives you. Even if you get hit in that split second and end up with low hp, successive chains from staying in dark sight keeps you completely invincible, and when you do leave dark sight, you have a ton of time to use a potion. The only problems with advanced dark sight are when you are forced to walk into a boss with dark sight on and final cut out of it and the stun/seal mentioned earlier. The final cut issue isn't solved by having 0 advanced dark sight though (imagine something like scarlion and targa) and can be overcome with bosses that do low damage or are immobile and made up of only one or however many parts you can keep track of so that you can time your final cut as to not hit just as the boss is attacking, then use chains immediately in the 49% chance or use a potion if you leave dark sight. The stun/seal issue isn't too hard to overcome; in the case of manon/griffey, you could simply hug them or the kents around them and be careful not to stand on the platforms so as not to get stunned by the moles.

Nexon must've changed it after releasing DBs in non-tespia kMS then. Makes things confusing =/ Also, do you know for sure whether or not you can save from 2nd+ to 3rd? If so, you can probably skip out entirely on nimble body, dark sight, fatal blow, and higher booster and max every useful 3rd+ skill right away at 70.

You can't.

I'll take your word for it regarding the lengh of invincibility frames on Chains of Hell then. In that case, back to Advanced Dark Sight because it will potentially increase DPS/M and is substantially more useful than Endure and Nimble Body. I'll update my build, I'm going to post the guide I made on lolbasilmarket in a few minutes in a new thread if anyone is interested.

Edit: You can't use all cure potions in Dark Sight. Autopot also doesn't heal you when you're in dark sight (or when you come out of it) ...unless you had low MP, and coming out of it with a skill made your MP flash in which case it'd pot your MP only.

Edit 2: Would you suggest Endure or Nimble Body, Cyanne? I think theres enough SP to max one or the other (or at least get one to ~15). I think they're both a bit useless. Recovering MP or avoid?

Nexon must've changed it after releasing DBs in non-tespia kMS then. Makes things confusing =/ Also, do you know for sure whether or not you can save from 2nd+ to 3rd? If so, you can probably skip out entirely on nimble body, dark sight, fatal blow, and higher booster and max every useful 3rd+ skill right away at 70.

Well this is in Tespia, and I doubt they're still making changes to them. I assume its like this in reg KMS too, but now that you cant make one anymore, its hard to check.

I'll try to get to 55 soon to check it out.

Why would you want to not get any Fatal Blow though?

Well this is in Tespia, and I doubt they're still making changes to them. I assume its like this in reg KMS too, but now that you cant make one anymore, its hard to check.

I'll try to get to 55 soon to check it out.

Why would you want to not get any Fatal Blow though?

It's near-useless in training except for balrog, which nobody ever really does in gMS due to 2x cards and much better training places like mysterious path 3 and lower ascent.

I'll take your word for it regarding the lengh of invincibility frames on Chains of Hell then. In that case, back to Advanced Dark Sight because it will potentially increase DPS/M and is substantially more useful than Endure and Nimble Body. I'll update my build, I'm going to post the guide I made on lolbasilmarket in a few minutes in a new thread if anyone is interested.

Edit: You can't use all cure potions in Dark Sight. Autopot also doesn't heal you when you're in dark sight (or when you come out of it) ...unless you had low MP, and coming out of it with a skill made your MP flash in which case it'd pot your MP only.

Edit 2: Would you suggest Endure or Nimble Body, Cyanne? I think theres enough SP to max one or the other (or at least get one to ~15). I think they're both a bit useless. Recovering MP or avoid?

I think nimble body is much more useful, you can't get the passive avoid anywhere else, and it's at least somewhat helpful to improve your avoid. The accuracy also helps for starting royals or possibly grandpa boss early. All endure does is save you 40 mesos every 5 seconds (only 48k per hour, which is barely anything), and that's assuming you don't get hit enough to have your ales max out your mp whenever you get hit. The only practical use of endure is for places like mu lung dojo, drpq, chaos zakum/horntail, etc. where you can't use potions, but chains of hell costs so much mp to use that endure isn't likely to save you.

Sounds good. I've updated the builds I posted on basil to this:

 Spoiler

1st Job [Rogue]:

10: +1 Double Stab
11: +3 Double Stab
12: +3 Double Stab
13: +3 Double Stab [10 Double Stab]
14: Save
15: Save
16: Save
17: Save
18: Save
19: Save

Explanation: Obvious. Double Stab is the only decent skill here so far, and you can save the rest for the next job advance.

2nd Job [Semi Dualer]:

20: +10 Mastery, +6 Triple Stab, +5 Booster
21: +1 Booster, +2 Triple Stab
22: +2 Triple Stab, +1 Mastery [10 Triple Stab]
23: +3 Mastery
24: +3 Mastery
25: +2 Mastery [19 Mastery], +1 Booster
26: +3 Booster
27: +3 Booster
28: +3 Booster
29: +3 Disorder
30: +3 Dark Sight

Explanation: Mastery is going to help a lot at the lower levels, so get it to 40% in order for your attacks to be doing stable damage. 5 Triple Stab is enough to kill mobs quickly and since you level quickly with a mob skill you can get away without maxing it yet. After getting 6 booster for a minute of extra speed, finish Triple Stab then go back to Mastery. After your mastery and main attacking skill is done, go ahead and get some extra booster then finish with a few points of Dark Sight if you want to Ludi PQ or Guild PQ.

2nd Job+ [Dualer]:

30: +1 Slash Storm
31: +3 Haste
32: +3 Haste
33: +3 Haste
34: +3 Haste
35: +3 Haste
36: +3 Haste
37: +2 Haste [20 Haste], +1 Fatal Blow
38: +3 Slash Storm
39: +3 Slash Storm [Cash Shop mastery book]
40: +3 Slash Storm
41: +3 Slash Storm
42: +3 Slash Storm
43: +3 Slash Storm [20 Slash Storm]
44: +3 Fatal Blow
45: +3 Fatal Blow
46: +3 Fatal Blow
47: +3 Fatal Blow
48: +3 Fatal Blow
49: +3 Fatal Blow
50: +1 Fatal Blow [20 Fatal Blow], +2 Dark Sight
51: +3 Dark Sight
52: +3 Dark Sight
53: +3 Dark Sight
54: +3 Dark Sight
55: +3 Dark Sight [20 Dark Sight]

Explanation: This build will probably be quite controversial. Let me explain: Haste is a very good skill that will increase your training speed by a lot. Slash Storm isn't really a great training skill until you max it, and not only does that require an NX mastery book, if you do max it first you'll end up training slower because your movement is low anyway. In the rare case that you have at least 130% speed and 115% jump at all times, switch Slash Storm with Haste in this build. Haste will help you train very well at Truckers, it'll help you move around CPQ better and it'll be very useful at places like STDs too. 1 Slash Storm gives you enough movement for now. You get 1 Fatal Blow at 37 because it has a cool animation, it's for showing off. If you're bothered by this, skip it and continue with the next skill. After you have your movement skills down, finish Slash Storm for the extra damage and then get Fatal Blow. Fatal Blow isn't really useful much but by 50 you might want to start doing the Balrog PQ or at 55 Ellin Forest PQ, and both of these will require Fatal Blow. CPQ2 could also use Fatal Blow depending on the monsters summoned. Finish this advancement with maxing Dark Sight so you can stay at max speed while inside it.

3rd Job: [Dual Master]

55: +1 Flash Jump
56: +1 Tornado Spin, +1 Flash Bang, +1 Flash Jump
57: +3 Flash Jump
58: +3 Flash Jump
59: +3 Flash Jump
60: +3 Flash Jump
61: +3 Flash Jump
62: +3 Flash Jump [20 Flash Jump]
63: Save
64: Save
65: Save
66: Save
67: Save
68: Save
69: Save
70: Save

Explanation: Generic-ish build here: Get 1 in everything so you can get a feel for the skills then max Flash Jump and save up the points for the next job, since you can use them all at 3rd+. Flash Jump helps a lot for movement, so max that here. Tornado Spin is entirely useless until you have Flying Assaulter, so don't bother with that yet.

3rd Job+: [Slasher]

70: +15 Flying Assaulter [Cash Shop mastery book], +6 Mirror Image, +6 Bloody Storm
71: +3 Bloody Storm
72: +1 Bloody Storm [10 Bloody Storm], +3 Mirror Image
73: +2 Mirror Image [Cash Shop mastery book], +2 Upper Stab
74: +3 Upper Stab
75: +3 Upper Stab
76: +3 Upper Stab
77: +3 Upper Stab
78: +3 Upper Stab
79: +3 Upper Stab [20 Upper Stab]
80: +3 Flying Assaulter
81: +2 Flying Assaulter [20 Flying Assaulter], +1 Mirror Image
82: +3 Mirror Image
83: +3 Mirror Image
84: +3 Mirror Image
85: +3 Mirror Image
86: +3 Mirror Image
87: +3 Mirror Image [30 Mirror Image]
88: +3 Tornado Spin
89: +4 Tornado Spin [Cash Shop Mastery Book]
90: +3 Tornado Spin
91: +3 Tornado Spin
92: +3 Tornado Spin
93: +2 Tornado Spin, +1 Endure
94: +1 Tornado Spin [20 Tornado Spin], +2 Owl Dead / +2 Flash Bang
95: +3 Owl Dead / +3 Flash Bang
96: +3 Owl Dead / +3 Flash Bang
97: +3 Owl Dead / +3 Flash Bang
98: +3 Owl Dead / +3 Flash Bang
99: +3 Owl Dead / +3 Flash Bang
100: +3 Owl Dead [20 Owl Dead] / +2 Flash Bang [20 Flash Bang], +1 Endure
101: +3 Booster
102: +1 Booster [20 Booster], +2 Flash Bang / +2 Owl Dead
103: +3 Flash Bang / +3 Owl Dead
104: +3 Flash Bang / +3 Owl Dead
105: +3 Flash Bang / +3 Owl Dead
106: +3 Flash Bang / +3 Owl Dead
107: +3 Flash Bang / +3 Owl Dead
108: +2 Flash Bang [20 Flash Bang], +1 Endure / +3 Owl Dead [20 Owl Dead]
109: +3 Advanced Dark Sight
110: +3 Advanced Dark Sight
111: +3 Advanced Dark Sight
112: +3 Advanced Dark Sight
113: +3 Advanced Dark Sight
114: +3 Advanced Dark Sight
115: +2 Advanced Dark Sight [20 Advanced Dark Sight], +1 Nimble Body
116: +3 Nimble Body
117: +3 Nimble Body
118: +3 Nimble Body
119: +3 Nimble Body
120: +3 Nimble Body [16 Nimble Body]

Explanation: Flying Assaulter is a very strong skill, and it has a lot of potential with the 1 Tornado Spin you added earlier when you're training in big maps like Lower Ascent or the Typhon map. 6 Mirror Image is mainly because it looks cool and is a nice skill to have - it's damage is really quite poor until high levels. I like this skill and it will probably help a lot more with the Flying Assaulter and Bloody Storm due to the amount of times they hit. Also, if you're still using Triple Stab (which you can be) it makes Triple Stab hit 6 times, which is awesome. Bloody Storm is the best use of 10 SP ever. It gives a massive boost to Slash Storm, better looking skill frames and a much wider range. Get it asap. Once you're done with those two, get Mirror Image up to 11 for higher damage and an extra minute so it helps you at the higher level maps you'll be moving toward in a few levels. Himes, Galloperas and Typhons will make use of Mirror Image nicely. After you're done with that, max Upper Stab so you can really put the hurt on mobs. You'll be moving quickly due to Tornado Spin, Flying Assaulter and Bloody Storm and with the speed of Upper Stab you'll be training really quickly. After Upper Stab, go back and finish maxing Mirror Image for the extra damage and duration and then get Tornado Spin for the extra damage it provides in the Flying Assaulter combo. Flash Bang is useful for luring mobs at this point, but Owl Dead provides a potential chance to do extra damage to mobs so this really depends on your playing style. If you prefer to mob then I'd suggest Flash Bang, but if you prefer to kill things that are higher level than you (or if you're funded and want to go places you shouldn't) then I'd say Owl Dead. After you get either OD or FB, get the other so you can utilise all of the training maps available for you. Finally, get Advanced Dark Sight for the extra potential DPM it provides you when using Chains of Hell, and then finish off with Endure for the MP/HP recovery.

4th Job [Dual Blader]:

120: +1 Thorns, +1 Venom, +1 Final Cut
121: +1 Sudden Raid, +Chains, +1 Thorns
122: +3 Thorns
123: +3 Thorns
124: +4 Thorns [Cash Shop Mastery book]
125: +3 Venom
126: +3 Venom
127: +3 Venom
128: +1 Venom, +2 Thorns
129: +3 Thorns
130: +3 Thorns
131: +3 Thorns
132: +3 Thorns
133: +3 Thorns
134: +1 Thorns, +2 Final Cut
135: +3 Final Cut
136: +3 Chains / +3 Final Cut
137: +3 Chains / +3 Final Cut
138: +3 Chains / +3 Final Cut
139: +3 Chains / +3 Final Cut
140: +3 Chains / +3 Final Cut
141: +3 Chains / +3 Final Cut
142: +3 Chains / +3 Final Cut
143: +3 Chains / +3 Final Cut
144: +3 Chains
145: +2 Chains, +1 Stack Effect
146: +3 Stack Effect
147: +3 Stack Effect
148: +3 Stack Effect
149: +3 Stack Effect
150: +3 Stack Effect
151: +3 Stack Effect
152: +3 Stack Effect
153: +3 Stack Effect
154: +1 Stack Effect
155: +3 Final Cut / +3 Chains
156: +3 Final Cut / +3 Chains
157: +3 Final Cut / +3 Chains
158: +3 Final Cut / +3 Chains
159: +3 Final Cut / +3 Chains
160: +3 Final Cut / +3 Chains
161: +3 Final Cut / +3 Chains
162: +3 Final Cut / +3 Chains
163: +1 Hero's Will, +2 Maple Warrior
164: +3 Maple Warrior
165: +3 Maple Warrior
166: +3 Maple Warrior
167: +3 Maple Warrior
168: +3 Maple Warrior
169: +3 Maple Warrior
170: +3 Maple Warrior
171: +3 Maple Warrior
172: +3 Maple Warrior
173: +3 Venom
174: +3 Venom
175: +3 Venom
176: +1 Venom, +2 Sudden Raid
177: +3 Sudden Raid
178: +3 Sudden Raid
179: +3 Sudden Raid
180: +3 Sudden Raid
181: +3 Sudden Raid
182: +3 Sudden Raid
183: +3 Sudden Raid
184: +3 Sudden Raid
185: +3 Sudden Raid

185 onwards has nothing of value left to add really, so I'll end it here.

4th: Fairly straightforward, get 1 in most of the skills available so you can get used to them then start with Thorns. Thorns is a great party skill and is very useful, so get it to 11 for now. Venom will help you train a lot faster because Dual Bladers hit so many times, it'll activate very often. After 11 Venom go back and max Thorns for the extra damage potential, then work on Chains. Chains is an awesome 1v1 (your best, actually) skill, so you'll want that for bossing by now. After Chains go ahead and get Stack Effect for bosses like Anego, Bigfoot (potentially), the Bodyguards and Showa Boss and of course the Royal Guard. After you're done with Stack Effect go ahead and max Final Cut so your damage is even more 1337hax and then work on Maple Warrior for the extra stats it gives you. After you're done with Maple Warrior it's really just Sudden Raid, and even then Sudden Raid isn't particularly useful to get past level 1 but it's still in your book, so go ahead and get that.

[b]Sidenote: I changed the build up a bit; using Fatal Blow with Final Cut activated provides roughly the same DPS as Chains of Hell would without Final Cut, so it's really up to you which you get first. If you train more, go Final Cut, but if you boss more, go Chains. Chains isn't really that useful when you're training since it takes quite a long time to cast and is overkill - much like Barrage for a Buccaneer.

That's literally just a copy/paste. Anything you think I should change? I'm not entirely sure if I used too much/too little SP because I had some trouble with some of the numbers in certain areas but I think it's right now.