Balancing is over

You're telling him to abandon all that he has worked for and start again, rather than just take an alternate path. He shouldn't have to do that. And here's a more applicable scenario: A group of you are doing the same job, and then everyone but you gets a pay rise. Wouldn't you be mad?

Wanting more out of a balance patch that f'ucked balance up between 2 similar classes does not mean i hate my class. Saying that i should make a new class if i don't like my damage after another class got stronger is not a compelling argument or counter point. Would you have said that to any paladin b'itching about their class a few months ago?

Just because they were similar at one point doesn't mean that they need to stay similar forever. It was purely coincidental that they were similar in the first place, I highly doubt the creators sat there going YOU KNOW, PALADINS NEED A COUNTERPART... LET'S MAKE THAT BUCCANEERS!

You know, Bucc's have pure invincibility, maybe paladins should too.

And yes, I would absolutely have said to play another class if they were unhappy with theirs before the rebalance.

You know, Bucc's have pure invincibility

No they don't.

They do have more invincibility since DS was sped up, but they can't be 100% invincible.

If I may ask, what's wrong with wanting to be invited to boss runs with your current class instead of training up a class you don't like so you've got a shot at it?

That's not the fault of the design team, that's a player fault. It's because of shallow players who want to do everything in record time that some classes get left out. If anyone is determined enough to get into a boss run (except HT which is really off-limits to most players because of douches (again, player fault)) then they can by simply recruiting and leading a run themselves. It takes a while and it's difficult but if it's something you're interested in then it's something you can do regardless of class.

Player faults shouldn't be taken into account during rebalances or we might as well all just hit 200k always.

The problem aren't the classes. It's the entire community, we're all obsessive over DPS.

^This.

If I may ask, what's wrong with wanting to be invited to boss runs with your current class instead of training up a class you don't like so you've got a shot at it?

Most boss runs require you to know someone who's hosting in order to get invited. With the exception of PB and maybe HT, most people will invite their friends no matter which class. I know a F/P mage who's invited to every PB run and alot of HT runs. Then there are plenty of BM's and NL's who would do much more damage but aren't invited because they simply don't talk to organizers.

And here's a more applicable scenario: A group of you are doing the same job, and then everyone but you gets a pay rise. Wouldn't you be mad?

That's not really more applicable since most pay raises are based on the quality of the job the employee is doing.

With the exception of PB and maybe HT, most people will invite their friends no matter which class.

I beg to differ.

I beg to differ.

You can't tell me that people are still smega'ing for NL's/BM's to do a zakum run or scarlion/targa run.

The way I see it, it's like life. You can turn and twist this all you want, truthfully, people are selfish. I'm not one to say that I am not, but I slowly try to adapt to the situation and either deal with it, or leave.

You're a computer-programmer, you're making 50k a year for example. Your best friend, who is also a network-admin makes around 49k. Suddenly, his boss promotes him and gives him +5k more for the next year. Now that person makes 54k a year. Of course, the computer-programmer will get jealous. Should he be happy for his friend? Probably. Is he? No. He's just mad because his bestfriend got a raise and he didn't. And now he's whining about it.

/end

PS: And before someone tells me "You play a Night Lord, you have no room to talk". K, well, before the BISHOP/NL days, there were Hermits and DKs. I played a DK, and yes, DKs were the sh't back then. I was a PADK, which was puny compared to a Hybrid. I soon found out about hybrids. I eventually quit my DK and played a Sin, got it to Hermit, and eventually.. Night Lord. -shrug- Some people might find this hard, but it's a part of life. I also made an Assassin, not knowing about it's future (aka Night Lord), and still had fun with my class, because I enjoy jump-shooting and speed. If you like your class, why should you care what others receives?

You can't tell me that people are still smega'ing for NL's/BM's to do a zakum run or scarlion/targa run.

No, they're not. They just say it in buddy chat. But of course they 'don't see' when their Arch Mage / Shadower friends ask if they can come.

You're telling him to abandon all that he has worked for and start again, rather than just take an alternate path. He shouldn't have to do that. And here's a more applicable scenario: A group of you are doing the same job, and then everyone but you gets a pay rise. Wouldn't you be mad?

Not everyone is doing the same job though. If this were an office workplace, NL's would be the managers and Archmages would be the janitors. Bucc's and paladins would be representatives and salesmen, respectively. Reps and salesman both deal with people on the phone alot but their jobs aren't the same and if the salesman got a raise then that would be fine, even if I were a rep, because we're not the same. And salesmen have gone a very long time without a raise. I know that eventually, sometime in the future, reps will get a raise, and you have to wait patiently for it instead of kicking and screaming and making unreasonable demands for it, because that doesn't work and it only embarrasses you.

No, they're not. They just say it in buddy chat. But of course they 'don't see' when their Arch Mage / Shadower friends ask if they can come.

This is the fault of your friends, not your class. Make better friends.

If I ask Isaac, Kev, Mira and even Erich to do something they're usually up for it despite most of us being considered "worthless". I mean, usually we don't get around to it because of scheduling conflicts but no one ever says NO YOU'RE AN I/L NO EFFING WAY LOSER.

No, they're not. They just say it in buddy chat. But of course they 'don't see' when their Arch Mage / Shadower friends ask if they can come.

Just because that's what happens to you doesn't mean it's what happens to everyone else.

Just because that's what happens to you doesn't mean it's what happens to everyone else.

It's happened to a lot more people I know, too.

I'm a bw paladin and I never had trouble going to boss runs if I asked. >_>

Ah, darn. It's a shame they can't give different bonuses based on class, more boost for MM vs NL/BM could help close the gap some.

Ok, with the new rings with everything else the same as before. And remebering to count warriors attacks as multihits, like I forgot to before. So brandish is 2 hits, crusher is 3. [still makes hardly any difference, but eh might as well be accurate]

10% crit rate for 10% extra crit damage puts

Marksmen at 100000% DPM
Heroes at 86087% DPM
Paladins 94652.2% DPM
Drks 65903% DPM

5% Crit rate for +20% damage

Marksmen 97524%
Hero 86086%
Paladin:94652.2%
Drks: 65870.1%

So yeah, the rings make a whopping 87% difference per minute on a paladin. lul. Similar numbers on a hero and drk.(the better ring) Gives marksmen +11619% per minute, give or take.

97524 X 3.6 = 351086 -- mm
86086 X 4 = 344344 -- hero
94652 X 4 = 378608 -- pally
65870 X 5 = 329350 -- drk

Unless I missed something earlier wouldn't these be more accurate representations in order to offset basic disparities within their ranges?
Can't remember what speed you used for pally/hero, I assumed a 1h, if it's slower then multiply that more.

Makes it a lot closer and actually puts a pally ahead, ofc this is w/o snipe but still.
Unless I'm missing something from previous calcs.

97524 X 3.6 = 351086 -- mm
86086 X 4 = 344344 -- hero
94652 X 4 = 378608 -- pally
65870 X 5 = 329350 -- drk

Unless I missed something earlier wouldn't these be more accurate representations in order to offset basic disparities within their ranges?
Can't remember what speed you used for pally/hero, I assumed a 1h, if it's slower then multiply that more.

Makes it a lot closer and actually puts a pally ahead, ofc this is w/o snipe but still.
Unless I'm missing something from previous calcs.

And then we have to consider a ton of other things, like the fact that MM have 90% mastery, snipe, summons, Drks have 80% mastery, weapon attack bonuses and differences between weapons, swing stab ratio for Drks, "average" equips, so on so forth for each class has. And as a physicist, if it gets too complicated, I say pineapple it . If someone else wants to , they can go ahead. Oh, and for larfs, I checked, if snipe had a cooldown of 4 seconds and worked properly, a MM at my level would outdamage me 1v1 and vs mobs.

And then we have to consider a ton of other things, like the fact that MM have 90% mastery, snipe, summons, Drks have 80% mastery, weapon attack bonuses and differences between weapons, swing stab ratio for Drks, "average" equips, so on so forth for each class has. And as a physicist, if it gets too complicated, I say pineapple it . If someone else wants to , they can go ahead. Oh, and for larfs, I checked, if snipe had a cooldown of 4 seconds and worked properly, a MM at my level would outdamage me 1v1 and vs mobs.

I understand, but one simple change turned the entire comparison upside down. I'm all for keeping it simple but it was just nagging at me too much.

It's happened to a lot more people I know, too.

If all of your examples are from Scania, I find your point to be invalid, as Scania has such a tremendous population that it would obviously want the best of the best.

If all of your examples are from Scania, I find your point to be invalid, as Scania has such a tremendous population that it would obviously want the best of the best.

Though I agree with this statement.. A lot of guilds these days have multiple level 200's. I know in Faithful, we have way over ..8+ Lv200's in our guild including multiple divisions. Probably more than 10+, actually.. So yes, expectations are high. But not all of the guilds are like that, though you do make a good point. Scania has always been populated with high-levelled characters.

I understand, but one simple change turned the entire comparison upside down. I'm all for keeping it simple but it was just nagging at me too much.

Indeed, but if you consider the mastery percents, it puts marksmen at an actual multiplier of dex *3.6 for top and dex*2.916, giving an average of *3.258, whereas a 1h sword is 0.9*4.0*0.6 = 2.16 minimum for str, and *4.0 for max, giving an average of *3.08 for str, which still leaves marksmen on top on average, and if we go into accounting swingtab for polearms/spears + innate boosts each type of weapon gets... yeah it's getting very complicated, too much for me at 11:30pm

If all of your examples are from Scania, I find your point to be invalid, as Scania has such a tremendous population that it would obviously want the best of the best.

I'm sorry but this is one of the most idiotic things I have heard in this thread. I'm from the server likely to have the most people affected, so this is just like saying the majority doesn't matter.