A little rant about the game's development.

Hello all, just got back to maple(sea) after a two year break. Newly registered to Southperry as well, so greetings to all. Basically I just want to talk about the game and it's changes over the years, or lack of.

Firstly, I really don't understand why the game developers have not done anything to improve the existing jobs and instead release new ones such as the Cygnus and Aran.

I look at the adventurer classes and I wonder why we have absolutely trash skills such as shield mastery, mp recovery and blessing of the amazon. While they've done some tweaking to other aspects of the adventurers such as minimum range of bows, berserk's HP requisite etc, they've failed to make any bigger improvements to the adventurers where majority of the players are.

Strangely all the changes we as players have seeked are all put into the Cygnus class. Power knock-back being nerfed, the answer being Storm Break is given to the Wind breakers. Fire mages' lack of firepower is unanswered but the new Flame Wizard packs a quite a lot. A bigger improvement for the entire game would the role of defense. Defense in maple story is absolutely useless. Unlike most other mmorpgs where armor is crucial to progressing on to whatever new maps, in maple you'd need defense in the hundreds to make even in the slightest of difference, the amount which can only be achieved with zakum helmet and horntail pendant. With involvement of the defense attribute skills like shield mastery can be considered.

To their credit the game has gotten more depth over the years, with new features such as the family/rep system, maker skill etc. It's still lacking things any mmo should have, such as a personal shop that doesn't cost money (you should be able to expand your shop through cash, but a small, simple shop should be free no?), and quests that are worth the time.

Of course talking about somethings are useless as the developers don't read these boards, or really care anyway. It seems to me though that maple is dying outside of Korea/Japan. The influx of newcomers has really dived and has been stagnant for a long while in maplesea anyway. There hasn't been much new gameplay to keep the regulars on for longer periods as well.

This is my first thread so pardon me if it's a bit messy. I've got a lot of thoughts but can't seem to put them all right.

All valid points, of course.

Obviously the reason old content doesn't get brushed up on is because there's very little incentive from a company standpoint to do it in the first place.

However, KMS is the version most concerned with the balance of this game, which is good cuz KMS is the only version that matters. We will eventually recieve what KMS gets, usually.

They are taking small steps to improve old content, as shown by their recent attempts to brush up on Adventurer class' skill icons and skill animations. Compare 1st and 2nd job skill animations to that of Cygnus, it's a huge difference, not to mention it looks very inconsistent to the style of this game, seeing as how the older animations look like trash, kinda choppy, bad coloring, and low frame count.



So, I'm just hoping that KMS will eventually work on tweaking adventurers' skills so they don't have so many pointless ones.

I'd say they probably won't change too much since it's a lot of work, it'd piss a whole lot of people off while not really making much of a difference to the revenue maple brings in.

This brings me back to that other thread about casual free to play MMOs, I really think that the majority of people just don't care. And for the people that take things a little more seriously, most seem perfectly happy with the way things are now (The total lack of variety in equip choices I mean).

I'd say they probably won't change too much since it's a lot of work, it'd piss a whole lot of people off while not really making much of a difference to the revenue maple brings in.

This brings me back to that other thread about casual free to play MMOs, I really think that the majority of people just don't care. And for the people that take things a little more seriously, most seem perfectly happy with the way things are now (The total lack of variety in equip choices I mean).

This is something that bugs me as well - they try, with varying colors and whatnot, but weapons and shields have little to no real differences beyond 1 or 2 stats (excepting bows/xbows/claws). Then again, the stat structure doesn't allow for much...

One of the reasons Cygnus is so buffed up is that their max level is 120. This prevents them from overpowering Adventurers at later levels.

On the note of balancing the classes, kMS is the only version with the power/capability to do that. And yeah, MSEA is rushing things a bit.

You have to like the path KMS is taking now though. More competitive additions are always welcome, especially if it gives dark scrolls for accessories and 18 stat helmets.

I want to see an adventurer revamp though.

Recently, I had a conversation like this with JoeTang and Lugin, this is what I posted:

Here's what I want.

Implement the new stuff Pirates brought to MapleStory on other classes. Such as skill charging (Corkscrew Punch) to lower job skills (I know they exist in Big Bang and Pierce), Grenade-like throwing, static summons (Octopus), "Transformations" (Transformation, Battleship), power bar charging (Energy Charge), long delays (Corkscrew Punch, Backspin Blow, Double Uppercut), invincibility (Corkscrew Punch, Barrage), etc.

Imagine if they reworked a couple of skills to use those systems, it might do wonders for some classes. Buff up my Shadower's Assassinate's last hit and make it be invincible like Corkscrew, I do not enjoy jabbing me character at high damaging monsters, praying for high avoid or Shadow Shifter to come into play, just to see a bad ass skill.

Also how Pirates can max almost all of their 1st, 2nd and 3rd job skills, makes the game feel less linear, or maybe it's because I'm forced to use almost all the skills on my Buccaneer. Each skill is perfect for a situation and useful. The only ones I don't find useful at all is Dash and Shockwave, everything else on all levels, I need or use. On my Shadower I have Disorder, Steal, Endure could go either way, Shield Mastery and Ninja Ambush that I don't find useful at all.

On my Shadower, I get unmotivated when I see that Shadow Shifter, Taunt, Ninja Ambush and Smoke Shell all max at level 30. That's 10 levels past 130 to max each, no skill maxes at level 20. Buccaneer, Super Transformation and Speed Infusion (only need 11) are only to level 20, Corsair has Bullseye, Hypnotize and Wrath of Octopi. I'd be happy just to see Shadow Shifter and Smoke Shell go down to 20, that way, I'd max them faster, get the most benefit outta 'em faster and spend less money on skill books. Hell, make Shadow Shifter max at 10, adding 3% activation each level, we are Shadowers after all.

I'm not much for damage per second augmentation, I'm looking for a better gaming experience, more innovation in skills, instead of just pressing a button and see different numbers fly. Add more dynamic stuff like Assaulter, Assassinate, Energy Orb, Battleship, Grenade, etc.

This thread is win. Excellent points OP.

I definitely agree about the Adventurer revamp, or at least the major tweaking/defining (not the best word choice sorry) of certain skills to the point where things are actually useful.

Mostly, though, I love your comments about defense/magic defense. One of the biggest issues in this game right now is bossing HP, and the fact that plenty of people feel Nexon is a horrible business-minded company because they make it a requirement to wash non-Mage/Warrior classes in order to even survive at bosses like HT and PB. While I completely agree with that, think about this for a second: what if defense/magic defense really did play a role? How amazing would that be? You wouldn't need to worry about washing because, while you may need a certain amount, things wouldn't be able to hit you for nearly as much as they do now and you could thus survive with lower HP. On top of that, they could keep some of the wtfh4x damage they have (aka things that hit over 30k) because that 30k "initial damage" would be "reduced" with your defense/magic defense to something more manageable. Still difficult to survive for ranged classes so they'd still need to wash some, but my point is instead of having to wash up to 7.5k HP without HB they'd need 5k minimum or something to survive reverse genesis due to magic defense.

In a nutshell to those who don't want to read my paragraph, want a quick and easy solution to the washing-for-bossing crisis? Make defense/magic defense pertinent abilities to damage taken.

Yea, I think on a general sense that's a great idea.

Recently, I had a conversation like this with JoeTang and Lugin, this is what I posted:

Here's what I want.

Implement the new stuff Pirates brought to MapleStory on other classes. Such as skill charging (Corkscrew Punch) to lower job skills (I know they exist in Big Bang and Pierce), Grenade-like throwing, static summons (Octopus), "Transformations" (Transformation, Battleship), power bar charging (Energy Charge), long delays (Corkscrew Punch, Backspin Blow, Double Uppercut), invincibility (Corkscrew Punch, Barrage), etc.

Imagine if they reworked a couple of skills to use those systems, it might do wonders for some classes. Buff up my Shadower's Assassinate's last hit and make it be invincible like Corkscrew, I do not enjoy jabbing me character at high damaging monsters, praying for high avoid or Shadow Shifter to come into play, just to see a bad ass skill.

Also how Pirates can max almost all of their 1st, 2nd and 3rd job skills, makes the game feel less linear, or maybe it's because I'm forced to use almost all the skills on my Buccaneer. Each skill is perfect for a situation and useful. The only ones I don't find useful at all is Dash and Shockwave, everything else on all levels, I need or use. On my Shadower I have Disorder, Steal, Endure could go either way, Shield Mastery and Ninja Ambush that I don't find useful at all.

On my Shadower, I get unmotivated when I see that Shadow Shifter, Taunt, Ninja Ambush and Smoke Shell all max at level 30. That's 10 levels past 130 to max each, no skill maxes at level 20. Buccaneer, Super Transformation and Speed Infusion (only need 11) are only to level 20, Corsair has Bullseye, Hypnotize and Wrath of Octopi. I'd be happy just to see Shadow Shifter and Smoke Shell go down to 20, that way, I'd max them faster, get the most benefit outta 'em faster and spend less money on skill books. Hell, make Shadow Shifter max at 10, adding 3% activation each level, we are Shadowers after all.

I'm not much for damage per second augmentation, I'm looking for a better gaming experience, more innovation in skills, instead of just pressing a button and see different numbers fly. Add more dynamic stuff like Assaulter, Assassinate, Energy Orb, Battleship, Grenade, etc.

I think I posted a thread about this like half a year to a year ago. In my opinion, adventurer 3rd job is the best designed job advancement in the game (maybe barring Aran, which I don't know much about). The jobs were all quite balanced, and almost every job had interesting gameplay. 4th job was totally rushed though, you can tell that whoever designed it or whatever group of people designed it was not the same as the one that designed first through third jobs and that 3rd job was created without 4th job in mind. Why heroes even have a combo anymore is beyond me, it's basically just a damage boost now with flying pink orbs, and brandish basically destroyed axe-users, which were already at a slight disadvantage in 3rd job. Paladins become completely dependent on an elemental advantage to even keep up with heroes, and even then, it has to be lightning or holy, maybe not even fire(due to enrage). Berserk is just a terrible concept as a whole, and personal mini-priest sounds like they ran out of ideas. I don't think I have to even say anything about the magician classes. Night lords would have been okay if ninja storm and taunt were actually worth using. I think shadowers and marksmen (after the skill updates) are the two only decently well-thought out classes in 4th job because of the factor of not using only a select few (1-2, maybe 3) skills to train that makes killing stuff boring and extremely repetitive after a while. Also, as mentioned earlier, less useless skills is a huge plus.

This thread is win. Excellent points OP.

I definitely agree about the Adventurer revamp, or at least the major tweaking/defining (not the best word choice sorry) of certain skills to the point where things are actually useful.

Mostly, though, I love your comments about defense/magic defense. One of the biggest issues in this game right now is bossing HP, and the fact that plenty of people feel Nexon is a horrible business-minded company because they make it a requirement to wash non-Mage/Warrior classes in order to even survive at bosses like HT and PB. While I completely agree with that, think about this for a second: what if defense/magic defense really did play a role? How amazing would that be? You wouldn't need to worry about washing because, while you may need a certain amount, things wouldn't be able to hit you for nearly as much as they do now and you could thus survive with lower HP. On top of that, they could keep some of the wtph4x damage they have (aka things that hit over 30k) because that 30k "initial damage" would be "reduced" with your defense/magic defense to something more manageable. Still difficult to survive for ranged classes so they'd still need to wash some, but my point is instead of having to wash up to 7.5k HP without HB they'd need 5k minimum or something to survive reverse genesis due to magic defense.

In a nutshell to those who don't want to read my paragraph, want a quick and easy solution to the washing-for-bossing crisis? Make defense/magic defense pertinent abilities to damage taken.

Yea, I think on a general sense that's a great idea.

Rants about hp washing being a requirement are such a pet peeve for me... horntail and pink bean are perfectly doable at level 160/180 for a ranged class, just sub in some hp equipment when you need to take the big damages, which are such small parts of those two fights. Tail and wings make up quite a small portion of the whole fight, and for pink bean, the only time you actually need more than like 5.5k hp after HB is to cross the map when the statues are up, so technically since you can completely load up on hp equipment at that point, the hp requirement for PB is probably even lower than horntail. People are putting way too much pressure on others to hp wash.

4th job was totally rushed though, you can tell that whoever designed it or whatever group of people designed it was not the same as the one that designed first through third jobs and that 3rd job was created without 4th job in mind.

I agree on the 4th job introduction. Whatever attempts were made pre-4th job to diversify gameplay with different weapons and skill builds was completely thrown away with the 4th job. Axes, blunt weapons and pole-arms rendered completely useless.

It's not to say that coming up with different skills for the above mentioned weapons is hard as well - look at the Aran class, it's basically what could have been of the pole-arm users in the DK community. Unfortunately pole-arm DKs don't exist anymore.

During the Tespia stages of 4th job I predicted that Genesis would not only be efficient for training, but would also bring in income. I got a hell lot of flak for that till today, but am I at least partially right 2 years on? I'd say I am. The ulti skills for the magicians were just a really poor and sloppy thought IMO. The idea of changing the environment to suit one's self is much better, but the Demon+Summon combo is very under-used (fixed typo). The summons should have been the other way around anyway, fire mages should summon Ifrit, using Fire Demon to bring the advantage to himself.

I agree on the 4th job introduction. Whatever attempts were made pre-4th job to diversify gameplay with different weapons and skill builds was completely thrown away with the 4th job. Axes, blunt weapons and pole-arms rendered completely useless.

It's not to say that coming up with different skills for the above mentioned weapons is hard as well - look at the Aran class, it's basically what could have been of the pole-arm users in the DK community. Unfortunately pole-arm DKs don't exist anymore.

During the Tespia stages of 4th job I predicted that Genesis would not only be efficient for training, but would also bring in income. I got a hell lot of flak for that till today, but am I at least partially right 2 years on? I'd say I am. The ulti skills for the magicians were just a really poor and sloppy thought IMO. The idea of changing the environment to suit one's self is much better, but the Demon+Summon combo is very used. The summons should have been the other way around anyway, fire mages should summon Ifrit, using Fire Demon to bring the advantage to himself.

[color="#cc8899"]
This. People have been expecting changes to adventurers for quite a while to make them a bit stronger and to limit "X class is only good at Y." Instead, we get Cygnus. Polearm users BEG for some bossing ability, and instead we are given Aran, which not only outshine us at bosses, but at mobbing as well. Nexon's answer to things seems to be to simply abandon old classes and create new ones.[/COLOR]

I dont give up hope. I do what i can to make nexon realize that Brandish should be 2 swings, and that it would revolutionize the Hero class if they did. (On that note, Blast should be calculated as a swing as well. Considering how slow BW are)

Imagine, 2-hand axes being 4% stronger than swords, but 2-hand fast(5) swords being 8% faster than axes.

For 1-hand, the axe is 10% stronger. The swords are then 8% faster, or 19% faster depending on which sword you use.

I will live to see the day Heros are fixed.

Oh don't you know? Pretty soon Nexon will make game nx based where only people with massive nx will have good equips and items.

Disorder. *cries*

Oh don't you know? Pretty soon Nexon will make game nx based where only people with massive nx will have good equips and items.

I think your game is lagging...by about 2 years.

I think Marksman could do with some more tweaking...like make Snipe fire fast enough so it replace Strafe as out regular 4th job attack.

(On that note, Blast should be calculated as a swing as well. Considering how slow BW are)

Blast is calculated by the 3/2 Swing/Stab ratio, despite the fact that its animation is a stab. If you made the attack nothing but swings, that would VASTLY overpower the BW class, considering they already have a 1h BW with 115 att clean, even higher than almost any 1h sword. I DO however agree that they should do something for axe users.

Paladins become completely dependent on an elemental advantage to even keep up with heroes, and even then, it has to be lightning or holy, maybe not even fire(due to enrage).

[COLOR="Green"]We had to rely on elemental advantage as WK in order to even stand a chance against Saders. And back then you could only use lit, the hardest to find elemental weakness, since Fire only made our damages become equal. Now you know why nobody seemed to start jumping on the Pally bandwagon until they made 4th job, and then gave us PB.

[color="#cc8899"]
This. People have been expecting changes to adventurers for quite a while to make them a bit stronger and to limit "X class is only good at Y." Instead, we get Cygnus. Polearm users BEG for some bossing ability, and instead we are given Aran, which not only outshine us at bosses, but at mobbing as well. Nexon's answer to things seems to be to simply abandon old classes and create new ones.[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Green"]This. They took all the classes and just made them 10x better in order to try to appease everyone. I can barely find fun in playing my DW, considering that there's thousands of them, and that by level 120, he could outdamage my Paladin times over for at least 10 levels.

I also would like some sort of restriction to the power of NL, considering that they not only have the highest avoid, but then get an ability that simply lets them not get hit a certain % of the time. Keep that skill only for the Shadowers, who actually need it.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

This is something that bugs me as well - they try, with varying colors and whatnot, but weapons and shields have little to no real differences beyond 1 or 2 stats (excepting bows/xbows/claws). Then again, the stat structure doesn't allow for much...

Yep, the only thing that would really solve this is a complete re-working of the stat systems. The skills added by reverse weapons are a nice touch, but it's still far too little really.

.

I agree with most of this post, except I don't think 3rd job was very balanced either. MS has never been well-balanced. The closest we've ever been to having a balanced game was when the skill updates rolled around.

3rd job was ALL Dragon Knights and Hermits and Priests. Seriously, Crusaders fit about where BMs fit now in terms of DPS, but without a buff like SE. Snipers were okay, but not played as much. Rangers were inferior to Snipers in pretty much every way. They were both well designed classes, though. F/Ps could train fast, but had pretty much no means of damage output comparable to any other class on bosses or poison-res monsters. CBs were terrible except for the fact that they had ME. Apples pretty much made that useless.

4th job was horrible when it initially came out, but balance updates have made Marksmen and Shadowers much less useless. I agree that they are the two most well-designed classes not counting the Pirates, but they were pretty awful at first. It really bugs me that the "best" classes in the game are almost always the ones that only have one awesome attack that they spam over and over again.

It really bugs me that the "best" classes in the game are almost always the ones that only have one awesome attack that they spam over and over again.

Call me petty, but I actually enjoy that. I like the fact that when I go make a Bucc for the fun skill combos, the class also isn't completely overpopulated with damage whores inflating my stuff and whatnot. It creates separate spaces for the stat oriented and the people who don't enjoy DPS as much.

I'd be very happy if these Aran people turned out to be utterly mediocre. Or at least had horrible first/ second jobs (Oh boy that was a godsend for Corsairs).
Unfortunately it doesn't look that way...

I agree with most of this post, except I don't think 3rd job was very balanced either. MS has never been well-balanced. The closest we've ever been to having a balanced game was when the skill updates rolled around.

3rd job was ALL Dragon Knights and Hermits and Priests.

Well Priests have been faster since 1st job so that's really no surprise. I mean Magician subclass is 40%+ of total players at all level ranges, and most of them are Cleric/Priest/Bishops. For the first 3 jobs that was balanced by the fact that while they gained exp fast, they couldn't do single-target dps well and had to party other classes to get the dps-component of their fast exp.

On the whole, 3rd job wasn't perfectly balanced but it was far closer than 4th. At most you might have a class training 50% faster, now it's no big surprise that low-tier classes get 6-8m/hr and top get 18+m/hr on 1x.

And it's not just affecting 4th job, due to the party system it screws up 3rd job as well. I mean, what's the fastest place for a level 76 adventurer to train? On a rope at harps. To me, that says there's something wrong with 4th job & map balance.