2008-07-03, 12:49 PM (This post was last modified: 2008-07-03, 12:55 PM by Devil.)
Skylit Wrote:Yay my shadower looks useless now.
I agree with you, after seeing the Papulatus vid, I conclude Nexon made this class too overpowered...
LOL -every-, I repeat, EVERY other class just got owned of being more usefull in ANY way at bosses...
- 6 Vipers partying = 6x Cooldown cancelled of Super Transform... -.-
- Apparently, Windbooster makes demolition have DK's Crusher speed with no cooldown like Bstep. Altough I'm not sure if Bstep will get speeded up with Wind Booster the same way though...
Anyway, at bosses, say goodbye to:
- Night Lords (Weak HP - Need HB to survive at HT / Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Hero's (Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Paladins (Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Dark Knights (Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party / No need for HB, Viper parties have lots of HP from themselves)
- Bowmasters (Weak HP - Need HB to survive at HT / Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Crossbowmasters (Weak HP - Need HB to survive at HT / Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Mage classes (Don't even start, they do like 1/10th damage of a Transformed Viper Party at bosses...)
Semi - usefull classes to party with Vipers:
- Bishops - Are only needed for revive, if some Viper lags a bit and died because of that... Maybe usefull at Horntail...maybe...
- Shadowers - CAN be semi usefull for Vipers - 1x Smokescreen + 5x Time Leap results in 6 minutes of godmode. If 5 Vipers + 1 Shadower can kill a boss in 6 minutes, then they don't need -ANY- HP pots (Ultra Cheap Bossing!).
- Sharp Eyes classes - No real need for SE, 1 extra Viper = 1 extra Timeleap row of 5 Vipers for Super Transform - Super Transform = more damage then SE. Although, they are not completely useless like all other classes... Besides that, bringing 1 SE mule, means also that you need a HB mule too at Horntail, resulting in 2 less Vipers for Time Leap... a no-go for Horntail scenario I guess...
----------------------
Let me project a Viper party with Time Leap + Super Transform + Demolition:
Resulting in:
- At the start - 10 minutes continuous "Super Transform + Demolition" of 6 Vipers
- After the first Time Leap: 16 out of every 20 minutes "Super Transform + Demolition" of 6 Vipers
- After the first Time Leap: 4 out of every 20 minutes normal attacking with "First"
-- The 16 out of 20 minutes "Super Transform + Demolition" can be repeated till the boss is dead.
Conclusion:
For as far as I can see now, when Vipers will come to gMS (Note: Players need to train to lvl 120 first also...), they're always more valuable at high level bosses then ANY other classes today...
I hope I'm wrong about this, but I hardly doubt it...
2008-07-03, 01:32 PM (This post was last modified: 2008-07-04, 01:24 AM by Skylit.)
Devil Wrote:I agree with you, after seeing the Papulatus vid, I conclude Nexon made this class too overpowered...
LOL -every-, I repeat, EVERY other class just got owned of being more usefull in ANY way at bosses...
- 6 Vipers partying = 6x Cooldown cancelled of Super Transform... -.-
- Apparently, Windbooster makes demolition have DK's Crusher speed with no cooldown like Bstep. Altough I'm not sure if Bstep will get speeded up with Wind Booster the same way though...
Bstep wont possibly because your using a FAST 4 or 3 dagger, and with 3 being the fastest speed which aint even different from a fast 4 dagger w/ booster. yea shadowers get fucked over by pirates. f fucking 7
Windbooster
hero w/ normal speed high attack swords.. are hax w/ pirates. (normal 6)
NL's most likely wont get any speed boost due to fast 3 being the fastest. so its w/e (Fast 4)
Bowmaster mite get a speed boost w/ SoA (Normal 5)
lol marksman w/ strafe. GG (normal 5)
even Drk's will do more DPS then shadowers rofl. (slow 7)
conclusion: Im not sure, but Im positive (faster 3) is the highest speed possible atm unless nexon changes that, which in theory wont effect claws and daggers Since max speed is shared with fast 4 and faster 3 with daggers/claws using booster.
Devil Wrote:I agree with you, after seeing the Papulatus vid, I conclude Nexon made this class too overpowered...
LOL -every-, I repeat, EVERY other class just got owned of being more usefull in ANY way at bosses...
- 6 Vipers partying = 6x Cooldown cancelled of Super Transform... -.-
- Apparently, Windbooster makes demolition have DK's Crusher speed with no cooldown like Bstep. Altough I'm not sure if Bstep will get speeded up with Wind Booster the same way though...
Anyway, at bosses, say goodbye to:
- Night Lords (Weak HP - Need HB to survive at HT / Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Hero's (Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Paladins (Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Dark Knights (Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party / No need for HB, Viper parties have lots of HP from themselves)
- Bowmasters (Weak HP - Need HB to survive at HT / Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Crossbowmasters (Weak HP - Need HB to survive at HT / Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Mage classes (Don't even start, they do like 1/10th damage of a Transformed Viper Party at bosses...)
Semi - usefull classes to party with Vipers:
- Bishops - Are only needed for revive, if some Viper lags a bit and died because of that... Maybe usefull at Horntail...maybe...
- Shadowers - CAN be semi usefull for Vipers - 1x Smokescreen + 5x Time Leap results in 6 minutes of godmode. If 5 Vipers + 1 Shadower can kill a boss in 6 minutes, then they don't need -ANY- HP pots (Ultra Cheap Bossing!).
- Sharp Eyes classes - No real need for SE, 1 extra Viper = 1 extra Timeleap row of 5 Vipers for Super Transform - Super Transform = more damage then SE. Although, they are not completely useless like all other classes... Besides that, bringing 1 SE mule, means also that you need a HB mule too at Horntail, resulting in 2 less Vipers for Time Leap... a no-go for Horntail scenario I guess...
----------------------
Let me project a Viper party with Time Leap + Super Transform + Demolition:
Resulting in:
- At the start - 10 minutes continuous "Super Transform + Demolition" of 6 Vipers
- After the first Time Leap: 16 out of every 20 minutes "Super Transform + Demolition" of 6 Vipers
- After the first Time Leap: 4 out of every 20 minutes normal attacking with "First"
-- The 16 out of 20 minutes "Super Transform + Demolition" can be repeated till the boss is dead.
Conclusion:
For as far as I can see now, when Vipers will come to gMS (Note: Players need to train to lvl 120 first also...), they're always more valuable at high level bosses then ANY other classes today...
I hope I'm wrong about this, but I hardly doubt it...
[COLOR="Black"]
I doubt that Vipers would take over anything anytime soon, or at all. To be able to use the strategy that you've thought up, you'd need a team of at least 6 Level 160+ Vipers. They're a good boss class, yes, but they won't be taking over anything.[/COLOR]
2008-07-03, 09:07 PM (This post was last modified: 2008-07-03, 09:11 PM by DrRusty.)
Apollo Wrote:Wow those things look pretty awesome.. they make shadowers look like nothing =/
sure they're strong, but I'm not to sure about making "shadowers look like nothing" lol. If you add up all the damage that demolition does, its actually only around 80k -100k per attack and its hardly anything I would consider fast. I think we're forgetting that assassinate can easily go to 99,999 x 4 at the same lvl as them. Even without a charge, assassinate will still do 20k-30k each hit x 4 (adds up to over 100k per assassinate) and spamming assassinate is faster than spamming demolition.
Ohsnap!
I paused it at 00:33, and that hit is 94k damage, total. o__o
Another oddity, the damage grows as it gets higher. The lowest damage spacially is the lowest damage numerically. o_o
Devil Wrote:I agree with you, after seeing the Papulatus vid, I conclude Nexon made this class too overpowered...
Spoiler
LOL -every-, I repeat, EVERY other class just got owned of being more usefull in ANY way at bosses...
- 6 Vipers partying = 6x Cooldown cancelled of Super Transform... -.-
- Apparently, Windbooster makes demolition have DK's Crusher speed with no cooldown like Bstep. Altough I'm not sure if Bstep will get speeded up with Wind Booster the same way though...
Anyway, at bosses, say goodbye to:
- Night Lords (Weak HP - Need HB to survive at HT / Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Hero's (Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Paladins (Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Dark Knights (Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party / No need for HB, Viper parties have lots of HP from themselves)
- Bowmasters (Weak HP - Need HB to survive at HT / Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Crossbowmasters (Weak HP - Need HB to survive at HT / Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Mage classes (Don't even start, they do like 1/10th damage of a Transformed Viper Party at bosses...)
Semi - usefull classes to party with Vipers:
- Bishops - Are only needed for revive, if some Viper lags a bit and died because of that... Maybe usefull at Horntail...maybe...
- Shadowers - CAN be semi usefull for Vipers - 1x Smokescreen + 5x Time Leap results in 6 minutes of godmode. If 5 Vipers + 1 Shadower can kill a boss in 6 minutes, then they don't need -ANY- HP pots (Ultra Cheap Bossing!).
- Sharp Eyes classes - No real need for SE, 1 extra Viper = 1 extra Timeleap row of 5 Vipers for Super Transform - Super Transform = more damage then SE. Although, they are not completely useless like all other classes... Besides that, bringing 1 SE mule, means also that you need a HB mule too at Horntail, resulting in 2 less Vipers for Time Leap... a no-go for Horntail scenario I guess...
----------------------
Let me project a Viper party with Time Leap + Super Transform + Demolition:
Resulting in:
- At the start - 10 minutes continuous "Super Transform + Demolition" of 6 Vipers
- After the first Time Leap: 16 out of every 20 minutes "Super Transform + Demolition" of 6 Vipers
- After the first Time Leap: 4 out of every 20 minutes normal attacking with "First"
-- The 16 out of 20 minutes "Super Transform + Demolition" can be repeated till the boss is dead.
Conclusion:
For as far as I can see now, when Vipers will come to gMS (Note: Players need to train to lvl 120 first also...), they're always more valuable at high level bosses then ANY other classes today...
I hope I'm wrong about this, but I hardly doubt it...
Huge quote, had to put it in a Spoiler. :/
I see your point, but it all depends on how much damage Vipers can really pull off, compared to other classes. We need that guy with the Dex Capping Debate Thread to add in Night Lords and Heroes for a measurement bar.
hero w/ normal speed high attack swords.. are hax w/ pirates. (normal 6)
conclusion: Im not sure, but Im positive (faster 3) is the highest speed possible atm unless nexon changes that, which in theory wont effect claws and daggers Since max speed is shared with fast 4 and faster 3 with daggers/claws using booster.
wee gg nexon f7
If you're right about this, I'm rather pissed off at the fact I've spent millions on scrolling red katana's only for it to become useless at bosses?
[COLOR="Black"]The same guy that uploaded theese Viper videos uploaded a Captain video. It demonstrates some good Captain tactics and shows what a Captain can really do imo. Since the embedding seems to not be working for me, I'll just post the link.
Sora Wrote:[COLOR="Black"]The same guy that uploaded theese Viper videos uploaded a Captain video. It demonstrates some good Captain tactics and shows what a Captain can really do imo. Since the embedding seems to not be working for me, I'll just post the link.
Sora Wrote:[COLOR="Black"]The same guy that uploaded theese Viper videos uploaded a Captain video. It demonstrates some good Captain tactics and shows what a Captain can really do imo. Since the embedding seems to not be working for me, I'll just post the link.
they dont look as good as bowmasters or NLs at single target damage, and their full map attack isnt as strong as mages but its stronger than dragon roar. I still think viper > captain
Devil Wrote:I agree with you, after seeing the Papulatus vid, I conclude Nexon made this class too overpowered...
LOL -every-, I repeat, EVERY other class just got owned of being more usefull in ANY way at bosses...
- 6 Vipers partying = 6x Cooldown cancelled of Super Transform... -.-
- Apparently, Windbooster makes demolition have DK's Crusher speed with no cooldown like Bstep. Altough I'm not sure if Bstep will get speeded up with Wind Booster the same way though...
Anyway, at bosses, say goodbye to:
- Night Lords (Weak HP - Need HB to survive at HT / Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Hero's (Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Paladins (Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Dark Knights (Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party / No need for HB, Viper parties have lots of HP from themselves)
- Bowmasters (Weak HP - Need HB to survive at HT / Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Crossbowmasters (Weak HP - Need HB to survive at HT / Lower dps compared to Super Transformed Viper party)
- Mage classes (Don't even start, they do like 1/10th damage of a Transformed Viper Party at bosses...)
Semi - usefull classes to party with Vipers:
- Bishops - Are only needed for revive, if some Viper lags a bit and died because of that... Maybe usefull at Horntail...maybe...
- Shadowers - CAN be semi usefull for Vipers - 1x Smokescreen + 5x Time Leap results in 6 minutes of godmode. If 5 Vipers + 1 Shadower can kill a boss in 6 minutes, then they don't need -ANY- HP pots (Ultra Cheap Bossing!).
- Sharp Eyes classes - No real need for SE, 1 extra Viper = 1 extra Timeleap row of 5 Vipers for Super Transform - Super Transform = more damage then SE. Although, they are not completely useless like all other classes... Besides that, bringing 1 SE mule, means also that you need a HB mule too at Horntail, resulting in 2 less Vipers for Time Leap... a no-go for Horntail scenario I guess...
----------------------
Let me project a Viper party with Time Leap + Super Transform + Demolition:
Resulting in:
- At the start - 10 minutes continuous "Super Transform + Demolition" of 6 Vipers
- After the first Time Leap: 16 out of every 20 minutes "Super Transform + Demolition" of 6 Vipers
- After the first Time Leap: 4 out of every 20 minutes normal attacking with "First"
-- The 16 out of 20 minutes "Super Transform + Demolition" can be repeated till the boss is dead.
Conclusion:
For as far as I can see now, when Vipers will come to gMS (Note: Players need to train to lvl 120 first also...), they're always more valuable at high level bosses then ANY other classes today...
I hope I'm wrong about this, but I hardly doubt it...
Spoiler
Eh, does anyone have the damage formula for these classes?
I kind of find it hard to believe this is anything good, the attack is just to slow, it looks like you can throw off like 3 TT's before it can respam the attack once again, there's just no way they will be the new power house of bossing. And lol@warriors who went 1hand.
Eh, does anyone have the damage formula for these classes?
I kind of find it hard to believe this is anything good, the attack is just to slow, it looks like you can throw off like 3 TT's before it can respam the attack once again, there's just no way they will be the new power house of bossing. And lol@warriors who went 1hand.
I dont know what u meant about lol@warriors who went 1hand. Sure vipers are pretty strong, but they can't stay super transformed forever. Even when they are super transformed, demolition is just to slow to outdmg every other class. Even heros with a Fast sword (ribgol, 1H sword) I think can outdamage them.
Hell, this guys doing 50k per brandish, while those vipers are doing 100k per demolition. I'm pretty sure 2 brandish's are faster than 1 demolition.
For the guy lol'ing at Heroes that went 1H, the guy that posted in this topic that has a Red Katana can hit 60k brandishes with it, so uh, lol heroes that stayed 2h imo.
Anyway, these videos actually kinda disappoint me. I was thinking about making an infighter, but if there 4th jobs are as boring as they look, why bother... I thought they'd at least have some variety, but they are the same as every other class, except they all look the same too thanks to super transform...
About damage / second - That hero in the video is lvl 174, the highest Viper is lvl 165
I just did some timings:
- In 2 seconds a 2 handed hero can attack 3 times with brandish (6 attacks)
- It takes a Viper 2 seconds to attack 1x with Demolition, that are 8 attacks, not 6 (!!!)
So as far as I can see, Super transformed Viper Party's do more dps AND are ranged too...
Don't forget that you need a Viper party to do this continuous Super Transform + Time Leap thing, but still, their damage is the highest I've seen so far... 75k dmg / second (without criticals) = insane...
I also thought Vipers can do critical damage with demolition when they stun the monster, but since bosses can't be stunned, they can't do criticals to them...
