Liar Tree Sap 100%

At any rate, he was testing if your speculations were correct, which they were. Before that, they were just that - speculations. If it was known and proven that white slating indeed worked that way, I doubt he would have gone to the trouble of testing it.

Then if they indeed worked that way, (which they did), then the "better safe than sorry" doesn't apply? How's this not equate to poisoned water then?

Really, a whole page has filled up here since your reply to mine so I wont quote the whole damn thing. I'll just mention what I remember:

For clean slates, there might've been a few others who thought it was a feature, but I vaguely remember it being pretty overwhelming with belief of it being a glitch.

As for why I tried it, as you said yourself, we never knew how it worked or if it'd work at all. We devised a theory and tested it and it magically worked. I didnt abuse any glitch because I didnt know of any glitch existing there. Once I found out that such a glitch indeed existed, I stopped doing it. That's the difference between you and I: While you did the "glitch" knowingly, I did it without previous knowledge of it being so.

No. But let's say xxxx get's a name change and becomes yyyy. Can you say yyyy hacked before without evidence?

What I have to say to this doesnt matter; I was talking about a relationship between nexon and a given player (the player hacking doesnt concern me... its not doing any damage to me for the most part, while he isnt playing by the rules, it really isnt any of my buisness, I dont run the game, I dont govenrn the game, those who do will deal with the sitaution). What you're saying is that whether something is a glitch or not is based on results. What Im saying is that that shouldnt be an accurate way to judge whether or not something is "okay to do". If a cop catches me speeding but out of sympathy lets me go, does that mean its okay to speed? Does that mean that speeding isnt against the law? (I know that this doesnt pertain to glitch status as its not set in stone, but what Im pointing at is "Do the results govern the status of a specific action... just pointing this out as you have a tendency to completely miss my point and answer in a completely different direction... I dont know if that's on purpose or not, but you have no wait to avoid it either way now)


A few extra non-quoted, related points:

1. @ The 3 million exp snail example, it has actually happened, but in MSEA. I remember a while ago, their maple island had a quest that gave hundreds of millions or something along those lines and some people abused it by making multiple characters to continue doing the quest, then transfering the mesos. Asiasoft didnt make an announcement about that at the time so can we argue it wasnt a glitch? In the end, they froze all related accounts and banned many of them. There are times when glitches are just so blatantly obvious that you cant call it any other way other than use the "they never said so" excuse. Go figure.

2. This is something I just thought of since my last post so I'll say it now: IF this is indeed a feature and not a glitch, why do these saps expire on April 8th? Your gach noses last forever, so why should the "steroid scrolls" for the nose disappear on the 8th which... hmmm, "coincidentally" expire on the exact same day as this temporary nose quest! hmmm, can you connect the two dots here? I sure cant!

3. After refreshing the board, I see Russt has addressed exactly what I was saying above. Yes, I drank the water and took the risk to see if it was poisoned. It indeed was and I drank no more from it. You however on the other hand...drank, knowing it was poisoned.

Then if they indeed worked that way, (which they did), then the "better safe than sorry" doesn't apply? How's this not equate to poisoned water then?

Intent.

Harrisonized, you disapointed me for once on this reply.. as usual you took from my msg everything you could build from to make your point but yet you forget the first line: the pickpocket bug in kMS. Be honest with yourself, I couldn't actually care less because I right with myself, but are you with yourslef, I mean are you really with yourself:

come on: Nexon really on purpose make BF poisonable, make CB earnt billions per snails, make you +50 slots on shoes with spike shoe scroll, make Hermit eanrt millions of exp when Bodyguard was Shadow-webable a couple year ago in jMS, make jMSer earnt billions in tradeMS hack etc...

don't push yourself too hard it'll start to be really pathetic if it's not already.

You present a good argument. I'll lay off with the assumptions, I guess, though it greatly bothers me when someone forces me to "assume" that this is a glitch because it is "common sense".

Okay, Nexon defined a glitch to be "an unintended feature'. You sir sitting here arguing whether they're intended for something like this to happen or not, and since you believe in "innocent until proven guilty", I guess that translates to "intended until Nexon said otherwise". So yes, did Nexon intended to make white scrolls stacked with clean slate scrolls? Did Nexon intended to make BF the way it was? Did Nexon intended to make scrolls dupable? etc. Common sense, (as well as programming logic) said no. So you sir can sleep happy with your strong belief that it isnt a glitch, while we're expressing our strong belief that it is. You're not willing to bend your view so stop expecting us to bend ours. You fully aware of what you're doing indeed and Nexon makes the call at the end of the day.

That kind of logic generally drives me to think in the opposite direction.Equips may have ID numbers, but perhaps not. Wouldn't it save more space to have ALL equipment that are (exactly) 5luk 36atk 2def Blue Scarabs share the same ID number? Then if you use a scroll to alter the stats, then the ID number changes.

For example:
Nexon makes an ID number for each of the Blue Rabs:
4~6 LUK
32~37 atk
0~2 def
That's 54 ID numbers for 54 different items.
Now when a scroll is used, more ID numbers are generated until the item is destroyed, in which event the item's ID number would vanish until by chance the ID number is revived.

Well, if all rabs with the same stats say has the same ID, then how are you mapping it to a player? It's pretty obvious they have different ID, because you cannot "stack" equips. When an equip is destined to drop, its properties get generated off a base, thus values changed. Items from quests, such as the deputy star have fixed stats, but many players has them, so with just 1 id, how much works are needed to distinguish which belongs to whom?

This is only my theory. Since there are hundreds of equips, potentially thousands, then it'd make more sense to have such shared ID numbers?Seriously, stop saying I favor one view. That's like saying Atheism is a religion when it's the lack of religion.

Your theory is wrong.

I'm presenting more than one ways to view this situations to tell people to stop assuming. The way I view this is that sapping your branch nose is a function of the game. It does that regardless of intention. Nonglitch is merely a label because we cannot assume it's a glitch.

You have your view and we have ours. You ask people to STOP assuming, and yet you're doing the verything you asked. Your point of view assumes that Nexon intended for things to be that way. Our point of view said it's unintended. After all, how could something designed to work on one set of items would work on another set as an intended feature? Again, you're not going to bend on your view, and so are we. Stop enforcing.

Equips have ID numbers. I can't think how else they would manage so many equips with different stats. If you were to dupe equips, it should theoretically be possible to purge the database of all equips with the same ID numbers. Stacks of items are stacks of items, though.

You present a good argument. I'll lay off with the assumptions, I guess, though it greatly bothers me when someone forces me to "assume" that this is a glitch because it is "common sense". That kind of logic generally drives me to think in the opposite direction.

Equips may have ID numbers, but perhaps not. Wouldn't it save more space to have ALL equipment that are (exactly) 5luk 36atk 2def Blue Scarabs share the same ID number? Then if you use a scroll to alter the stats, then the ID number changes.

For example:
Nexon makes an ID number for each of the Blue Rabs:
4~6 LUK
32~37 atk
0~2 def
That's 54 ID numbers for 54 different items.
Now when a scroll is used, more ID numbers are generated until the item is destroyed, in which event the item's ID number would vanish until by chance the ID number is revived.

This is only my theory. Since there are hundreds of equips, potentially thousands, then it'd make more sense to have such shared ID numbers?

Okay, Nexon defined a glitch to be "an unintended feature'. You sir sitting here arguing whether they're intended for something like this to happen or not, and since you believe in "innocent until proven guilty", I guess that translates to "intended until Nexon said otherwise". So yes, did Nexon intended to make white scrolls stacked with clean slate scrolls? Did Nexon intended to make BF the way it was? Did Nexon intended to make scrolls dupable? etc. Common sense, (as well as programming logic) said no. So you sir can sleep happy with your strong belief that it isnt a glitch, while we're expressing our strong belief that it is. You're not willing to bend your view so stop expecting us to bend ours. You fully aware of what you're doing indeed and Nexon makes the call at the end of the day.



Well, if all rabs with the same stats say has the same ID, then how are you mapping it to a player? It's pretty obvious they have different ID, because you cannot "stack" equips. When an equip is destined to drop, its properties get generated off a base, thus values changed. Items from quests, such as the deputy star have fixed stats, but many players has them, so with just 1 id, how much works are needed to distinguish which belongs to whom?



Your theory is wrong.

Harrisonized, I would believe what you mention would take less space than having an ID for each item.

Also, sending a hash to your comp, generating object-stats would be no problem GummyBear. Also, I don't see where you need to distinguish those items from others, but that's on the assumption that these items are saved in the Equips-section in an array with a hash-key.

And again guys, don't say things as if it were a fact, unless you have proper proof.

Edit: Hmm, it sounds like I'm with Harrisonized. Well...
I like to apply common sense to this situation whether other people like it or not. Nexon decides what to do if or when they find out, assuming this is a glitch. But predicting what Nexon would do in this situation, or if they would do anything at all, is based on your common sense. Common sense varies from people to people, based on experience, knowledge etc. etc, so yeah...

Oh and yeah. It's morally wrong to abuse a glitch unless everyone does it. Just thought I'd hit you guys up with that.

Don't include flame-like witticisms. I experience enough of that during the day.

kkz.

That's great. It's unfortunate that your view of this is so pessimistic.

It's also factual. In case you're wondering where my pessimism comes from, it's because I've had to fend for myself more than once. Life for me was not all sunshine and lollipops.

Again, don't use sarcasm on me.

How am I not suppose to use "sarcasm" if I'm dealing with a guy that can't look the right way? People can do the darnedest things everyday.

I responded to your example in which you told me there was a can of Sprite and after drinking the can, you told me there was HCl in the can. That's trickery.

I mentioned tree saps because that's what this thread is about. I can't see any link to tree saps either. You're merely trying to attack my beliefs about the Bigfoot glitch rather than addressing what this thread originally was about, which is the tree sap situation.

You must have brought up the BF glitch believing it to be relevant to Tree Saps. We're just taking it one step further down the conversational tree. Also, the OP left the thread to be pretty open, since all he did was say "Didn't see a thread on it..." and posted a picture of a Tree Sap. All interpretations and related shyts are go!

I seem to forget a vital word in my haste: may. Sorry about that. Please reread the quote with my edit:

That's a little better xD

Then please explain why the many of the wolf spider hackers don't get banned until their 17x, HT cave is still killed by hackers, and why the FM can be freely DCed. Nexon may be more naive than you think.

They might be naive, but they aren't incredibly stupid.

The FM DC situation is... well, really hard to stop before it happens. Do you have any suggestions?

Allow me to demonstrate a useful strategy for banning h4x0rz (I suspect Nexon does this as well). People know that the goal of most h4x0rz is to lvl up ludicrously fast and get as much mesos as possible. To do this, they need to kill monsters. But they could kill any kind of monster. Popular training maps are great choices for this, due to low HP/exp ratios, excellent drops, or a combination of the two. Odds are good that there will be h4x0rz in those training areas, and the continued presence of h4x0rz in given "hot spots", while disparaging to the legit user population, gives h4x0rz the assurance that they can get away with whatever they are doing. This, however, does not give them the guarantee that Nexon hasn't caught them in the act. Nexon knows they have it coming now; it's just a matter of banning them soon and eventually, but preferably not in a manner obvious to others. In doing this covertly, Nexon can "bait" other, different h4x0r individuals into the same hot spots and keep tabs on them as well. In the meantime between phases, they scout out reports from unpopular regions of the world and catch h4x0rz who hope to evade detection by doing their business in places where no one looks. The eventual message they want to get across is that they will be caught, no matter what. This doesn't stop the most stubborn and arrogant people though.

Ultimately, Nexon wants to find a programming solution to patch up the h4x. Initial behavior study on the game simulation is useful in determining what exploit they are using in order to h4x the game. If Nexon just banned every h4x0r on the spot without observing what's going on, they won't learn anything useful.

And while all that drama is going on, GMs have to respond to all other types of reports, as well as fulfill their other duties as employees such as playing customer service reps (somewhat doubtful, but who knows).

Another factor contributing to lack of response is that, while we know what's going on, GMs aren't in on the loop, and are fairly slow on picking up all of our ambiguous signals until someone somewhere raises the alarm and says "I've had enough". Sure, we talk about h4x0rz in guild chat or w/e, but GMs won't necessarily be able to spy on that, or pick it out later if they have convo logs (doubtful).

Yet another factor contributing to lack of GM response and presence is economics. (this is one huge balancing act, but I will only go over one topic.) In Nexon's interest, they want to squeeze as much productivity off of their employees as possible. Let's say it takes 30 GMs to stave off h4x0rz in an epidemic, such as PG h4xing epidemic, in order to keep a good proportion of the users happy. Then say that the code monkeys found a solution to stop ALL PG h4x0rz, which makes h4xing practically non-existent. Then that's a good 15 GMs who are being paid to do nothing but sit on their asses all day (relatively conservative estimate). Nexon's losing money! Nexon isn't there to just serve our asses either, they're in it for the money. So what they're looking for is a good balance of GMs that can keep a sufficient amount of users happy during h4xing epidemics (gl with that) while still getting their money's worth when h4xing becomes virtually zero in an on-off cycle of h4xes.

They could. Hypothetically, they could ban you for anything they find incorrect, terminate your service at any time for any reason, according to the ToS, but if they do that, it would be very bad publicity.

That is true, they're better off being conservative. But with certain individuals, they can just perma ban them and call the job finished with little to no negative impact.

Eh? It's more like logic. Math proofs have nothing to do with this.

Logic and math pretty much go hand in hand. It's words that causes error of interpretation, thus the birth of the field of logic. Logic is the science that attempts to define something as objectively as possible as to leave little room for false interpretation. Math proofs do very much the same thing, only its foundations are based off of other proofs, and ultimately abstract foundations such as numbers.

You keep referencing the Bigfoot glitch and the Clean Slate glitch. That's hindsight, because now you know it's a glitch.

I never mentioned the Clean Slate glitch. Also, stop putting yourself in the future and put yourself in the present of a situation. According to you, big government decisions and political judgment in court are all baloney because they use hindsight to solve their disputes.

And as for my views on BF before it was announced to be a glitch, I thought it was highly suspicious that a 32 million HP monster could be taken out in a matter of a minute or two, on top of giving out 2.66 million exp. That's just game-breaking and really lopsidedly favorable the classes that do have %-based HP-damaging abilities. Any decently respectful gaming company wouldn't allow that to happen (if you disagree with this, feel free to explain), so therefore that must be a mistake by Nexon and therefore a glitch (more like an oversight imo).

The point isn't the slot machine, it's looking back to say that you shouldn't have, could have.

Again, try predicting something sometime. Play a game of chess if you have to.

No.

Lazy eh? (to put it lightly)

Really I don't know why many of the people feel they must attack me on something that happened in the past when this thread has nothing to do with them.

Because we the people feel there is something wrong with your morals and feel that we must correct it. Or something. Could be arrogance. For me, my issue with you is that you're displaying lots of "American" ignorance.

If silence speaks conformity, yes.

What if silence doesn't speak conformity? What if silence is better than noise, like sitting on the lid of a boiling pot as politicians (referring to pre-Civil War politics on slavery)? Nexon was silent on some h4x0r epidemics. Did Nexon approve of them?

My id is well repressed. I laugh, because I have no greedy intentions.

Too late to prove that.

If I did, would I have only killed bigfoot to assist my friends in gaining toes?

If you did this without poison, then I forgive you. Otherwise, you're interpreting something for your convenience.

Would I have used 400m to gain 1int on my cape and risk getting banned when I could have gotten an egg on my HTP with the same amount of money?

Again, interpretation for your convenience. You feared that Nexon was going to fix the "exploit" (and I heard that they did). Whatever opportunity you took, it was something that doesn't come as often as getting an egg for your Pendant.

If I did, would I even bother arguing this position in this thread when I can just spend my time elsewhere?

Was that a rhetorical question? Did you really mean "if I were greedy" instead of "if I did"? In that case, it's to give yourself the justification for the actions you did, and they weren't really considered entirely honest, based on the reactions of some other people.

You decide for yourself. Stop going off topic to discuss my intentions. This thread is called "Liar Tree Sap 100%" for a reason.

You seemed to have been okay with this for a while. Also, the actual subject of the thread is sort of ambiguous. In establishing the grounds of compromise on what's considered a glitch or w/e, we can settle the questions surrounding the messed up Branch Noses once and for all on what is considered proper use of Liar Tree Sap 100%.

How has Harrisonized not been banned for trolling yet? This is ridiculous.

For clean slates, there might've been a few others who thought it was a feature, but I vaguely remember it being pretty overwhelming with belief of it being a glitch.

As for why I tried it, as you said yourself, we never knew how it worked or if it'd work at all. We devised a theory and tested it and it magically worked. I didnt abuse any glitch because I didnt know of any glitch existing there. Once I found out that such a glitch indeed existed, I stopped doing it. That's the difference between you and I: While you did the "glitch" knowingly, I did it without previous knowledge of it being so.

So now knowing it exists changes everything. If someone stumbles about a glitch accidentally, they're not abusing it?

What I have to say to this doesnt matter; I was talking about a relationship between nexon and a given player (the player hacking doesnt concern me... its not doing any damage to me for the most part, while he isnt playing by the rules, it really isnt any of my buisness, I dont run the game, I dont govenrn the game, those who do will deal with the sitaution). What you're saying is that whether something is a glitch or not is based on results. What Im saying is that that shouldnt be an accurate way to judge whether or not something is "okay to do". If a cop catches me speeding but out of sympathy lets me go, does that mean its okay to speed? Does that mean that speeding isnt against the law? (I know that this doesnt pertain to glitch status as its not set in stone, but what Im pointing at is "Do the results govern the status of a specific action... just pointing this out as you have a tendency to completely miss my point and answer in a completely different direction... I dont know if that's on purpose or not, but you have no wait to avoid it either way now)

I don't miss it intentionally, I get it here. However, that's because it was already declared that speeding is illegal. Let's say that you didn't know whether sticking your GPS on the car window was legal or not, but you went ahead and did it. Without prior knowledge, should the cop really catch you for something so minor? Or should he let you off with only a warning? The answer to that lies in the morality of the cop, or in our glitch case, the morality of Nexon.

1. @ The 3 million exp snail example, it has actually happened, but in MSEA. I remember a while ago, their maple island had a quest that gave hundreds of millions or something along those lines and some people abused it by making multiple characters to continue doing the quest, then transfering the mesos. Asiasoft didnt make an announcement about that at the time so can we argue it wasnt a glitch? In the end, they froze all related accounts and banned many of them. There are times when glitches are just so blatantly obvious that you cant call it any other way other than use the "they never said so" excuse. Go figure.

Nope. The 3m exp thing wasn't 3m exp, rather it was mesos. People who abused it were banned. However, with your "obvious" thing, yes, I could say it was "obvious", but the magnitude of that as opposed to the Liar Tree Saps is different.

2. This is something I just thought of since my last post so I'll say it now: IF this is indeed a feature and not a glitch, why do these saps expire on April 8th? Your gach noses last forever, so why should the "steroid scrolls" for the nose disappear on the 8th which... hmmm, "coincidentally" expire on the exact same day as this temporary nose quest! hmmm, can you connect the two dots here? I sure cant!

Because Nexon stuck the same kind of noses in the Gachapon far before the event came out. They did not have "oversight" on whether or not they'd ever release this event quest.

3. After refreshing the board, I see Russt has addressed exactly what I was saying above. Yes, I drank the water and took the risk to see if it was poisoned. It indeed was and I drank no more from it. You however on the other hand...drank, knowing it was poisoned.

Or did I? I did it to test whether a cape can have more then "intended" slots. But then again, since "everyone" considers it a glitch, then I shouldn't have tested it and I should have left it as is so that people don't call me a glitcher?

come on: Nexon really on purpose make BF poisonable, make CB earnt billions per snails, make you +50 slots on shoes with spike shoe scroll, make Hermit eanrt millions of exp when Bodyguard was Shadow-webable a couple year ago in jMS, make jMSer earnt billions in tradeMS hack etc...

As replied to Jackk, the magnitudes of those are so different that you can't compare the two. Liar Tree Saps aren't game breaking while what you mentioned is. However, the Bodyguard and BF glitch are such that you could say "how did they miss that" and assume that they probably didn't miss it, they put it there intentionally.

Okay, Nexon defined a glitch to be "an unintended feature'. You sir sitting here arguing whether they're intended for something like this to happen or not, and since you believe in "innocent until proven guilty", I guess that translates to "intended until Nexon said otherwise".

And you are arguing whether or not something was not intended. You're insulting me based on opposing views.

So yes, did Nexon intended to make white scrolls stacked with clean slate scrolls? Did Nexon intended to make BF the way it was?

I addressed the Bigfoot glitch up above. Yes, you could argue that white scrolls were meant to stack with clean slate scrolls, if you consider a clean slate a normal scroll. Really the only thing that determined it was possibly unintentional was the message that people got when they USED the scroll, which was that the slot was protected. That message was what ultimately convinced me it was a glitch. However, there's nothing in this Liar Tree Sap that has so far provided convincing evidence to why it's not working the way it should.

Did Nexon intended to make scrolls dupable? etc.

Duping is a hack, not a glitch. Don't bring up hacks in a glitch discussion.

Common sense, (as well as programming logic) said no.

Programming logic says no. Common sense doesn't apply.

So you sir can sleep happy with your strong belief that it isnt a glitch, while we're expressing our strong belief that it is. You're not willing to bend your view so stop expecting us to bend ours. You fully aware of what you're doing indeed and Nexon makes the call at the end of the day.

LoL. I don't even have a gacha branch nose.

Your theory is wrong.

Or it could be correct. Just because you present another method that might be correct doesn't automatically mean that mine is wrong. I didn't say mine was the correct view, I merely said it was a theory.

You have your view and we have ours. You ask people to STOP assuming, and yet you're doing the verything you asked. Your point of view assumes that Nexon intended for things to be that way. Our point of view said it's unintended. After all, how could something designed to work on one set of items would work on another set as an intended feature? Again, you're not going to bend on your view, and so are we. Stop enforcing.

Then stop attacking me on it.

And again guys, don't say things as if it were a fact, unless you have proper proof.

This thread is full of it, including the usage of common sense as a predictor.

Oh and yeah. It's morally wrong to abuse a glitch unless everyone does it. Just thought I'd hit you guys up with that.

That's interesting how you put it. When you go to war and your squad is ordered to kill the enemy, would that automatically make killing morally correct?

It's also factual. In case you're wondering where my pessimism comes from, it's because I've had to fend for myself more than once. Life for me was not all sunshine and lollipops.

I suppose you're right. However, Nexon doesn't need to deceive you, whereas, the people with whom you had to fend yourself might have needed to.

How am I not suppose to use "sarcasm" if I'm dealing with a guy that can't look the right way? People can do the darnedest things everyday.

I dump the "common" sense as an explanation. That's why unless someone gives me objective data, I'm going to sit on my view. Right now the only objective data that's been presented in these whole few pages is the fact that other versions have this event. Well, great that other versions have it. Do they work on their gacha branch noses? What if they do? Are they supposed to? Nobody has answered that question yet and are still trying to change my views on the basis of the "common" sense.

You must have brought up the BF glitch believing it to be relevant to Tree Saps. We're just taking it one step further down the conversational tree. Also, the OP left the thread to be pretty open, since all he did was say "Didn't see a thread on it..." and posted a picture of a Tree Sap. All interpretations and related shyts are go!

I didn't bring up the Bigfoot glitch. Rather, people claimed I was wrong because I supported the view that Bigfoot and Clean Slate were not glitches.

The FM DC situation is... well, really hard to stop before it happens. Do you have any suggestions?

Yes, I do. Have a GM monitor the FM. Really, it's the equivalent of hiring bodyguards.

Allow me to demonstrate a useful strategy for banning h4x0rz (I suspect Nexon does this as well). People know that the goal of most h4x0rz is to lvl up ludicrously fast and get as much mesos as possible. To do this, they need to kill monsters. But they could kill any kind of monster. Popular training maps are great choices for this, due to low HP/exp ratios, excellent drops, or a combination of the two. Odds are good that there will be h4x0rz in those training areas, and the continued presence of h4x0rz in given "hot spots", while disparaging to the legit user population, gives h4x0rz the assurance that they can get away with whatever they are doing. This, however, does not give them the guarantee that Nexon hasn't caught them in the act. Nexon knows they have it coming now; it's just a matter of banning them soon and eventually, but preferably not in a manner obvious to others. In doing this covertly, Nexon can "bait" other, different h4x0r individuals into the same hot spots and keep tabs on them as well. In the meantime between phases, they scout out reports from unpopular regions of the world and catch h4x0rz who hope to evade detection by doing their business in places where no one looks. The eventual message they want to get across is that they will be caught, no matter what. This doesn't stop the most stubborn and arrogant people though.

Before they do that, why don't they look in the obvious places where the hackers are interfering with legit leveling and boost their publicity?

Ultimately, Nexon wants to find a programming solution to patch up the h4x. Initial behavior study on the game simulation is useful in determining what exploit they are using in order to h4x the game. If Nexon just banned every h4x0r on the spot without observing what's going on, they won't learn anything useful.

Hackers in popular locations hack the same way as hackers in hidden locations. They're all script kiddies downloading the same hacks from CheatEngine. The professional hackers don't hack for level gain or meso gain because they don't need to.

And while all that drama is going on, GMs have to respond to all other types of reports, as well as fulfill their other duties as employees such as playing customer service reps (somewhat doubtful, but who knows).

Easy solution: hire more GMs. It takes more than a few staff to run a game. Let's say the population of Maple is 1 million players. Having a team of 100 players simply isn't going to be enough. That's like having 1 staff per 10,000. It's not going to work.

Another factor contributing to lack of response is that, while we know what's going on, GMs aren't in on the loop, and are fairly slow on picking up all of our ambiguous signals until someone somewhere raises the alarm and says "I've had enough". Sure, we talk about h4x0rz in guild chat or w/e, but GMs won't necessarily be able to spy on that, or pick it out later if they have convo logs (doubtful).

You know that people send tickets about hacks? If Nexon didn't use their stupid auto-reply program, they'd actually catch some of it.

Yet another factor contributing to lack of GM response and presence is economics. (this is one huge balancing act, but I will only go over one topic.) In Nexon's interest, they want to squeeze as much productivity off of their employees as possible. Let's say it takes 30 GMs to stave off h4x0rz in an epidemic, such as PG h4xing epidemic, in order to keep a good proportion of the users happy. Then say that the code monkeys found a solution to stop ALL PG h4x0rz, which makes h4xing practically non-existent. Then that's a good 15 GMs who are being paid to do nothing but sit on their asses all day (relatively conservative estimate). Nexon's losing money! Nexon isn't there to just serve our asses either, they're in it for the money. So what they're looking for is a good balance of GMs that can keep a sufficient amount of users happy during h4xing epidemics (gl with that) while still getting their money's worth when h4xing becomes virtually zero in an on-off cycle of h4xes.

They're not keeping a good proportion of the users happy. The users are only still playing because of habituation to the hackers. What they could do is allocate some of the GMs to public relations, like what they did with NXJoeW a while ago.

Logic and math pretty much go hand in hand. It's words that causes error of interpretation, thus the birth of the field of logic. Logic is the science that attempts to define something as objectively as possible as to leave little room for false interpretation. Math proofs do very much the same thing, only its foundations are based off of other proofs, and ultimately abstract foundations such as numbers.

Math proofs do the same thing except that there is almost no room for interpretation. Logic leaves room for interpretation. However, I bring this up because people here are basing logic off "common sense" and that's not logic, that's BS.

I never mentioned the Clean Slate glitch. Also, stop putting yourself in the future and put yourself in the present of a situation. According to you, big government decisions and political judgment in court are all baloney because they use hindsight to solve their disputes.

No, they use past examples as references, not as their entire argument.

And as for my views on BF before it was announced to be a glitch, I thought it was highly suspicious that a 32 million HP monster could be taken out in a matter of a minute or two, on top of giving out 2.66 million exp. That's just game-breaking and really lopsidedly favorable the classes that do have %-based HP-damaging abilities. Any decently respectful gaming company wouldn't allow that to happen (if you disagree with this, feel free to explain), so therefore that must be a mistake by Nexon and therefore a glitch (more like an oversight imo).

Any decent company wouldn't allow that to happen. Assuming Nexon is a decent gaming company and they allowed it to happen might suggest something about the intent.

Again, try predicting something sometime. Play a game of chess if you have to.

You could predict in a game of chess, but you can't know for certain. While you think you have the opponent's moves mapped out, the other player can ninja you in a way that you didn't predict.

Because we the people feel there is something wrong with your morals and feel that we must correct it. Or something. Could be arrogance. For me, my issue with you is that you're displaying lots of "American" ignorance.

Don't attack my logic based on discrimination.

What if silence doesn't speak conformity? What if silence is better than noise, like sitting on the lid of a boiling pot as politicians (referring to pre-Civil War politics on slavery)? Nexon was silent on some h4x0r epidemics. Did Nexon approve of them?

The truth is that silence speaks conformity. Referring to the Holocaust, if Hitler's people didn't carry out his orders, then the extermination of the Jews wouldn't have happened. In fact, some of Hitler's officials said they were "just following orders".

If you did this without poison, then I forgive you. Otherwise, you're interpreting something for your convenience.

And who doesn't interpret things to their convenience? Let's say this: someone said that he was going to shoot you and then he reaches into his pocket. You shoot him before he extracts from his pocket a cell phone. Was that wrong for you to do that? The point of this is intent. Your intent to help came out wrong, does it automatically mean that you're just interpreting things for your convenience? What if he really did pull out a gun? Still the same interpretation?

Again, interpretation for your convenience. You feared that Nexon was going to fix the "exploit" (and I heard that they did). Whatever opportunity you took, it was something that doesn't come as often as getting an egg for your Pendant.Was that a rhetorical question? Did you really mean "if I were greedy" instead of "if I did"? In that case, it's to give yourself the justification for the actions you did, and they weren't really considered entirely honest, based on the reactions of some other people.

No, I didn't fear that. In fact, it wouldn't matter to me because if they had fixed it, then I could just resell the white scroll. What I did was test whether or not I could achieve more than 5 slots on my cape. I didn't know whether it would, I just tried it. In fact, before I tried it, I thought that it probably might not even work, because there was no evidence that it would. People were only using clean slates and whatever weapons they wanted to improve.

You seemed to have been okay with this for a while. Also, the actual subject of the thread is sort of ambiguous.

I seem to be OK, because I was merely defending myself in my beliefs. However, when people started using those as examples, that's when it crossed the line.

In establishing the grounds of compromise on what's considered a glitch or w/e, we can settle the questions surrounding the messed up Branch Noses once and for all on what is considered proper use of Liar Tree Sap 100%.

"Messed up" branch noses eh? So what IS the proper use of the Tree Saps. If you didn't bother reading all of that, I'll say it again for all the tl;dr's. As it has been stated, the Tree Saps were direct copies of what's in other versions. However, some questions still remain:

• Are their gacha tree branches the same as their event ones or different?
  
• Are their gacha tree branches named differently or the same?
  
• Do their tree saps work on their gacha tree branches or not?
  
• How did their version's companies reply to the situation
  

Without these answered, I'm not changing my view. Do NOT attack me on the basis of common sense.

How has Harrisonized not been banned for trolling yet? This is ridiculous.

Because I'm not trolling.

"Messed up" branch noses eh? So what IS the proper use of the Tree Saps. If you didn't bother reading all of that, I'll say it again for all the tl;dr's. As it has been stated, the Tree Saps were direct copies of what's in other versions. However, some questions still remain:
Are their gacha tree branches the same as their event ones or different?
Are their gacha tree branches named differently or the same?
Do their tree saps work on their gacha tree branches or not?
How did their version's companies reply to the situation

a) they are different from the event ones, 7 slots 1 avoid (and some def?)
b) dunno
c) no
d) typical nexon, quietly change it without telling anybody they screwed up. Why admit something was wrong when you can fix it and pretend it never happened? That's just the way they do things, and if you expect them to explicitly state every glitch, you're being unrealistic..

This thread is full of it, including the usage of common sense as a predictor.

That's interesting how you put it. When you go to war and your squad is ordered to kill the enemy, would that automatically make killing morally correct?

I wasn't saying that to you, lol.

I'm not sure how that works in war. I think it would depend on the situation and stuff. I'd like to compare it to downloading copyrighted material illegally instead, as it is morally acceptable since everyone does it.

But harr, let's go on topic. If you guys ever get there, that is

If you have to excuse yourself from every action you make, it's because of something.

I suppose you're right. However, Nexon doesn't need to deceive you, whereas, the people with whom you had to fend yourself might have needed to.

Nexon doesn't intend to deceive you, but they might do so unintentionally.

How does a drunk just walking up to me then violently mugging me for cash considered deceit?

I dump the "common" sense as an explanation. That's why unless someone gives me objective data, I'm going to sit on my view. Right now the only objective data that's been presented in these whole few pages is the fact that other versions have this event. Well, great that other versions have it. Do they work on their gacha branch noses? What if they do? Are they supposed to? Nobody has answered that question yet and are still trying to change my views on the basis of the "common" sense.

Math proofs do the same thing except that there is almost no room for interpretation. Logic leaves room for interpretation. However, I bring this up because people here are basing logic off "common sense" and that's not logic, that's BS.

It's rather hard to objectify something such as interpretation of something that could be classified as multiple things.

That's where logic jumps in! Common sense" as we know it is based off of general beliefs on what is correct and what is not. For example, you and I both agree that we should not steal from neighbors (if this is not true, please say so). Then we take logic, which the foundations of its arguments are based on a collection of facts that are given to be true. Common sense has existed for a very long time and many aspects of common sense has persisted throughout the years in spite of other radical changes. People can accept logic that's based on common sense because they believe common sense to be true.

Of course, if you don't believe common sense is "true", then their logic falls apart. By your assumption I would expect you to be streaking around naked on a toasty hot summer day. Mathematical proofs work in a very similar way. If you don't believe 1 + 1 = 2, then nearly everything in mathematics falls apart. I could say that .99999999999... repeating is equal to 1, but do you believe me? People argue that it isn't, people argue that it is. And then there's math in cryptography; people duke it out in determining what the standard meaning of "operations" is.

I didn't bring up the Bigfoot glitch. Rather, people claimed I was wrong because I supported the view that Bigfoot and Clean Slate were not glitches.

:f6:

Yes, I do. Have a GM monitor the FM. Really, it's the equivalent of hiring bodyguards.

You're aware that doesn't work, right? People could just walk up to you and sucker punch you. How can you possibly stop them from doing that? Even worse is the fact that the majority of the people who walk up to you don't intend to do that, yet there's always 1 guy that may potentially end your life.

The only way for the GMs to recognize the d/c h4x0rz before they d/c the FM is to scan their computers for the h4x, and that's infeasible. There's absolutely nothing else to positively ID someone in a crowd whose intent is to d/c someone. Sure, you can stop him afterward, but definitely not before-hand.

Before they do that, why don't they look in the obvious places where the hackers are interfering with legit leveling and boost their publicity?

They do look in the obvious places. H4x0rz replace h4x0rz, and GMs can't just camp at those places 24/7; they have other duties to attend to.

Hackers in popular locations hack the same way as hackers in hidden locations. They're all script kiddies downloading the same hacks from CheatEngine. The professional hackers don't hack for level gain or meso gain because they don't need to.

You are indeed correct, but what does that have to do with the particular segment which you replied to? Furthermore, note that I didn't say that was false, I just said you were more likely to find h4x0rz in popular locations.

Easy solution: hire more GMs. It takes more than a few staff to run a game. Let's say the population of Maple is 1 million players. Having a team of 100 players simply isn't going to be enough. That's like having 1 staff per 10,000. It's not going to work.

You know that people send tickets about hacks? If Nexon didn't use their stupid auto-reply program, they'd actually catch some of it.

You're definitely not going to run a business with that attitude. I've told you it's one big balancing act.

And NxProse can definitely relate to the problems they face with the ticketing system. For every useful report they got in Tespia, they got fifty-something useless crap reports (exaggeration? you get the idea). Guess where those Tespians came from! GMS! They'll throw the same bullshyt into the ticketing system as they did the Tespia bug report, more or less. The taskforce can't deal with all that garbage individually, and I don't think the majority of the people dealing with these tickets are programmers, so they wouldn't know wth someone's talking about when they're given instructions on how to patch a h4x. It could be a virus to them, for all they know.

Why don't they have a bigger taskforce? Greed, and/or they don't think it justifies the costs. Also, having a thousand people sitting in an office makes for quite a hefty property tax or w/e expenses they pay to rent out office space in some skyscraper.

They're not keeping a good proportion of the users happy. The users are only still playing because of habituation to the hackers. What they could do is allocate some of the GMs to public relations, like what they did with NXJoeW a while ago.

HINDSIGHT ALERT!!!! HINDSIGHT ALERT!!!!

No, they use past examples as references, not as their entire argument.

Oh, so it's okay for us to get multiple references to make "Harrisonized-approved arguments"?

--Xaru xbow glitch, people got banned for abusing that.
--WW toenails glitch, people... wait, I wasn't around for that, srry
--Diamond glitch, people abused it and got banned.
--Scams. "Oh, they're not scams unless Nexon says it is." Boom, you're banned. Oh, and if you recognize new scams as a scam, you're using common sense!
--People bought White Scrolls during the dupes era. They got banned, some rather unfairly. People who played it safe never got banned.
--People smegaed obscenities. Some got banned.

But seriously, court rulings are usually based in precedents, not just merely referencing them. All those rulings have are additional props and legs to support them.

Any decent company wouldn't allow that to happen. Assuming Nexon is a decent gaming company and they allowed it to happen might suggest something about the intent.

Have you heard of mistakes? It's not like you intended to leave out the word "may" (yes, you used the word "forget" to explain your mistake) when you started making assumptions about Nexon's White Scroll dupes detection systems. You are one heck of an exploiter.

You could predict in a game of chess, but you can't know for certain. While you think you have the opponent's moves mapped out, the other player can ninja you in a way that you didn't predict.

In order to get the best of your enemies, you must be able to grab opportunities before they become closed to you. But maybe they wanted you to take those opportunities so they can ninja you and leave you hurting. (again, they may not intentionally deceive you, but it can happen)

Don't attack my logic based on discrimination.

Sorry, it's been highly suggested in a few research papers and essays. But I didn't attack your logic itself based on discrimination.

The truth is that silence speaks conformity. Referring to the Holocaust, if Hitler's people didn't carry out his orders, then the extermination of the Jews wouldn't have happened. In fact, some of Hitler's officials said they were "just following orders".

And yet some of Hitler's officials didn't really like what was going on. Not much of a conformation. The reason why they didn't speak their mind is because they would probably get the axe for doing so.

In Nexon's case, they probably weren't aware of the BF glitch initially. Or if they knew about it, why let Maplers rampage on the glitch, then later announce that it is a glitch? That's rather perplexing to me.

And who doesn't interpret things to their convenience? Let's say this: someone said that he was going to shoot you and then he reaches into his pocket. You shoot him before he extracts from his pocket a cell phone. Was that wrong for you to do that? The point of this is intent. Your intent to help came out wrong, does it automatically mean that you're just interpreting things for your convenience? What if he really did pull out a gun? Still the same interpretation?

You were interpreting things for your convenience in an amoral fashion.

Police training would dictate that you should not shoot based on assumptions, because the cost of not following such regulations is rather extreme in some cases.

No, I didn't fear that. In fact, it wouldn't matter to me because if they had fixed it, then I could just resell the white scroll. What I did was test whether or not I could achieve more than 5 slots on my cape. I didn't know whether it would, I just tried it. In fact, before I tried it, I thought that it probably might not even work, because there was no evidence that it would. People were only using clean slates and whatever weapons they wanted to improve.

But you still wanted to try it because "what if I can get that extra INT?" Your test has a rather high cost for something that doesn't apply to most people, I doubt it was just for curiosity. I personally found probable cause that it would work, but that's not your fault.

I seem to be OK, because I was merely defending myself in my beliefs. However, when people started using those as examples, that's when it crossed the line.

No comment.

"Messed up" branch noses eh? So what IS the proper use of the Tree Saps. If you didn't bother reading all of that, I'll say it again for all the tl;dr's. As it has been stated, the Tree Saps were direct copies of what's in other versions. However, some questions still remain:

• Are their gacha tree branches the same as their event ones or different?
  
• Are their gacha tree branches named differently or the same?
  
• Do their tree saps work on their gacha tree branches or not?
  
• How did their version's companies reply to the situation
  

Without these answered, I'm not changing my view. Do NOT attack me on the basis of common sense.

Proper use of Tree Saps is to use it on the Branch Noses that come from the hourly quest.

I want to be able to see an SS of a previously known "????" Branch Nose before making a solid stance on these questions, assuming they're the untradeable gach Branch Noses. For now however, in other versions, I'll say
"No",
"I dunno, but their IDs aren't the same",
"Doubtful",
"What situation? Was there one?".

a) they are different from the event ones, 7 slots 1 avoid (and some def?)

Hmm... as I recall, during the Maple Leaf event, it didn't matter whether your leaf was a INT leaf or a DEX leaf, the syrups still worked on them since they share the same name.

d) typical nexon, quietly change it without telling anybody they screwed up. Why admit something was wrong when you can fix it and pretend it never happened? That's just the way they do things, and if you expect them to explicitly state every glitch, you're being unrealistic..

It could be no response, but you don't know whether there was one or if there wasn't, and if there was one, you don't know what it was.

L> someone to find out. Since I can't read Korean or Japanese.

Nexon doesn't intend to deceive you, but they might do so unintentionally.

How does a drunk just walking up to me then violently mugging me for cash considered deceit?

I said "might". I had no idea of the situation.

It's rather hard to objectify something such as interpretation of something that could be classified as multiple things.

Possibly why nobody has done it yet...

That's where logic jumps in! Common sense" as we know it is based off of general beliefs on what is correct and what is not. For example, you and I both agree that we should not steal from neighbors (if this is not true, please say so). Then we take logic, which the foundations of its arguments are based on a collection of facts that are given to be true. Common sense has existed for a very long time and many aspects of common sense has persisted throughout the years in spite of other radical changes. People can accept logic that's based on common sense because they believe common sense to be true.

Common sense can't be used as a point of argument. Let's say this: Someone accidentally shoots another person, and kills him. When brought to court, "that guy should get life sentence for murder, after all, it's common sense."

Common sense is so broad that I disregard it. Yes, I believe that we should not steal from neighbors. However, in a hypothetical situation, let's say that there are barbarians living in an isolated area. They agree it's morally correct to steal from each other. Their common sense tells them to steal from each other.

Suddenly, when the barbarians are brought together with "normal" civilization and they steal from a "normal" person and are brought to court, what would they say? Each side using "common sense" as an argument would just be an impediment.

Of course, if you don't believe common sense is "true", then their logic falls apart. By your assumption I would expect you to be streaking around naked on a toasty hot summer day. Mathematical proofs work in a very similar way. If you don't believe 1 + 1 = 2, then nearly everything in mathematics falls apart. I could say that .99999999999... repeating is equal to 1, but do you believe me? People argue that it isn't, people argue that it is. And then there's math in cryptography; people duke it out in determining what the standard meaning of "operations" is.

Mathematics is a representation, a method of counting. Of course, if you replace all numbers 3 with 2 and vice versa, then twelve would be 13 and twenty two would be 33, ect. Then you could say that 1 + 1 =/= 2. I personally don't think that .9 repeating is 1, because then when you apply logic, 9 repeating is infinite. I would not be streaking on a hot summer day, but what about people would would? You can't just walk up to a nudist and ask "Why are you naked?" and tell them "It's common sense to wear clothes", because that would just be very naiive.

You're aware that doesn't work, right? People could just walk up to you and sucker punch you. How can you possibly stop them from doing that? Even worse is the fact that the majority of the people who walk up to you don't intend to do that, yet there's always 1 guy that may potentially end your life.

You can't. However, if there was security nearby, he could prevent people from punching each other to death. Maybe he can't stop the initial blow but he can help prevent serious situations from occurring.

The only way for the GMs to recognize the d/c h4x0rz before they d/c the FM is to scan their computers for the h4x, and that's infeasible. There's absolutely nothing else to positively ID someone in a crowd whose intent is to d/c someone. Sure, you can stop him afterward, but definitely not before-hand.

If you station a GM somewhere in the FM, they'll definitely notice and prevent the DC of all FMs. Maybe one of two FMs will get blown but some help is still better than no help.

They do look in the obvious places. H4x0rz replace h4x0rz, and GMs can't just camp at those places 24/7; they have other duties to attend to.

Actually, they can. Anybody can use multiple computers at one time. All the GM has to do is line ten or twenty computers up at his work station and then log onto the popular maps. Maybe if they weren't invisible all the time, people can message him what channel in what map the hacking is occuring. For example, let's say that someone was hacking at Newties. Then a legit coming in to train could message a GM like "NewtiesSCANIA" or something like that and tell them to CC.

You're definitely not going to run a business with that attitude. I've told you it's one big balancing act.

All it takes is a salary cut. If you cut each employee's salary by 5%, then you could hire one more worker per 20. Really, Nexon makes enough profit to hire more employees.

And NxProse can definitely relate to the problems they face with the ticketing system. For every useful report they got in Tespia, they got fifty-something useless crap reports (exaggeration? you get the idea). Guess where those Tespians came from! GMS! They'll throw the same bullshyt into the ticketing system as they did the Tespia bug report, more or less. The taskforce can't deal with all that garbage individually, and I don't think the majority of the people dealing with these tickets are programmers, so they wouldn't know wth someone's talking about when they're given instructions on how to patch a h4x. It could be a virus to them, for all they know.

Yes they can. It takes around 20 seconds to read a useless ticket. That's 3 tickets a minute, 180 tickets an hour. Assuming an 8 hour workday, one ticketer can screen 1440 tickets a day.

Maybe Nexon is low on efficiency. However, from what you said, 50 bad tickets to 1 good ticket, let's make a calculation. If Nexon receives 10K tickets a day... then they can have efficiency by getting an initial screener who categorizes a ticket as passing or failing. A passing ticket means it'll get to other ticketforce members.

By having 7 ticketforce people means that they can screen ALL the tickets they receive each day. Since that's 1 good ticket per 50, as you said, then they only receive 200 read-worthy tickets. Assuming a person can read 20 tickets an hour (1 ticket per 3 minute) and form a good response to each of them, that's at most 2 people to handle ticket reading.

8 people in a ticketforce for a multimillionaire company isn't something ridiculous to ask for.

Why don't they have a bigger taskforce? Greed, and/or they don't think it justifies the costs. Also, having a thousand people sitting in an office makes for quite a hefty property tax or w/e expenses they pay to rent out office space in some skyscraper.

Really, assuming the GMs were smart enough to log on multiple computers at once (maybe 10 or 20), only a few more GMs need to be hired and their current workforce would be sufficient.

Oh, so it's okay for us to get multiple references to make "Harrisonized-approved arguments"?

--Xaru xbow glitch, people got banned for abusing that.
--WW toenails glitch, people... wait, I wasn't around for that, srry
--Diamond glitch, people abused it and got banned.
--Scams. "Oh, they're not scams unless Nexon says it is." Boom, you're banned. Oh, and if you recognize new scams as a scam, you're using common sense!
--People bought White Scrolls during the dupes era. They got banned, some rather unfairly. People who played it safe never got banned.
--People smegaed obscenities. Some got banned.

But seriously, court rulings are usually based in precedents, not just merely referencing them. All those rulings have are additional props and legs to support them.

Bolded are the ones I haven't heard about. Scams are based off trickery. I don't see the connection of scams to glitches.

People were banned for smegaing obscenities because it states in the ToS that cursing is not allowed. People buying white scrolls during the dupe era, that's unfortunate. As you said, "some rather unfairly".

Have you heard of mistakes? It's not like you intended to leave out the word "may" (yes, you used the word "forget" to explain your mistake) when you started making assumptions about Nexon's White Scroll dupes detection systems. You are one heck of an exploiter.

Yes, mistakes do happen.

However, a good example of mistakes happening: Someone goes to the grocery store and sees a mispriced reclining chair for 30 dollars, where before it was 100 dollars. The store still has to give you the chair for 30 dollars, regardless of their mistakes. They don't go call security to kick you out of the store when you try to purchase the chair, then sue you for theft.

Sorry, it's been highly suggested in a few research papers and essays. But I didn't attack your logic itself based on discrimination.

Yes you did. You said I had a very "American" view of the situation.

And yet some of Hitler's officials didn't really like what was going on. Not much of a conformation. The reason why they didn't speak their mind is because they would probably get the axe for doing so.

In Nexon's case, they probably weren't aware of the BF glitch initially. Or if they knew about it, why let Maplers rampage on the glitch, then later announce that it is a glitch? That's rather perplexing to me.

Rather perplexing to me too.

You were interpreting things for your convenience in an amoral fashion.

Police training would dictate that you should not shoot based on assumptions, because the cost of not following such regulations is rather extreme in some cases.

I don't like morality as a point of argument as well because morality varies from person to person, just as common sense does.

You'd think that if anyone were smart, they'd shoot if they were told that they'd be killed otherwise? After all, in my example, the person clearly said that he was going to shoot you. Thus, if they're going to shoot you, what would they be reaching for? A gun maybe? Better "safe than sorry"?

But you still wanted to try it because "what if I can get that extra INT?" Your test has a rather high cost for something that doesn't apply to most people, I doubt it was just for curiosity. I personally found probable cause that it would work, but that's not your fault.

No. One INT for 400m is a ridiculous amount of money. Not even the mages with the top magic attack scores would pay that much for an INT gain. I didn't find probable cause that it would work, because according to people, "the intended number of slots are 5", and "if it would work someone would have tried it already".

Proper use of Tree Saps is to use it on the Branch Noses that come from the hourly quest.

Yes, but that's merely your perception.

I want to be able to see an SS of a previously known "????" Branch Nose before making a solid stance on these questions, assuming they're the untradeable gach Branch Noses.

Branch noses were all ???? before one day Nexon mysteriously renamed them "Tree Branch Nose".

For now however, in other versions, I'll say
"No",
"I dunno, but their IDs aren't the same",
"Doubtful",
"What situation? Was there one?".

If their IDs aren't the same, then why do they work? I speculate that it's because they're intended to work on all things named "Tree Branch Nose" that is a face accessory regardless of the item. If that is so, then they are working as intended.

If there is a situation in GMS, there is likely a situation in other versions as well. After all, GMS copies all of its data from other versions.

Hmm... as I recall, during the Maple Leaf event, it didn't matter whether your leaf was a INT leaf or a DEX leaf, the syrups still worked on them since they share the same name.

No, it's a different item which the saps do not work on. This is not uncertain. Other versions did not get gachapon noses that the event scrolls worked on.

It could be no response, but you don't know whether there was one or if there wasn't, and if there was one, you don't know what it was.

I'm not talking about specifics, I mean in general.

Did Nexon announce that there was a glitch with clean slate scrolls? No, they just fixed it. Unless they're banning people for abusing them (and thus warning people not to do it), they don't say when there are glitches.

I think the fact that they get fixed speaks for itself. If it wasn't a glitch, they wouldn't change it.

No, it's a different item which the saps do not work on. This is not uncertain. Other versions did not get gachapon noses that the event scrolls worked on.

Hmm. I see.

Let's say this then:
There are four kinds of Tree Branch Noses: STR, DEX, LUK, and INT. Assuming each nose were a different item, then the logical conclusion to arrive at is that the Tree Saps were designed to work on all noses called "Tree Branch Nose".

Thus, tree saps are working as they are designed... if you describe design by intent, then they are working as they are intended.

I'm not talking about specifics, I mean in general.

Keep in mind that GMS is run by Nexon. Other versions are run by other companies. For example, MSEA is run by Asiasoft.

Did Nexon announce that there was a glitch with clean slate scrolls? No, they just fixed it. Unless they're banning people for abusing them (and thus warning people not to do it), they don't say when there are glitches.

I think the fact that they get fixed speaks for itself. If it wasn't a glitch, they wouldn't change it.

Nexon has yet to "fix" the tree saps, you don't know their intent. If they "fix" it, or if there's something that strongly indicates they're not working correctly, then I'll believe you.

On the Tree Saps, it does say it's supposed to work on "Pinocchio's Nose" so maybe the Tree Branch Noses awarded in the event are the glitch itself. The quest maybe was supposed to award "Pinocchio's Nose" but the translator may have typed in "Tree Branch Nose" when designing the item.

It's true that the saps are intended for "Tree Branch Nose" items, but that's not really the glitch. The glitch dates way back when they put ??? ??? into mushroom shrine gachapon, which was NOT supposed to be there. The "Tree Branch Nose" items were intended for this event and this event only, but Nexon screwed up and added the str version of the nose to the gachapon due to forgetting to highlight and delete the item when copypasting from other versions.

The scrolls are working correctly but the Branch Noses aren't. Some people got noses without expiry dates, which I see as the main problem. If they all expired on April 8 it wouldn't be an issue.

The scrolls are working correctly but the Branch Noses aren't. Some people got noses without expiry dates, which I see as the main problem. If they all expired on April 8 it wouldn't be an issue.

From the event? Or do you mean the gachapon?

It's true that the saps are intended for "Tree Branch Nose" items, but that's not really the glitch. The glitch dates way back when they put ??? ??? into mushroom shrine gachapon, which was NOT supposed to be there. The "Tree Branch Nose" items were intended for this event and this event only, but Nexon screwed up and added the str version of the nose to the gachapon due to forgetting to highlight and delete the item when copypasting from other versions.

Seems a bit too late now, many people have them, Nexon never announced it was a glitch even if it was. So all those people are now just stuck with a nose. At least they're untradable, so there can't be economic problems I guess...

Unless you can scissor them, which you may not be able to. Doesn't matter for now either way.

I still question it though. Was it or was it not a glitch.

EDIT: I'm not gonna read the wall of text from above (tl;dr). If this a repeat it, ignore it.

I would think that the Branch nose that can expire has a seperate ID from the Branch nose that does not expire. The expiration date should be generated right as you picked it up, with a set date (i.e. in 5 days that the second you obtained it). Unless the expire date is completely controlled by NPC, but seeing how in the datafiles there is someone called "Time Limited"...

I would think that the Branch nose that can expire has a seperate ID from the Branch nose that does not expire. The expiration date should be generated right as you picked it up, with a set date (i.e. in 5 days that the second you obtained it). Unless the expire date is completely controlled by NPC, but seeing how in the datafiles there is someone called "Time Limited"...

Expiry date is just another variable, if they fail to set it an item won't expire. It's not a different item ID.

They could pretty easily find all the branch noses without expiry dates and give them one, though.