Liar Tree Sap 100%

Then you'd be deceiving the person drinking the Sprite. Using Liar Tree Saps has nothing to do with trickery.

KajitiSouls quotes Harrisonized on the Bigfoot glitch, and formulates a response saying why he disapproves of Harrisonized's views.

Harrisonized quotes KajitiSouls and counters that he doesn't see why Liar Tree Saps have nothing to do with trickery.

Eh? That's just you dancing around pretending not to look in the right direction.

Yes, that example used deceit, which is why I told the next one.

Ok. Let's say then, that you bought the duped white scrolls, and you used them. Nexon has no way of telling that you used it, or that you even used a white scroll on an item. Thus, the only result could be a witch hunt, in which to be fair, a rollback would be set in place, and indeed a rollback was used.

Um, I'm fairly sure Nexon has much better ways to "witch hunt" people who bought dupes. For example, buying them from shops! Those are hella easy to track, compared to individual transactions. They can also find anomalies in the packets and inventory. For example:

Code:

[001798853] gains White Scroll (1:1)
[001798853] drops White Scroll (1)
[001798853] gains White Scroll (1:2)
[001798853] drops White Scroll (1)
[001798853] gains White Scroll (1:3)
[001798853] drops White Scroll (1)
[001798853] gains White Scroll (1:4)
[001798853] drops White Scroll (1)
[001798853] gains White Scroll (1:5)
[001798853] drops White Scroll (1)
[001798853] gains White Scroll (1:6)

I highly doubt that's what their logs look like btw, I'm just making it up.

Nevertheless, a rollback did happen like you said; but people still got banned, and a few innocent people got banned too, since some dupes looked as though they were legit. Actually some people got banned due to buying legit White Scrolls.

I don't see the connection with your water bottle situation and your white scroll situation btw.

Bottled water = something you really want. (ignore the fact that it is "necessary" since you could have just gotten a drink at the drinking fountain nearby)
White Scroll = something you really want.

Tainted bottled water = something bad, and you could delude yourself and think it's safe until the FDA told you.
Duped Whites = something bad, but you can pretend to be innocent until Nexon says otherwise (aka first wave of dupes).

FDA = lord of all foods and drugs in America.
Nexon = lord of all things MapleStory.

Vacation = your happy place.
MapleStory = your happy place. IN CYBERSPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (srry had to do that xD)

Consequences of not playing it safe in both situations = you get bit in the ass.

Blew up both of my Gach Noses Well ruined more or less in better terms... There goes the 6 Dex >.<
Too bad. my Pirate coulda used the extra Str.

Im surpised word of this got around so fast as well, well not really no more.
Theres laways hope Nexon will break the game more and Add the 10Atk Ice Cream Bar.

there's no way to predetermine what stats (e.g. dex, str) the sap gives to the nose right?

The sap is like a chaos scroll. That means, an item without any LUK can't gain any LUK. An item with DEX can gain or lose DEX (As long dex < 255)

The sap is like a chaos scroll. That means, an item without any LUK can't gain any LUK. An item with DEX can gain or lose DEX (As long dex < 255)

I remember some CMS h4x0rz created a lvl 1 weapon that had 480 wdef and mdef or something like that. Who knows if you can go above 255 though =/

I remember some CMS h4x0rz created a lvl 1 weapon that had 480 wdef and mdef or something like that. Who knows if you can go above 255 though =/

In JMS, the limit was 255 (+3 HT pendant had 255 wdef). I think that's reasonable to give each stat 1 byte of information. But yeah, you're right, who knows?

KajitiSouls quotes Harrisonized on the Bigfoot glitch, and formulates a response saying why he disapproves of Harrisonized's views.

Harrisonized quotes KajitiSouls and counters that he doesn't see why Liar Tree Saps have nothing to do with trickery.

I read over your example again and I still have no idea how you can form such a connection. In your example, the intention was tricking someone into drinking the Sprite, and then telling that someone that the Sprite was spiked. You think a company would intentionally trick their own customers into getting banned? Nexon has better things to do than to kill off their own customers.

Eh? That's just you dancing around pretending not to look in the right direction.

Define the "right" direction.

Um, I'm fairly sure Nexon has much better ways to "witch hunt" people who bought dupes. For example, buying them from shops! Those are hella easy to track, compared to individual transactions. They can also find anomalies in the packets and inventory. For example:

Code:

[001798853] gains White Scroll (1:1)
[001798853] drops White Scroll (1)
[001798853] gains White Scroll (1:2)
[001798853] drops White Scroll (1)
[001798853] gains White Scroll (1:3)
[001798853] drops White Scroll (1)
[001798853] gains White Scroll (1:4)
[001798853] drops White Scroll (1)
[001798853] gains White Scroll (1:5)
[001798853] drops White Scroll (1)
[001798853] gains White Scroll (1:6)

I highly doubt that's what their logs look like btw, I'm just making it up.

Nevertheless, a rollback did happen like you said; but people still got banned, and a few innocent people got banned too, since some dupes looked as though they were legit. Actually some people got banned due to buying legit White Scrolls.

How would you know that they were legit white scrolls? The point is that you don't and you can't, because Nexon never made ID numbers attached to individual items. ALL the duped items appear the same to Nexon.

Thus, there must have been some method (such as using more than x amount of white scrolls during the period) that would allow them to distinguish (whether accurate or not) who to ban or not. It's unfortunate, but that's a risk that several people have already taken.

However, on the brighter side, since there is no method at which Nexon can distinguish who was using legit white scrolls or duped ones, they cannot issue a permanent ban.

Bottled water = something you really want. (ignore the fact that it is "necessary" since you could have just gotten a drink at the drinking fountain nearby)
White Scroll = something you really want.

Tainted bottled water = something bad, and you could delude yourself and think it's safe until the FDA told you.
Duped Whites = something bad, but you can pretend to be innocent until Nexon says otherwise (aka first wave of dupes).

FDA = lord of all foods and drugs in America.
Nexon = lord of all things MapleStory.

Vacation = your happy place.
MapleStory = your happy place. IN CYBERSPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (srry had to do that xD)

Consequences of not playing it safe in both situations = you get bit in the ass.

Using consequences to explain something is the same as using hindsight as an explanation. It's like losing a slot machine and then watching someone else win on a different machine, then saying "I should've played that machine instead and I'd have the payout."

Hindsight explanations don't work for me. So far, the only thing that has caught my attention in the 5 pages of this thread is that other versions have the nose, and they work on only their event noses. However, that's not convincing to me as some "glitches" (that people are so quick to come to the conclusion of) have actually become features. As mentioned in one of the threads before, HP washing are both glitches that became features. This may well end up the same way, since it requires a gachapon item.

How would you know that they were legit white scrolls? The point is that you don't and you can't, because Nexon never made ID numbers attached to individual items. ALL the duped items appear the same to Nexon.

Thus, there must have been some method (such as using more than x amount of white scrolls during the period) that would allow them to distinguish (whether accurate or not) who to ban or not. It's unfortunate, but that's a risk that several people have already taken.

However, on the brighter side, since there is no method at which Nexon can distinguish who was using legit white scrolls or duped ones, they cannot issue a permanent ban.

I think we should stop with our assumptions and whatnot. How do you know how Nexon works with this? Do they log this, or do they not? How do they log it?

We don't.

Let me care to elaborate. Assuming Nexon has less than 16 million characters, we may assume the following:

• Each character would equal to a 3-byte hash
  
• Each item in-game has a 2-byte hash
  
• Arrows stack @ 1000 per = 2 byte max.
  
• An efficient way of knowing the approximate time when the the trade happened may be stored in 1 byte.
  

Now, that means Nexon needs at most 11 bytes per item transferred, if they don't want to include mesos transferred. If they do, whooy, 15 bytes instead.

Let's estimate 1 million transfers a day, which to me sound like a lot. That equals to 15 million bytes, or 14.3 MiB a day. That data amount is literally nothing in a year: A mere 5 GiB of information. That's what I'm able to get on my freaking memory stick if I .rar that piece of shi-.[*]

Now, as I totally know this is "completely" useless theory, I'll explain why:
Why is it that an equip keeps its stats even when it's dropped or traded? According to you, Nexon never had ID-numbers attached to individual items. Yet the "Tiger's Spear" keeps its name-tag. How is this parsed?

And is usable items, etc, (cash etc...) based on ID too? How do cash-items manage to know when they're supposed to expire? The fact is, most of these answers, if not all, we don't know!

And, since we don't know, none of you can go state "Hey, but since they know who's duped and bought items..." or "Hey, since they don't know who's duped or bought items..."
That's because we can't base those statements on assumptions.

 * (Yeah, I know this idea may be tweaked more)

This is based on a very "inefficient" way of storing information btw. We could eventually split the bytes into bits. That shouldn't make a change in the two character-hashes, but for all the others, that would mean:

• Two character hashes: 48 bits. 0 saved.
  
• Assuming less than 8000 items in-game: 13 bits. 3 bits saved.
  
• Arrows stack @ 1000: This may be packed into 10 bits. 6 saved.
  
• Approximate time may be even more approximate: 1 bit. 7 saved.
  
• Signed integer may be converted to unsigned: 31 bit. 1 saved.
  

That's 103 out of the former 120 bits, or approx. 15% space saved.

Keep in mind that this would require more processing-power to go through the data however

Except there aren't 2 versions, they put the event item in gach without an expiry time. It used to be called ??? ??, now it's called Tree Branch Nose and is from a quest and expires.

Oh. I wasn't sure if items could use the same ID and have one expire and one not. :X

As far as destroying all of them, that's unfair. :/

The point is that you don't and you can't, because Nexon never made ID numbers attached to individual items. ALL the duped items appear the same to Nexon.

Equips have ID numbers. I can't think how else they would manage so many equips with different stats. If you were to dupe equips, it should theoretically be possible to purge the database of all equips with the same ID numbers. Stacks of items are stacks of items, though.

I'm not proposing that. I'm saying that it is possible. With such doubt in mind, one cannot call either a glitch.

But in both situations, there is still no 'innocent'. Clearly there is no way that everything is working as intended, so why favor one possible situation over another?

And yes, you ARE favoring your explanation. Your position of "cannot be determined, therefore we can't say it's a glitch" isn't really valid. Let me explain:

Say there are three bottles of water in front of you (lol @ all the water bottles in this thread), and you know that two of them are poisoned, but not which ones. Are you going to pick up one and try to drink it ("we aren't sure that this one's poisoned, so we can't say it is"...), or are you going to play it safe and find water elsewhere?

Even if it can become a feature like HP washing has (and I honestly do not see any reason why it should), it can also become bannable.

So this is a "known" glitch, and the clean slate glitch wasn't? We both knew the clean slate glitch was a glitch. In fact, you even described it to me as a glitch when I was still calling it a feature.

Key word: wasn't. If you notice what part he was replying to, Retalion is referring to back when he tested the glitch (even before we knew it worked and you were asserting that it was a feature).

I read over your example again and I still have no idea how you can form such a connection. In your example, the intention was tricking someone into drinking the Sprite, and then telling that someone that the Sprite was spiked. You think a company would intentionally trick their own customers into getting banned? Nexon has better things to do than to kill off their own customers.

Part of the original purpose of the first example was to parody your logic (oh wait you have none >_>). "Hey, Nexon didn't say it's a glitch, so it's not a glitch!" Doesn't matter if they intended to deceive you or not. Deception is going around anyways.

Define the "right" direction.

*facepalms* Not the direction you're looking, based on that statement. And it's not sin(-PI/2) either. Just for your entertainment, the "right" direction is staying on the argument point's subject which I specifically criticized you on. I originally quoted you on your example thinking on the BF glitch:

1) The bigfoot glitch wasn't a glitch until they declared it a glitch. Only people gaining more than a certain ratio of exp gain after the announcement were banned for misconduct, and even so, misconduct bans don't take you off rankings.

There's nothing here about Tree Saps, and I mentioned nothing about Tree Saps. Why you responded to my criticism with

Using Liar Tree Saps has nothing to do with trickery.

is almost a complete mystery to me.

How would you know that they were legit white scrolls? The point is that you don't and you can't, because Nexon never made ID numbers attached to individual items. ALL the duped items appear the same to Nexon.

Thus, there must have been some method (such as using more than x amount of white scrolls during the period) that would allow them to distinguish (whether accurate or not) who to ban or not. It's unfortunate, but that's a risk that several people have already taken.

That is an incredibly naive assumption to make. How would you know that Nexon never made ID numbers attached to individual items? This is a black box scenario; you can't just tell people what's inside the box, because you can't, and never will. Same applies for me: I can't tell you for a fact what's in the box. I took a shot in the dark, and you decided mine was wrong and proposed your own shot in the dark. Both ideas work (to a degree), but is that what Nexon really used? But it's a reasonable assumption that Nexon would have some server-side security, whatever it may be.

Furthermore, GMs aren't a myth. They would have definitely seen something going on, and I highly doubt that they're stupid enough to not know that something wrong is going on with an item as rare and valuable and coveted as a White Scroll, as you're lucky enough to even see ONE in the FM (during non-event periods).

However, on the brighter side, since there is no method at which Nexon can distinguish who was using legit white scrolls or duped ones, they cannot issue a permanent ban.

GMs can always issue a permanent ban.

Also, depending on the details and security of their game, they could deduce beyond a shadow of a doubt that someone was duping White Scrolls. It's a lot like proving something in math.

Using consequences to explain something is the same as using hindsight as an explanation. It's like losing a slot machine and then watching someone else win on a different machine, then saying "I should've played that machine instead and I'd have the payout."

Hindsight explanations don't work for me. So far, the only thing that has caught my attention in the 5 pages of this thread is that other versions have the nose, and they work on only their event noses. However, that's not convincing to me as some "glitches" (that people are so quick to come to the conclusion of) have actually become features. As mentioned in one of the threads before, HP washing are both glitches that became features. This may well end up the same way, since it requires a gachapon item.

[COLOR="Red"]Not really. Hindsight is looking back at something in the past, whereas consequences can be irrespective of time. You can actually PREDICT consequences. In the example I wrote out, you could have stopped yourself when you figured something was funny about the water. You weren't completely dumbfounded when you learned for sure what the consequences would have been.

Did you not read the amount of parallels there were in my example? There is nothing in there relying on luck either.

Also, since I have the feeling I'm not looking at this in the same perspective you are, care to give an example relating to either the BF glitch or the White Scroll dupes?[/COLOR]

I don't remember Nexon ever having made an official address. If such a thing exists, please do show it kindly.

Seriously, we all use common sense. Only yours lets you go on the dangerous side, and your id lets greed override your decisions.

I think we should stop with our assumptions and whatnot. How do you know how Nexon works with this? Do they log this, or do they not? How do they log it?

We don't.

Let me care to elaborate. Assuming Nexon has less than 16 million characters, we may assume the following:

• Each character would equal to a 3-byte hash
  
• Each item in-game has a 2-byte hash
  
• Arrows stack @ 1000 per = 2 byte max.
  
• An efficient way of knowing the approximate time when the the trade happened may be stored in 1 byte.
  

Now, that means Nexon needs at most 11 bytes per item transferred, if they don't want to include mesos transferred. If they do, whooy, 15 bytes instead.

Let's estimate 1 million transfers a day, which to me sound like a lot. That equals to 15 million bytes, or 14.3 MiB a day. That data amount is literally nothing in a year: A mere 5 GiB of information. That's what I'm able to get on my freaking memory stick if I .rar that piece of shi-.[*]

Now, as I totally know this is "completely" useless theory, I'll explain why:
Why is it that an equip keeps its stats even when it's dropped or traded? According to you, Nexon never had ID-numbers attached to individual items. Yet the "Tiger's Spear" keeps its name-tag. How is this parsed?

And is usable items, etc, (cash etc...) based on ID too? How do cash-items manage to know when they're supposed to expire? The fact is, most of these answers, if not all, we don't know!

And, since we don't know, none of you can go state "Hey, but since they know who's duped and bought items..." or "Hey, since they don't know who's duped or bought items..."
That's because we can't base those statements on assumptions.

You present a good argument. I'll lay off with the assumptions, I guess, though it greatly bothers me when someone forces me to "assume" that this is a glitch because it is "common sense". That kind of logic generally drives me to think in the opposite direction.

Equips have ID numbers. I can't think how else they would manage so many equips with different stats. If you were to dupe equips, it should theoretically be possible to purge the database of all equips with the same ID numbers. Stacks of items are stacks of items, though.

Equips may have ID numbers, but perhaps not. Wouldn't it save more space to have ALL equipment that are (exactly) 5luk 36atk 2def Blue Scarabs share the same ID number? Then if you use a scroll to alter the stats, then the ID number changes.

For example:
Nexon makes an ID number for each of the Blue Rabs:
4~6 LUK
32~37 atk
0~2 def
That's 54 ID numbers for 54 different items.
Now when a scroll is used, more ID numbers are generated until the item is destroyed, in which event the item's ID number would vanish until by chance the ID number is revived.

This is only my theory. Since there are hundreds of equips, potentially thousands, then it'd make more sense to have such shared ID numbers?

But in both situations, there is still no 'innocent'. Clearly there is no way that everything is working as intended, so why favor one possible situation over another?

And yes, you ARE favoring your explanation. Your position of "cannot be determined, therefore we can't say it's a glitch" isn't really valid. Let me explain:

Seriously, stop saying I favor one view. That's like saying Atheism is a religion when it's the lack of religion.

I'm presenting more than one ways to view this situations to tell people to stop assuming. The way I view this is that sapping your branch nose is a function of the game. It does that regardless of intention. Nonglitch is merely a label because we cannot assume it's a glitch.

Say there are three bottles of water in front of you (lol @ all the water bottles in this thread), and you know that two of them are poisoned, but not which ones. Are you going to pick up one and try to drink it ("we aren't sure that this one's poisoned, so we can't say it is"...), or are you going to play it safe and find water elsewhere?

The problem with this it that you KNOW that two of them are poisoned. You don't know for this case. You can speculate but you cannot know for certain.

Even if it can become a feature like HP washing has (and I honestly do not see any reason why it should), it can also become bannable.

Again, I already agreed to this, so why bring it up again.

So this is a "known" glitch, and the clean slate glitch wasn't? We both knew the clean slate glitch was a glitch. In fact, you even described it to me as a glitch when I was still calling it a feature.

Key word: wasn't. If you notice what part he was replying to, Retalion is referring to back when he tested the glitch (even before we knew it worked and you were asserting that it was a feature).

No. At the time, Jackk and I didn't know whether or not it worked. However, we did have opposing views on the situation. While I was calling it a feature, Jackk was calling it a glitch. However, there was no evidence at the time of it working or not, and since this was all speculation, we could rationalize that we're doing it for "good intent" and to "satisfy curiosity" and thus I talked Jackk into trying it.

I don't see how the keyword is "wasn't" because it was later clearly a glitch when Nexon decided to change the way the white scrolls worked.

Part of the original purpose of the first example was to parody your logic (oh wait you have none >_>).

Don't include flame-like witticisms. I experience enough of that during the day.

"Hey, Nexon didn't say it's a glitch, so it's not a glitch!" Doesn't matter if they intended to deceive you or not. Deception is going around anyways.

That's great. It's unfortunate that your view of this is so pessimistic.

*facepalms* Not the direction you're looking, based on that statement. And it's not sin(-PI/2) either. Just for your entertainment, the "right" direction is staying on the argument point's subject which I specifically criticized you on.

Again, don't use sarcasm on me.

I originally quoted you on your example thinking on the BF glitch:

1) The bigfoot glitch wasn't a glitch until they declared it a glitch. Only people gaining more than a certain ratio of exp gain after the announcement were banned for misconduct, and even so, misconduct bans don't take you off rankings.

There's nothing here about Tree Saps, and I mentioned nothing about Tree Saps. Why you responded to my criticism with

Using Liar Tree Saps has nothing to do with trickery.

is almost a complete mystery to me.

I responded to your example in which you told me there was a can of Sprite and after drinking the can, you told me there was HCl in the can. That's trickery.

I mentioned tree saps because that's what this thread is about. I can't see any link to tree saps either. You're merely trying to attack my beliefs about the Bigfoot glitch rather than addressing what this thread originally was about, which is the tree sap situation.

That is an incredibly naive assumption to make. How would you know that Nexon never made ID numbers attached to individual items? This is a black box scenario; you can't just tell people what's inside the box, because you can't, and never will. Same applies for me: I can't tell you for a fact what's in the box. I took a shot in the dark, and you decided mine was wrong and proposed your own shot in the dark. Both ideas work (to a degree), but is that what Nexon really used? But it's a reasonable assumption that Nexon would have some server-side security, whatever it may be.

I seem to forget a vital word in my haste: may. Sorry about that. Please reread the quote with my edit:

How would you know that they were legit white scrolls? The point is that you don't and you can't, because Nexon may have never made ID numbers attached to individual items. ALL the duped items could appear the same to Nexon.

Thus, assuming that, there must have been some method (such as using more than x amount of white scrolls during the period) that would allow them to distinguish (whether accurate or not) who to ban or not. It's unfortunate, but that's a risk that several people have already taken.

Furthermore, GMs aren't a myth. They would have definitely seen something going on, and I highly doubt that they're stupid enough to not know that something wrong is going on with an item as rare and valuable and coveted as a White Scroll, as you're lucky enough to even see ONE in the FM (during non-event periods).

Then please explain why the many of the wolf spider hackers don't get banned until their 17x, HT cave is still killed by hackers, and why the FM can be freely DCed. Nexon may be more naive than you think.

GMs can always issue a permanent ban.

Also, depending on the details and security of their game, they could deduce beyond a shadow of a doubt that someone was duping White Scrolls.

They could. Hypothetically, they could ban you for anything they find incorrect, terminate your service at any time for any reason, according to the ToS, but if they do that, it would be very bad publicity.

It's a lot like proving something in math.

Eh? It's more like logic. Math proofs have nothing to do with this.

Not really. Hindsight is looking back at something in the past, whereas consequences can be irrespective of time. You can actually PREDICT consequences. In the example I wrote out, you could have stopped yourself when you figured something was funny about the water. You weren't completely dumbfounded when you learned for sure what the consequences would have been.

You keep referencing the Bigfoot glitch and the Clean Slate glitch. That's hindsight, because now you know it's a glitch.

Did you not read the amount of parallels there were in my example? There is nothing in there relying on luck either.

The point isn't the slot machine, it's looking back to say that you shouldn't have, could have.

Also, since I have the feeling I'm not looking at this in the same perspective you are, care to give an example relating to either the BF glitch or the White Scroll dupes?

No. Really I don't know why many of the people feel they must attack me on something that happened in the past when this thread has nothing to do with them.

I don't remember Nexon ever having made an official address. If such a thing exists, please do show it kindly.

If silence speaks conformity, yes.

Seriously, we all use common sense. Only yours lets you go on the dangerous side, and your id lets greed override your decisions.

My id is well repressed. I laugh, because I have no greedy intentions. If I did, would I have only killed bigfoot to assist my friends in gaining toes? Would I have used 400m to gain 1int on my cape and risk getting banned when I could have gotten an egg on my HTP with the same amount of money? If I did, would I even bother arguing this position in this thread when I can just spend my time elsewhere?

You decide for yourself. Stop going off topic to discuss my intentions. This thread is called "Liar Tree Sap 100%" for a reason.

Seriously, stop saying I favor one view. That's like saying Atheism is a religion when it's the lack of religion.

I'm presenting more than one ways to view this situations to tell people to stop assuming.

Assuming it is a nonglitch (and therefore safe to use) is as much of an assumption as assuming it is not.

The way I view this is that sapping your branch nose is a function of the game. It does that regardless of intention. Nonglitch is merely a label because we cannot assume it's a glitch.

It is not merely a label if you use it to justify an action.

The problem with this it that you KNOW that two of them are poisoned. You don't know for this case. You can speculate but you cannot know for certain.

But what matters is the one you (or Nexon) selected, not the other two. You don't know that that is poisoned. You can speculate but you cannot know for certain (yet).

Again, I already agreed to this, so why bring it up again.

Because 'bannable' is the poisoned bottle and 'assimilated feature' is the safe one. If you weren't so intent on breaking posts into little chunks, this would be fairly obvious.

No. At the time, Jackk and I didn't know whether or not it worked. However, we did have opposing views on the situation. While I was calling it a feature, Jackk was calling it a glitch. However, there was no evidence at the time of it working or not, and since this was all speculation, we could rationalize that we're doing it for "good intent" and to "satisfy curiosity" and thus I talked Jackk into trying it.

I don't see how the keyword is "wasn't" because it was later clearly a glitch when Nexon decided to change the way the white scrolls worked.

You clearly missed the point I was trying to make, so I won't bother replying to this.

And, though this wasn't directed at me..

Eh? It's more like logic. Math proofs have nothing to do with this.

Math and logic have everything to do with each other.

So if you suddenly wake up tomorrow, and snails give 3000000 exp each instead of the normal 3 exp, it's not a glitch until Nexon says it is?

So if you suddenly wake up tomorrow, and snails give 3000000 exp each instead of the normal 3 exp, it's not a glitch until Nexon says it is?

Yes, obviously. Nexon gave us the 3m experience snails, so it's our duty as players to use the content they give us. After all, there is the possibility, albeit far-fetched, that this was intended, right?

Assuming it is a nonglitch (and therefore safe to use) is as much of an assumption as assuming it is not.

It is not merely a label if you use it to justify an action.

Ok. You got me there.

But what matters is the one you (or Nexon) selected, not the other two. You don't know that that is poisoned. You can speculate but you cannot know for certain (yet).

Yea, the keyword is "yet". If you want to play it safe, go ahead. Don't go telling me to. >_>

Because 'bannable' is the poisoned bottle and 'assimilated feature' is the safe one. If you weren't so intent on breaking posts into little chunks, this would be fairly obvious.

LOL, rubbing it into me now eh?

You clearly missed the point I was trying to make, so I won't bother replying to this.

The point that you were making is that it wasn't a "known" glitch, but then I said that if people already call it a glitch, "how is it not known". The same thing is appearing in this thread over and over, because people are so bent on defining this as a glitch even though it "wasn't known" yet.

Math and logic have everything to do with each other.

Nope. Math and logic may be correlated but they certainly do not have everything to do with each other. Logic is open to interpretation, whereas math is strict.

So if you suddenly wake up tomorrow, and snails give 3000000 exp each instead of the normal 3 exp, it's not a glitch until Nexon says it is?

Yes.

Yes, obviously. Nexon gave us the 3m experience snails, so it's our duty as players to use the content they give us. After all, there is the possibility, albeit far-fetched, that this was intended, right?

Yes, if they did that, it was intended. However, Nexon generally doesn't make stupid mistakes like that, the only instances that I recall in the past year where Nexon made such were the Bigfoot glitch and the Boomer design.

A better example would be this: As you know, Nexon let Chaos Scrolls and Helm Int 60%s drop from monsters, and they let GM scrolls come from an exchange quest that is easily completable. Would you call both glitches?

So if you suddenly wake up tomorrow, and snails give 3000000 exp each instead of the normal 3 exp, it's not a glitch until Nexon says it is?

they actually gave to a very few bandits billions and billions meru and yet Harrisonized would have stand it was legit until the server check that occured shortly after this. thank you kMS

Harrisonized, I'm sorry, I usually never try to put bad words on people but you, my friend, are intelligent but yet so stupid, intelligent because you are smart and your post would make sense but so stupid by insulting the intellingence of other people on this board
try to spend a few time understanding the definition of sophism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophism
you abuse this concept a little too much and that's what is insulting the intellingence of other people on this board

<sacarsm>
yeah for sure Nexon was meaning to put BF poisonable :f6:
</sarcasm

The point that you were making is that it wasn't a "known" glitch, but then I said that if people already call it a glitch, "how is it not known". The same thing is appearing in this thread over and over, because people are so bent on defining this as a glitch even though it "wasn't known" yet.

Whoosh.

This is from Retalion's original post on the topic:

I dont abuse glitches. In my opinion, this is a Known glitch, hence I wouldnt touch it. WHatever we just bet, you lost, hand over the money.

At the time, the clean slate glitch wasn't 'known' - that is to say, no one was sure whether it would work or not, or why, so he went out and tested it. This one is more understood, mainly because of the 'other versions' tidbit and also because it's just more straightforward why it works.

It's of no relevance whether it's considered a glitch now or not (and that's not even what he meant by 'known glitch' in the first place..), because he was testing it then. Not now.

And you seem to have completely missed the sarcasm in my last post (which wasn't directed toward you at all, may I add).

Harrisonized, I'm sorry, I usually never try to put bad words on people but you, my friend, are intelligent but yet so stupid, intelligent because you are smart and your post would make sense but so stupid by insulting the intellingence of other people on this board
try to spend a few time understanding the definition of sophism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophism
you abuse this concept a little too much and that's what is insulting the intellingence of other people on this board

First, how am I insulting the intelligence of the other posters? My logic makes sense. (at least to me.)

Also, whatever Sophism is (after reading the wikipedia), I certainly am not using illogical arguments to deceive people.

At the time, the clean slate glitch wasn't 'known' - that is to say, no one was sure whether it would work or not, or why, so he went out and tested it. This one is more understood, mainly because of the 'other versions' tidbit and also because it's just more straightforward why it works.

Wrong. At the time, we already formed speculations. Cyanne had hit the nail on the point by saying that the White scroll adds back the slot when the scroll fails.

All we lacked was screenshot confirmation. Jackk's goal was to provide that for us.

Wrong. At the time, we already formed speculations. Cyanne had hit the nail on the point by saying that the White scroll adds back the slot when the scroll fails.

All we lacked was screenshot confirmation. Jackk provided that for us.

Okay.
At any rate, he was testing if your speculations were correct, which they were. Before that, they were just that - speculations. If it was known and proven that white slating indeed worked that way, I doubt he would have gone to the trouble of testing it.