Summarized %/s List

meaning.. the range added is fake, and % total damage still works the same as last time? :f6:

it's not really fake, it just changes the known truth of "boss and total damage are acknowledged by multiplying your range"

although if you get into the very math of it, good chance it truly is fake, since %total damage affects the end damage, not the range before multipliers (since it's a multiplier itself) :U

In that case, % of what, exactly, are they showing?

I mean, if they say some class does 20,000%/s, they can't mean % of the damage range displayed in the user stats (like you do), since that includes the weapon multiplier already. So, % of what?

%of raw stats, they're taking into account anything that differs between classes, the same way a Dark knight will have a 14900 range while a mage would have a 10000 range with equips of the same magnitude, they account for this by saying that the dark knight is 149% as strong as a mage (as an example)

how accurate their numbers are however, who knows.

JoeTang can you do a summary table like this one but for multiple monster instead? like 4 or 6 monster.

For the WA DPM, is that after their nerf or before? Thank you!

I eagerly await the new % changes.

Change Log

• Accidentally deleted entire thread with no backup [18/01/13]
  
• Updated GMS Kaiser to include Majesty of Kaiser resetting Final Trance [19/01/13]
  
• Updated Cannon Shooter's Buckshot to be 40% damage, not -40% (60%) damage. [04/02/13]
  
• Added Thunder Breaker [04/02/13]
  
• Added Wind Archer [28/02/13]
  
• Fixed Thunder Breaker's Ascend Thunder combo
  
• Updated Mercedes & Phantom to most recent KMS version [24/03/13]
  
• Fixed Shadower's Venom damage and Wind Archer's Spiral Vortex[27/03/13]
  
• Removed Wind Archer Spiral Vortex as it is redundant [02/04/13]
  
• Updated Kaiser, Angelic Buster, and Luminous for GMS [05/04/13]
  
• Updated Hayato with max defense and fixed the DoT [05/04/13]
  
• Added Dawn Warrior [29/04/13]
  
• Updated Blade Masters Final Cut to be multiplicative [29/04/13]
  
• Updated the majority of the table for the values in my most recent tables. Let me know if you think anything is off and I will investigate. [23/05/13]
  
• Updated Aran and Battle Mage; the last table seemed to use an SE value for Arans [17/06/13]
  

After 24/03, Merc and Phantom continued to receive major buffs that significantly affect 1v1 DPS:

Merc:
Advanced Final Attack (4th): Damage increased to 240% (which greatly increases DPS of Ishtar Ring).
Unicorn Spike (3rd): debuff will no longer be removed after a certain number of hits, it will stay for its entire duration (meaning Ishtar Ring damage +10%)
Elvish Blessing (Hyper): duration has been increased from 30 seconds to 60 seconds (now 2/3 of time weapon attack +80)
Defense Break: new effects of 30% max critical damage and 15% boss damage have been added (enough said)
Lightning Edge: new effect has been added where when used on a boss, a debuff will be applied for 10 seconds that increases Ring of Ishtar’s damage by 20% and ignores the boss’s touch damage

Phantom:
Acute Sense (3rd): critical chance has been increased from 30% to 35%
Pray of Aria (4th): damage boost has been increased from 20% to 30%

I believe these will change the positions of these two jobs in your chart drastically. Merc DPS should increases around 50%, helping her to climb up at least 20 steps. Maybe you can consider to update the chart.

After 24/03, Merc and Phantom continued to receive major buffs that significantly affect 1v1 DPS:

Merc:
Advanced Final Attack (4th): Damage increased to 240% (which greatly increases DPS of Ishtar Ring).
Unicorn Spike (3rd): debuff will no longer be removed after a certain number of hits, it will stay for its entire duration (meaning Ishtar Ring damage +10%)
Elvish Blessing (Hyper): duration has been increased from 30 seconds to 60 seconds (now 2/3 of time weapon attack +80)
Defense Break: new effects of 30% max critical damage and 15% boss damage have been added (enough said)
Lightning Edge: new effect has been added where when used on a boss, a debuff will be applied for 10 seconds that increases Ring of Ishtar’s damage by 20% and ignores the boss’s touch damage

Phantom:
Acute Sense (3rd): critical chance has been increased from 30% to 35%
Pray of Aria (4th): damage boost has been increased from 20% to 30%

I believe these will change the positions of these two jobs in your chart drastically. Merc DPS should increases around 50%, helping her to climb up at least 20 steps. Maybe you can consider to update the chart.

I'm pretty sure that the %s in the chart at the moment already apply all of those changes except the Defense Break and Lightning Edge changes for Mercedes. For the current Mercedes % (after those two previously mentioned chnages), just check out the first post in the Archer %/s thread. Phantom %s already account for the Acute Sense and Pray of Aria buff. Now Phantoms need to be tested to find out which skills are ideal to steal after the RED Explorer Revamp, which will take some time to figure out which skills can be stolen and which skills are ideal for %/s.

With a table of buffed and unbuffed ranges of all classes (using standardized equipment such as a level 100 weapon and nothing else), the DPM rankings can be determined.

I mention this because after seeing Xenon's nerf (placing them at ~10000%), I assumed it is now a mediocre class. However, it seems that they have a high unbuffed/buffed range. This means despite their low %damage, they would rank high on a DPM list. This is not based on analytical evidence, just my hypothesis from observations.

With a table of buffed and unbuffed ranges of all classes (using standardized equipment such as a level 100 weapon and nothing else), the DPM rankings can be determined.

I mention this because after seeing Xenon's nerf (placing them at ~10000%), I assumed it is now a mediocre class. However, it seems that they have a high unbuffed/buffed range. This means despite their low %damage, they would rank high on a DPM list. This is not based on analytical evidence, just my hypothesis from observations.

except that cheap standardized equipments don't accurately portray dpm. for example, lvl 100 claw has 46 atk, while lvl 100 staff has 121 m.atk. this would almost certainly make a mage have higher range than a sin. however, with a difference of 75 atk, when comparing 400 total atk to 475 total m.atk (more realistic values for an averagely-funded character), you see that the sin FAR outranges the mage, because of the 1.75 multiplier.

that's why i propose, if we were to actually do something like this (i might be able to on my spare time), I propose that we set out a standard base attack and stats (say, 2000 main stat, 200 secondary stat, and 320 atk) and then add on the clean stats of the weapon and other equips unique to each class (since all scrolls are the same, those are included in the base stats). that would make the mage have 441 atk unbuffed, while the sin would have only 366 atk unbuffed, which sounds about right.

You would have to assume that the attack and stat values you input are valid though. It gets pretty subjective even if you account for everything and have multiple sets of standards for different funding levels.

For the lvl 100 comparison the NL still beats the Mage, since you forgot the star.

yea, it beats it, but not NEARLY as significantly as the 400 attack comparison (lol can't believe i forgot star though after playing a sin for 5 years xD)

making multiple sets of standards WOULD be the best way to go though, since it wouldn't at all be difficult to change them if i actually programmed it...

speaking of which...

@JoeTang do you mind releasing your code for shadower? i'm planning on making my own program to calculate dps, but i'm not 100% sure on how some things work (like can poison damage be increased by ANYTHING at all, or is it always 160% of your range/second, and do passives that say they increase the damage of skills (e.g. increase the damage of carnival edge by 25%) count as total damage, or are they multipliers? while i could ask these things individually, i think the simplest way to do it if you're willing, would be to release your shadower code since that has almost everything i'm unsure of.

even with standardized equipment. it cannot capture everything correctly. one is how to interpret Xenon and Demon Avenger whos ap builds are slightly skewed. these jobs also get more gains off of very specific items then other jobs do. Some jobs have a better equipment/actual range growth than others. Damage range isn't really linear, its pretty skewed. some classes have better dpm with dirt poor armor but is crap with god tier armor compared with other jobs.


for example, dusk's retired dpm chart in the later phases actually had armor funding level in tiers. one could literally see the tiers move when changing funding levels.


I'd probably refer to this as scaling. For example, Luminous at poor armor levels did a pretty decent amount of damage, bossing wise, hes pretty poor due to bad scaling. Xenon's armor scaling is probably the best, as he benefits the most from equipment changes.

yes, and we can capture all this important information such as scaling with tiers.

also, we don't necessarily have to include xenon and demon avenger for now, we can simply ignore them until we come up with a fair solution.

furthermore, the tiers don't have to be the same for every class. what i'm thinking of would be like having a chart for each class of their dps with certain attack/stats, and the reader would be the one to actually compare. we don't necessarily have to rank them ourselves (lol why does this sound like i'm on a team when atm i feel like i'm going to be soloing this). in fact, it would be near impossible to actually rank them ourselves, considering how different stats have different prices (%str costs twice as much as %dex in bera for example, and prices would also be different in every world)

if we simply supply the reader with the raw damage with different stats, they'd be able to compare for themselves by seeing how much stats they could get with the same amount of money for different classes, and compare their damages with that amount of money.

I take it GMS Xenon is the exact same as pre-nerf KMS Xenon?

There is, however, a flat cap of 2m~2m on a damage range

This cap has been proven to be purely visual in the stats window. The actual range is higher. %att does continue to help.

proof please?

proof please?

adding to this, preferably without any %damage skills/link skills and whatnot.

proof please?

I hope I'm understanding what's being asked here. What about that shadower who was hitting 15m lines with midnight carnival? That's a skill with 138% damage.

I hope I'm understanding what's being asked here. What about that shadower who was hitting 15m lines with midnight carnival? That's a skill with 138% damage.

Total Damage isn't part of your base range.

Total Damage isn't part of your base range.

It is as of Unlimited.

I've seen Heros hitting 40m+ on regular mobs with Raging Blow with only 10% total damage. That is impossible with a real 2m range. (This is of course using a 27k attack sword and a bunch of %STR).

I've also seen the difference between using the 27k attack sword with no %str and with %str, and although the range is 2m-2m both times, the damage is significantly higher with the %str.

The problem is that for the sake of these calculations you do need to somehow normalise the ranges of all the jobs, which isn't very easy to do. Especially when you take into account the fact that ranges are different for different jobs. The amount of funding it would take to get a Xenon to 2m-2m range could easily push most other jobs into a much higher range.

It is as of Unlimited.

I've seen Heros hitting 40m+ on regular mobs with Raging Blow with only 10% total damage. That is impossible with a real 2m range. (This is of course using a 27k attack sword and a bunch of %STR).

Enrage is total damage.

The problem is that for the sake of these calculations you do need to somehow normalise the ranges of all the jobs, which isn't very easy to do.

Says who?