... Bother making a Xenon?

One question about the same topic, after the nerfs of multilateral how much did he lose? i usually just make new chars with little to no funding but it seems to me that he was gutted out and needs to be avoided like the plague.

One question about the same topic, after the nerfs of multilateral how much did he lose? i usually just make new chars with little to no funding but it seems to me that he was gutted out and needs to be avoided like the plague.

Like half his overall effectiveness. It's still a viable character technically. The only thing that really made the difference was his missiles, which everyone knew would get nerfed day one.

One question about the same topic, after the nerfs of multilateral how much did he lose? i usually just make new chars with little to no funding but it seems to me that he was gutted out and needs to be avoided like the plague.

At 200, assuming equal stats, or at least 330/330/330:
Stance: 60% -> 30% (but I think that one other skill that gave him 40% stance was increased to 50%, so it's 100% -> 80% total)
Status Resistance: 60% -> 30%
Avoidability: 60% -> 30%
Damage: 60% -> 30% (and one of his 4th job skills that provided 50% damage was reduced to 30%, so in total, it's 110% -> 60%)

At 200, assuming equal stats, or at least 330/330/330:
Stance: 60% -> 40% (but I think that one other skill that gave him 40% stance was increased to 50%, so it's 100% -> 90% total)
Status Resistance: 60% -> 40%
Avoidability: 60% -> 40%
Damage: 60% -> 40% (and one of his 4th job skills that provided 50% damage was reduced to 30%, so in total, it's 110% -> 70%)

Pretty sure it was more like this, at least according to max's blog these were the only changes to multilateral

Multilateral I (beginner): all boosts have been decreased from 5% to 3%
Multilateral III (2nd): all boosts have been decreased from 10% to 7%
Multilateral V (4th): all boosts have been decreased from 20% to 10%
Multilateral VI (4th): all boosts have been decreased from 10% to 5%

Pretty sure it was more like this, at least according to max's blog these were the only changes to multilateral

Yeah, you're right. For some reason I remember multilateral II and IV losing 5%, but I guess I just imagined that. Weird.

 Multilateral (v195)

멀티래터럴 I
Description: 직접 AP를 투자한 능력치를 일정 수치 이상 달성하면 능력치 별로 특징적인 보너스를 얻는다.
Maximum Level: 1

STR 20 이상 시 : 스탠스 3%\nDEX 20 이상 시 : 모든속성 저항 및 상태 이상 내성 3%\nLUK 20 이상 시 : 회피율 3%\nSTR/DEX/LUK 20 이상 시 : 총 데미지 3%

멀티래터럴 II
Description: 직접 AP를 투자한 능력치를 일정 수치 이상 달성하면 능력치 별로 특징적인 보너스를 얻는다.
Maximum Level: 1

STR 40 이상 시 : 스탠스 5%\nDEX 40 이상 시 : 모든속성 저항 및 상태 이상 내성 5%\nLUK 40 이상 시 : 회피율 5%\nSTR/DEX/LUK 40 이상 시 : 총 데미지 5% 증가

멀티래터럴 III
Description: 직접 AP를 투자한 능력치를 일정 수치 이상 맞추면 능력치에 따라 보너스를 받는다.\n[필요 스킬] : #c멀티래터럴 II 1레벨 이상#
Maximum Level: 1
Required Skill: 멀티래터럴 II (Level 1)

STR 90 이상 시 : 스탠스 7%\nDEX 90 이상 시 : 모든속성 저항 및 상태 이상 내성 7%\nLUK 90 이상 시 : 회피율 7%\nSTR/DEX/LUK 모두 90 이상 시 : 총 데미지 7% 증가

멀티래터럴 IV
Description: 직접 AP를 투자한 능력치를 일정 수치 이상 맞추면 능력치에 따라 보너스를 받는다.\n[필요 스킬] : #c멀티래터럴 III 1레벨 이상#
Maximum Level: 1
Required Skill: 멀티래터럴 III (Level 1)

STR 150 이상 시 : 스탠스 10%\nDEX 150 이상 시 : 모든속성 저항 및 상태 이상 내성 10%\nLUK 150 이상 시 : 회피율 10%\nSTR/DEX/LUK 모두 150 이상 시 : 총 데미지 10% 증가

멀티래터럴 V
Description: 직접 AP를 투자한 능력치를 일정 수치 이상 맞추면 능력치에 따라 보너스를 받는다.\n[필요 스킬] : #c멀티래터럴 IV 1레벨 이상#
Maximum Level: 1
Required Skill: 멀티래터럴 IV (Level 1)

STR 260 이상 시 : 스탠스 10%\nDEX 260 이상 시 : 모든속성 저항 및 상태 이상 내성 10%\nLUK 260 이상 시 : 회피율 10%\nSTR/DEX/LUK 모두 260 이상 시 : 총 데미지 10% 증가

멀티래터럴 VI
Description: 직접 AP를 투자한 능력치를 일정 수치 이상 맞추면 능력치에 따라 보너스를 받는다. 200레벨 달성 시 익힐 수 있다.\n[필요 스킬] : #c멀티래터럴 V 1레벨 이상#
Maximum Level: 1
Required Level: 200
Required Skill: 멀티래터럴 V (Level 1)

STR 330 이상 시 : 스탠스 5%\nDEX 330 이상 시 : 모든속성 저항 및 상태 이상 내성 5%\nLUK 330 이상 시 : 회피율 5%\nSTR/DEX/LUK 모두 330 이상 시 : 총 데미지 5% 증가

Those do in fact add up to 40%.

My friend is actually seriously depressed about the nerfs. It's saddening.

On topic:

I've decided that Xenon will be made, if for no other reason than to be a card mule.

My 3 card sets:

Kaiser/DrK/DS
Cannon/AB/Xenon (probably Mech over AB whenever I stop being lazy)
Mercedes/Phantom/Luminous

The third deck will be changed soon to:

Hayato/DA/Kanna

Are these condusive to a Demon Avenger's success?

i think the best set would be

MM/Hayato/Kanna
Drk/DA/DS
Mercedes/Aran/mechanic

offers

4% crit/8% min crit, 8% boss damage, 8% max hp, 4% status resistance, -5% cooldown time, 10% chance to heal 8% max hp? 20% buff time
you get the warrior set as well

My friend is actually seriously depressed about the nerfs. It's saddening.

On topic:

I've decided that Xenon will be made, if for no other reason than to be a card mule.

My 3 card sets:

Kaiser/DrK/DS
Cannon/AB/Xenon (probably Mech over AB whenever I stop being lazy)
Mercedes/Phantom/Luminous

The third deck will be changed soon to:

Hayato/DA/Kanna

Are these condusive to a Demon Avenger's success?

Replace kaiser with Aran, that 40 str doesnt work with potential, so its not worth keeping in the long run.

Set 1: Aran/Hayato/DRK
Set 2: Mechanic, Xenon & Cannoneer
Set 3: DS/DA/Kanna

i think the best set would be

MM/Hayato/Kanna
Drk/DA/DS
Mercedes/Aran/mechanic

offers

4% crit/8% min crit, 8% boss damage, 8% max hp, 4% status resistance, -5% cooldown time, 10% chance to heal 8% max hp? 20% buff time
you get the warrior set as well

But then he wont get pirate set. 20% buff duration is from lvl 200 SS card, I dont think anyone would want to lvl 100 more lvls just for 5% longer buff duration. Same goes for all other values you listed, S is where people mostly stop, not SS.

Replace kaiser with Aran, that 40 str doesnt work with potential, so its not worth keeping in the long run.

Set 1: Aran/Hayato/DRK
Set 2: Mechanic, Xenon & Cannoneer
Set 3: DS/DA/Kanna



But then he wont get pirate set. 20% buff duration is from lvl 200 SS card, I dont think anyone would want to lvl 100 more lvls just for 5% longer buff duration. Same goes for all other values you listed, S is where people mostly stop, not SS.

Its just that i find the pirate set to be over rated, and since hes maining a DA, Hes not going to be dieing that much, meaning canoneer is wasted, and Xenon card is completely useless for him. So i rather replace those cards with something more useful like mercedes/mm which give still pretty good bonuses at level 100 s cards :/

Its just that i find the pirate set to be over rated, and since hes maining a DA, Hes not going to be dieing that much, meaning canoneer is wasted, and Xenon card is completely useless for him. So i rather replace those cards with something more useful like mercedes/mm which give still pretty good bonuses at level 100 s cards :/

Its not overrated, its the best sets you can aim for and cannoneer is only used to finish the set, replaced whenever a better pirate card comes out. STR still does something, cooldown reduction doesnt matter to DA and 3% more crit chance doesnt beat 6% ignore def.

If you're gonna suggest a list of cards for a DA please make an effort to look into their skills first, mercedes & marksman does NOTHING to them.

Its not overrated, its the best sets you can aim for and cannoneer is only used to finish the set, replaced whenever a better pirate card comes out. STR still does something, cooldown reduction doesnt matter to DA and 3% more crit chance doesnt beat 6% ignore def.

If you're gonna suggest a list of cards for a DA please make an effort to look into their skills first, mercedes & marksman does NOTHING to them.

Actually it is over rated, because we are not getting kms pdr system as stated by girasol, so 6% ignore PDR isn't really all that needed. The reason why i suggested mercedes card, is because it shaves off 1 second on inhale vitality, 1 second of shield chasing, and 5 seconds off their bind skill. So it has utility unlike the CS/Xenon cards. If he wants +str then replace xenon with kaiser, because dex does nothing for DA so rather a bonus of +40 str over +25 or w.e it is .Also DA main 1 on 1 and mob move isn't 100% critical like demon impact, and they only get 20% critical from their own skills, putting them at 25% then with hyper 35% then with phantom 50%. 3-4% critical is nice and especially when you have the hayato card, since its adding minimum crit you want as much critical as possible. tbh i think the best set to aim atm would be thief set with the % min critical it can give. Please actually make sure you know what the cards do to the class before suggesting it DOES nothing plox kk

Actually it is over rated, because we are not getting kms pdr system as stated by girasol, so 6% ignore PDR isn't really all that needed. The reason why i suggested mercedes card, is because it shaves off 1 second on inhale vitality, 1 second of shield chasing, and 5 seconds off their bind skill. So it has utility unlike the CS/Xenon cards. If he wants +str then replace xenon with kaiser, because dex does nothing for DA so rather a bonus of +40 str over +25 or w.e it is .Also DA main 1 on 1 and mob move isn't 100% critical like demon impact, and they only get 20% critical from their own skills, putting them at 25% then with hyper 35% then with phantom 50%. 3-4% critical is nice and especially when you have the hayato card, since its adding minimum crit you want as much critical as possible. tbh i think the best set to aim atm would be thief set with the % min critical it can give. Please actually make sure you know what the cards do to the class before suggesting it DOES nothing plox kk

ALRIGHT LEMME GET BETWEEN YOU TWO.

- No PDR change means the PDR set is MORE worth it.

- I want Pirate and Warrior sets, both are pretty much a given.

- Mercedes is nice, but if I have to choose between Aran and Mercedes, Aran wins every time. If I havebto choose between a set and a Merc, Sets win every time.

- I would prefer to NOT make another adventurer, if it is all the same, as getting Drk to 100 was torture enough.

- Don't care if +str doesn't stack with potential, not gonna have % str.

So my card sets should be:

Aran/Kaiser/DRK
Xenon/Mech/Cannoneer
Hayato/DS/DA

Or:

Aran/Hayato/DRK
Xenon/Mech/Cannoneer
DS/DA/Kanna

I could even see making TB to replace Xenon, but losing an important set just for more CDR I'm not sure is a good idea.

Just wondering, what is DA's card? If it's not fantastic, it could be swapped for Merc.

ALRIGHT LEMME GET BETWEEN YOU TWO.

- No PDR change means the PDR set is MORE worth it.

- I want Pirate and Warrior sets, both are pretty much a given.

- Mercedes is nice, but if I have to choose between Aran and Mercedes, Aran wins every time. If I havebto choose between a set and a Merc, Sets win every time.

- I would prefer to NOT make another adventurer, if it is all the same, as getting Drk to 100 was torture enough.

- Don't care if +str doesn't stack with potential, not gonna have % str.

So my card sets should be:

Aran/Kaiser/DRK
Xenon/Mech/Cannoneer
Hayato/DS/DA

Or:

Aran/Hayato/DRK
Xenon/Mech/Cannoneer
DS/DA/Kanna

I could even see making TB to replace Xenon, but losing an important set just for more CDR I'm not sure is a good idea.

Just wondering, what is DA's card? If it's not fantastic, it could be swapped for Merc.

Go with the bottom build, DA card effect is exactly the same as kanna. Possibly replace Canoneer with TB cause, if you want -4% exp loss, just go farmville and get a grade B skeleton, because there is a limit on the littlest you can lose apparently. Somethign like 5%.
I do believe that da's only get minimum crit from their mastery, So the hayato card well boost your damage overall than +40 str from kaiser. Its just more of a given that if your going to get the hayato card, you should get the MM card, but seeing as how there is no room and you want the pirate set. Possibly switch DS card for Marksman, but you stated you dont want to level another adventurer so thats not an option. Then it comes down to 4% cool down reduction vs 3% status if you possibly want to replace the ds card. TB is a pirate, it counts toward the pirate set

ALRIGHT LEMME GET BETWEEN YOU TWO.

- No PDR change means the PDR set is MORE worth it.

It's less worth it because of the ease at which you can get to 100% (in GMS). After that any extra Ignore DEF, for example, the Pirate Set, is worthless. It'd be more worth it if we did get the Ignore DEF change because you could never have 100% Ignore and the more Ignore DEF you'd have, the better. Demon Avengers get 30% base, you can get 30% from the Leafre set, 2 15% Ignore DEF Nebulites, and a level 1 or 2 Luminous Link gets you to 100% or 105%. That's not including the 30% Ignore from Execution. And then there's the additional 30% Ignore from Armor Break, which I believe, like Threaten, Cry, Legendary Spear, would be multiplicative with your other DEF ignore sources.

Go with the bottom build, DA card effect is exactly the same as kanna. Possibly replace Canoneer with TB cause, if you want -4% exp loss, just go farmville and get a grade B skeleton, because there is a limit on the littlest you can lose apparently. Somethign like 5%.
I do believe that da's only get minimum crit from their mastery, So the hayato card well boost your damage overall than +40 str from kaiser. Its just more of a given that if your going to get the hayato card, you should get the MM card, but seeing as how there is no room and you want the pirate set. Possibly switch DS card for Marksman, but you stated you dont want to level another adventurer so thats not an option. Then it comes down to 4% cool down reduction vs 3% status if you possibly want to replace the ds card. TB is a pirate, it counts toward the pirate set

Any status resistance helps, honestly, and thus I would like to keep DS card rather than add in Merc. I could replace Kanna with Merc once my DA is 200, as well. As for Cannoneer, he's simply there to finish the set. I could replace it with TB, and prob. will.

So what you're suggesting is:

TB/Xenon/Mech
Hayato/DRK/Aran
DA/DS/Merc?

Possibly?

It's less worth it because of the ease at which you can get to 100% (in GMS). After that any extra Ignore DEF, for example, the Pirate Set, is worthless. It'd be more worth it if we did get the Ignore DEF change because you could never have 100% Ignore and the more Ignore DEF you'd have, the better. Demon Avengers get 30% base, you can get 30% from the Leafre set, 2 15% Ignore DEF Nebulites, and a level 1 or 2 Luminous Link gets you to 100% or 105%. That's not including the 30% Ignore from Execution. And then there's the additional 30% Ignore from Armor Break, which I believe, like Threaten, Cry, Legendary Spear, would be multiplicative with your other DEF ignore sources.

Alright, I'll give you that, although I'll probably be using the Clocktower set. Regardless, I am at over 100% once I have Execution, however for training to 100, it still means faster training. Also, not every class is as blessed as DA when it comes to DEF ignore. My submain will also use these sets, more than likely.

Actually it is over rated, because we are not getting kms pdr system as stated by girasol, so 6% ignore PDR isn't really all that needed. The reason why i suggested mercedes card, is because it shaves off 1 second on inhale vitality, 1 second of shield chasing, and 5 seconds off their bind skill. So it has utility unlike the CS/Xenon cards. If he wants +str then replace xenon with kaiser, because dex does nothing for DA so rather a bonus of +40 str over +25 or w.e it is .Also DA main 1 on 1 and mob move isn't 100% critical like demon impact, and they only get 20% critical from their own skills, putting them at 25% then with hyper 35% then with phantom 50%. 3-4% critical is nice and especially when you have the hayato card, since its adding minimum crit you want as much critical as possible. tbh i think the best set to aim atm would be thief set with the % min critical it can give. Please actually make sure you know what the cards do to the class before suggesting it DOES nothing plox kk

Nobody uses vitality for anything but for healing, aka 1 sec off wont matter and with server lagg it wont even be noticeable. Bind sure, that one it can be useful for, but its not worth sacrificing a potential pirate set for 5.8 sec cut off. Shield chasing takes off 0.42 sec not 1 sec, because he wont be having more than S card = 4% cooldown not 5%.

He also stated earlier that he didnt want to waste a char slot slot for xenon however that changed, what makes you think he want to use another one for silly 3% crit? And thief set doesnt give min critical, it gives max critical damage.

You're funny when you suggest things and they dont do what you think they do, aslo please next time, look into what the thread OP wants, since he clearly dont have char slots to make a marksman just for 3% crit.

End of discussion.

Nobody uses vitality for anything but for healing, aka 1 sec off wont matter and with server lagg it wont even be noticeable. Bind sure, that one it can be useful for, but its not worth sacrificing a potential pirate set for 5.8 sec cut off. Shield chasing takes off 0.42 sec not 1 sec, because he wont be having more than S card = 4% cooldown not 5%.

He also stated earlier that he didnt want to waste a char slot slot for xenon however that changed, what makes you think he want to use another one for silly 3% crit? And thief set doesnt give min critical, it gives max critical damage.

You're funny when you suggest things and they dont do what you think they do, aslo please next time, look into what the thread OP wants, since he clearly dont have char slots to make a marksman just for 3% crit.

End of discussion.

He said he is getnig a char slot for a xenon, so im suggesting things that can be more useful than a xenon, as stated by iamfear, which youconveniently ignored, the pirate set is over rated because we are not getting the kms changes. That means everything you suggested for having pirate set is useless, so i am offering better alternatives. And for bind its 5 second cut off because its a maximum of 5 seconds. And 5 seconds off bind can mean the difference between the next time the enemy DRs and not, so i wouldn't toss it out as useless. The op admits that the set now is sorta useless, but is keeping them for his sub mains. I was simply giving him the best possible set bonuses he can obtain. So yes 3% crit is better than 6% ignore pdr when we are not getting kms changes, and ITS easy to get over 100% ignore PDR, because all the excess is completely pointless. 6% ignore pdr will be doing nothing for him when its over 100%, while the 3% crit will actually be helping his damage. But op wants to keep the pirate set, and thats okay, but im merely telling YOU that don't count other cards as useless because you dont understand why the set is useless overall. End of discussion

And at OP, i suggest keeping the Kanna card, simply because the 3% boss damage will stack with the DA card because they are different char cards.

He said he is getnig a char slot for a xenon, so im suggesting things that can be more useful than a xenon, as stated by iamfear, which youconveniently ignored, the pirate set is over rated because we are not getting the kms changes. That means everything you suggested for having pirate set is useless, so i am offering better alternatives. And for bind its 5 second cut off because its a maximum of 5 seconds. And 5 seconds off bind can mean the difference between the next time the enemy DRs and not, so i wouldn't toss it out as useless. The op admits that the set now is sorta useless, but is keeping them for his sub mains. I was simply giving him the best possible set bonuses he can obtain. So yes 3% crit is better than 6% ignore pdr when we are not getting kms changes, and ITS easy to get over 100% ignore PDR, because all the excess is completely pointless. 6% ignore pdr will be doing nothing for him when its over 100%, while the 3% crit will actually be helping his damage. But op wants to keep the pirate set, and thats okay, but im merely telling YOU that don't count other cards as useless because you dont understand why the set is useless overall. End of discussion

And at OP, i suggest keeping the Kanna card, simply because the 3% boss damage will stack with the DA card because they are different char cards.

Honestly, now that I know that Allied servers can give cards to mine, slots are no issue. That's why I'm okay with making a TB and Mech.

As for Pirate set being useless, I would keep it only for submains. I could make a thief set, if Thief cards were useful. What would you suggest I switch it for to use on DA?

Honestly, now that I know that Allied servers can give cards to mine, slots are no issue. That's why I'm okay with making a TB and Mech.

As for Pirate set being useless, I would keep it only for submains. I could make a thief set, if Thief cards were useful. What would you suggest I switch it for to use on DA?

The reason i suggest thief card set is because level s thief card set is 3% maximum critical damage. As Da dont get much in the way of Crit damage multiplier it would help. The only useful Thief card atm is Xenon tbh, and maybe db, with its % avoid is alot better than speed/jump.With that being said NW would be useful as well since it is also % avoid. As the only other way to get maximum critical damage is to have decent se gloves/nebs and the only way to get minimum critical damage is through an adventurer critical ring :/. I suggest you change the mercedes card for the Kanna card, because it does give 3% boss damage, that will stack with your DA cards, because they are different cards. Although the -5 seconds on bind can prove to be very useful, i dont see a way for you to keep it if you have the kanna card, unless you opt not to go for thief/pirate set which you stated you wanted. TBH the thief set wont be that helpful in the way because most thief cards suck besides xenon. So insted rather use other cards that can make up for not having a set like mercedes/mm card.

The reason i suggest thief card set is because level s thief card set is 3% maximum critical damage. As Da dont get much in the way of Crit damage multiplier it would help. The only useful Thief card atm is Xenon tbh, and maybe db, with its % avoid is alot better than speed/jump.With that being said NW would be useful as well since it is also % avoid. As the only other way to get maximum critical damage is to have decent se gloves/nebs and the only way to get minimum critical damage is through an adventurer critical ring :/. I suggest you change the mercedes card for the Kanna card, because it does give 3% boss damage, that will stack with your DA cards, because they are different cards. Although the -5 seconds on bind can prove to be very useful, i dont see a way for you to keep it if you have the kanna card, unless you opt not to go for thief/pirate set which you stated you wanted. TBH the thief set wont be that helpful in the way because most thief cards suck besides xenon. So insted rather use other cards that can make up for not having a set like mercedes/mm card.

Due to this, I decided that sets in general are pretty useless and I should just do the Warrior set and 2 sets of randoms.

Aran/DrK/Hayato

Mechanic/Mercedes/DA

DS/Kanna/(?)

That last slot could be taken up by a lot of things. Thunder Breaker and Kaiser are two options, as well as a POSSIBLE Marksman (note that I despise archers), or even Battle Mage. So many options for that last slot.