Patch Feedback Thread

I believe I said that Battoujutsu Soul does in fact give critical. Simply because it's not in the readout, doesn't mean it's not there. This applies to Willow Dodge as well. The dodge is there; the presence of the effect alone can attest for that. Remember, when 25% activates, 60% must then also activate. We all know how percentages work by now. In fact, I tested Willow Dodge with Holy Magic Shell. I get up to 5 stacks almost every time. So I know it's there.

EDIT: I'm noticing I'm getting the activation for Willow Dodge when I get a MISS/GUARD, not when the effect appears. Weird... Maybe that's what's wrong.

Dankuusen reminds me of Assaulter...
And then Shouryuusen+Dankuusen reminds me of when I used Assaulter to "teleport" onto platforms.

The feels.

Edit: Holy...

Shouryuusen+Dankuusen+Hien (Vapor Blade)+Dankuusen is something my Shadower envies...

I only prefer Hayato because I can use more of a variety of skills at any time, whereas I have to wait on gaining Mana on Kanna sometimes. Both classes are fluid though, and Kishin Shoukan is one of my favorite skills for obvious reasons.

It's kinda sad that when playing Kanna and Hayato you can tell that they are from a lesser "tier" to jobs like Luminous, Kaiser, Angelic Buster and Xenon.

For example, Adventurers are one tier, then the "Heroes" Aran and Evan were released after that. Then the "Legends" classes, Cannon Shooter, Demon Slayer, Mercedes and I'm going to include Phantom and Mikhail here too. And then came the "Tempest" classes, which are an entire tier above the Legends classes.

You can tell by looking at their skills that Kanna and Hayato were developed around the time of the legends classes (mostly Phantom, which a lot of Kanna and Hayato's skills and playstyle resemble)

So Kanna and Hayato aren't "Balanced". They were just developed during an earlier period.

it's a horrific example of Power Creep which is quite easy to notice.

you just have to remember and look back and directly compare Hayato and Kanna as the JMS equivalent of Jett, which basically is right before Phantom which is basically what time period tier you place them at. Of course, i do agree that the patch sorta interoduced damage tiers, but there is always those stragglers who break the trend e.g marksman.

Yeah, I kinda forgot that they were released shortly after Jett.

I suppose what made me notice the power creep recently is the fact that Hayato and Kanna are an unusual case. They were classes developed in a previous tier and released after a higher tier, which makes the gap in power seem even more obvious. Hence why people consider Hayato and Kanna to be "balanced" when compared to the current tier.

While there are exceptions to the rule like Marksman, it's not just about damage. Marksman have rather poor mobility, way less status resist, they don't attack as fast or with as many lines. And when compared to Kaiser they aren't as effective bossers either due to Kaiser's ability to hit through damage reflect, having 3 sources of weapon potential ect.

I suppose it's also quite easy to notice in class tiers too.
There are the 3 resistance characters, and then there is Demon Slayer, and then Demon Avenger and Xenon. Which shows a quite obvious rise in power as time went on.

And the Heroes as well. Aran and Evan are still pretty strong, but they lack the mobility of the later classes, and of course Aran and Evan don't have link skills, or useful beginner skills (such as Mercedes and Phantom having awesome movement skills in the beginner book, as well as ways of healing and passive buffs).

While classes shouldn't all be the same, they should at least all be brought up to the same standard. just in different ways.

While classes shouldn't all be the same, they should at least all be brought up to the same standard. just in different ways.

This is why I don't think Kanna's teleport is OP in compared to other magicians, because her casting time feels slower and takes half a second to actually teleport, which makes it harder to control with avoiding enemy attacks.

I could never understand what they were thinking when they made Luminous's teleport vastly superior in everything. It has a longer distance and it has a bit of dark sight after use so you don't get hit by the monster. At the very least, they should have updated the other magicians with the same teleport distance when they released Luminous. That way, the problems won't build up like a dumpster.

At the very least, they should have updated the other magicians with the same teleport distance when they released Luminous. That way, the problems won't build up like a dumpster.

Think about it this way: Battle Mage's can have an almost as good teleport with invincibility (though still not as far as Luminous), but they have to spend Hyper Skill points to get the same effect as as a first job Luminous Skill.

This would be ok if Luminous lacked in other areas to compensate, but it doesn't. It has everything that other mages have, plus even more.

I agree with you about Kanna's teleport too. Every class should have pros and cons to their movement skills to keep them all different.

What I noticed about Luminous/Kaiser/Angelic Buster is that all three have vicious amounts of vertical mobility, if anything, that was that patch's calling card.

Gameplay with Hayato has been great.

-I'm the type that tends to spam the up key on portals, and that's caused quite a bit of frustration when entering maps.
-I tend to give my characters similar layouts based on what the skills do. It just so happens that all the classes with button-mashing skills share the same key with classes that have Flying Assaulter and its variants. Hayato has both, so I've been trying to get used to it.
-Shinsoku feels slow, making it a tad harder to jump attack than I'd like.
-I always jump before Falcon Dive out of habit, and that's caused me to miss smaller mobs quite a number of times.
-Rai Sanrenzan is just hax in every way.

I can solo Hard Mode Attack/Occupy at Azwan for some reason, so I'll be there for the next month or two trying to get buff duration. It's Final Cut all over again.

EDIT: Though crit rate would be fine too.

Think about it this way: Battle Mage's can have an almost as good teleport with invincibility (though still not as far as Luminous), but they have to spend Hyper Skill points to get the same effect as as a first job Luminous Skill.

This would be ok if Luminous lacked in other areas to compensate, but it doesn't. It has everything that other mages have, plus even more.

I agree with you about Kanna's teleport too. Every class should have pros and cons to their movement skills to keep them all different.

I actually don't like the lumi teleport in some aspects. I find it kind of awkward in that it goes so far vertically you miss platforms and have to drop down. Also it goes so long horizontally that at bosses it can sometimes be awkward if the map is small. I personally wouldn't trade my normal mage teleport for lumis. The dark sight is nice though and when just traveling the range is crazy helpful.

Kanna's teleport pretty much makes Azwan impossible without pure luck.

Kanna's teleport pretty much makes Azwan impossible without pure luck.

You'll be taking that back when you're about to get 1 hit-KO'd by the tower and Kanna's teleport saves your ass.

Saved mine plenty of times. Thank you Kanna <3

I kanna understand why do people dont like kanna compared with hayato

I mean i found her boring because when I play with her it wasn't all spaming as I thought
even if the 100 mana thing is a bit annyoning sometimes... I like it

I kanna understand why do people dont like kanna compared with hayato

I mean i found her boring because when I play with her it wasn't all spaming as I thought
even if the 100 mana thing is a bit annyoning sometimes... I like it

Most complaints i've seen about Kanna have been from people who are only levelling Kanna for the link skill, they say that "all you do is stand in the middle of the map and spam tengu" which is frigging ridiculous.
Of course if you stand in one spot and spam tengu you are going to have problems with mana and find the class boring. I hardly ever used Tengu while grinding, I cycled the map because Kanna is a very mobile class, and I didn't get bored doing that because I switched up the skills I used (because Kanna has a lot of them)

I find it absolutely ridiculous that they play a class with so many skills, then they stand in one spot and spam just one of them, and then complain about the class, say that it sucks and that it is boring.
Hayato however doesn't have a skill like that, you have to keep moving, so they actually experiment with his skills and find it less boring.

They don't know how to play Kanna at all and have no right to complain and say it sucks.

Yeah, I kinda forgot that they were released shortly after Jett.

I suppose what made me notice the power creep recently is the fact that Hayato and Kanna are an unusual case. They were classes developed in a previous tier and released after a higher tier, which makes the gap in power seem even more obvious. Hence why people consider Hayato and Kanna to be "balanced" when compared to the current tier.

While there are exceptions to the rule like Marksman, it's not just about damage. Marksman have rather poor mobility, way less status resist, they don't attack as fast or with as many lines. And when compared to Kaiser they aren't as effective bossers either due to Kaiser's ability to hit through damage reflect, having 3 sources of weapon potential ect.

I suppose it's also quite easy to notice in class tiers too.
There are the 3 resistance characters, and then there is Demon Slayer, and then Demon Avenger and Xenon. Which shows a quite obvious rise in power as time went on.

And the Heroes as well. Aran and Evan are still pretty strong, but they lack the mobility of the later classes, and of course Aran and Evan don't have link skills, or useful beginner skills (such as Mercedes and Phantom having awesome movement skills in the beginner book, as well as ways of healing and passive buffs).

While classes shouldn't all be the same, they should at least all be brought up to the same standard. just in different ways.

its probably best to leave kaiser out of any comparative balance discussion, because he is better than every single class by miles at everything lol. no one is as effective at bossing as kaiser, period. probably should've compared to mercedes or something

i also feel DS and DA do not really indicate a rise in power. DS is very middle of the pack(an indication of good balance, not at the top, not at the bottom, middle where everyone should be). DA is only slightly above the middle, which could be taken as a bit broken because he does have some of the highest defenses in the game on top of a massive health pool @_@. regardless though, I feel the demons aren't in a massive broken state like kaiser, I feel they're fine. Bams are completely fine, mechs would be completely fine if their mobility wasnt the worst in the game, and wild hunters are a bit under the middle but fine too. i dont think resistance classes are suited for explaining your class Tier theory

xenon, on the other hand....completely trumps both DS and DA. you could definitely make a case for xenon

also aran is not strong in any way after you get past his high base damage . one of the lowest %'s per minute and hits per minute, makes me sad ;_;

its probably best to leave kaiser out of any comparative balance discussion, because he is better than every single class by miles at everything lol. no one is as effective at bossing as kaiser, period. probably should've compared to mercedes or something

i also feel DS and DA do not really indicate a rise in power. DS is very middle of the pack(an indication of good balance, not at the top, not at the bottom, middle where everyone should be). DA is only slightly above the middle, which could be taken as a bit broken because he does have some of the highest defenses in the game on top of a massive health pool @_@. regardless though, I feel the demons aren't in a massive broken state like kaiser, I feel they're fine. Bams are completely fine, mechs would be completely fine if their mobility wasnt the worst in the game, and wild hunters are a bit under the middle but fine too. i dont think resistance classes are suited for explaining your class Tier theory

xenon, on the other hand....completely trumps both DS and DA. you could definitely make a case for xenon

also aran is not strong in any way after you get past his high base damage . one of the lowest %'s per minute and hits per minute, makes me sad ;_;

I was actually quite confused about where to place the original resistance characters (Battle Mage, Wild Hunter and Mechanic)

I think that if I was to place them in a tier though it would probably be the Adventurer tier. But then when you consider that they were released after Aran (And I distinctly remember Archers QQing about how OP Wild Hunter was) it becomes quite difficult to place them.

I think in terms of tiers to goes:
Adventurers/Resistance > Aran and Evan > Legends Classes (Including Phantom, Mihile and MAYBE Demon Avenger) > Tempest Classes and Awakened Cygnus

I was actually quite confused about where to place the original resistance characters (Battle Mage, Wild Hunter and Mechanic)

I think that if I was to place them in a tier though it would probably be the Adventurer tier. But then when you consider that they were released after Aran (And I distinctly remember Archers QQing about how OP Wild Hunter was) it becomes quite difficult to place them.

I think in terms of tiers to goes:
Adventurers/Resistance > Aran and Evan > Legends Classes (Including Phantom, Mihile and MAYBE Demon Avenger) > Tempest Classes and Awakened Cygnus

Aran places below several adveturers, as does Evan. Also DB should be put in the legend classes tier since it is unclear where he is currently included.

I was actually quite confused about where to place the original resistance characters (Battle Mage, Wild Hunter and Mechanic)

I think that if I was to place them in a tier though it would probably be the Adventurer tier. But then when you consider that they were released after Aran (And I distinctly remember Archers QQing about how OP Wild Hunter was) it becomes quite difficult to place them.

I think in terms of tiers to goes:
Adventurers/Resistance > Aran and Evan > Legends Classes (Including Phantom, Mihile and MAYBE Demon Avenger) > Tempest Classes and Awakened Cygnus

you can't really put the entire factions into tiers, because each faction has a class or 2 that is powerful or broken, this is alot more accurate in regards to straight % per second:

(the garbage men)Aran, Dark Knight, Phantom, Luminous, Bowmaster, Nightlord, Buccaneer, Corsair > (being average isnt so bad)Paladin, Dual Blade, Wild Hunter, IL and FP, Mihile, Mechanic, Thunder Breaker, Shadower, Demon Slayer > (arian master race)Demon Avenger, Evan, Hero, BaM, Xbow, Cannoneer, Wind Archer, Angelic Burster, Xenon > (why havnt i been nerfed yet)Kaiser

im missing some classes but w/e. the flow chart would also be changed depending on if you judged based on hits/sec instead of %/sec, since hits/sec will be better to look at if all classes are assumed to do capped damage.

as you can see though, some factions have classes that are really good, and some that not so much

I've really enjoyed training my Hayato to 4th job. While it's been fun, I've hit a wall in my desire to train post 4th job advancement. I tend to lose interest training in the 100-130 level range and it's no different for a class as interesting as Hayato.

Also, my dual blade is really jealous of surging blade. Whenever I use that skill on my Hayato, I can't help but think of how much I would rather have that skill than bloody storm.