MapleStory Banning YouTube Channel

So, supposedly GMs have to have recorded evidence of virtually everything that earns a permaban.

By vote, how many of you think that should be public info so there can never be any claim about how legitimate your ban was or was not?

Do any of you feel that it would be a privacy violation to have something like that make visible about yourselves? Or do you think it should be transparent because if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to hide and no reason to fear them posting you playing?

(spambots and similar probably could be exempt from this, but anything with a real play history definitely should not)

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Shifted venue to make it accessible to a wider audience, feel free to share and repost link and continue discussing here;

https://www.change.org/petitions/nexon-a...eal-system

I vote for it to be public. If you have been proven to be hacking, privacy be damned.

Public.
I just can't trust Nexon at all on this matter.

It should be public. They did this with one person before on the forums, and they really should do it for everyone. If the person is hacking, they're hacking; but they should have proof to back up their claim. Not all bans are justified ones.

I'm perfectly okay with them being made entirely public. I'm fairly certain it would cut down on the ticket spam by the truckload, and would actually let IMPORTANT matters be dealt with in a much more timely and HUMANLY fashion. (Yes, humanly, not humanely. As in you actually get a human responding to you instead of a copy and paste reponse.)

If you are not doing anything wrong this should not be an issue or concern for you.

Devil's Advocate

If you are not doing anything wrong this should not be an issue or concern for you.

...says every single person who wants to invade my privacy.

The problem with this kind of publicity is that it twists justice. In the current system, you are presumed innocent and they have to prove you guilty just like any sane court system should be. But under this new system, if they post a video of you hacking you are guilty and you have to prove yourself innocent. Do you have any idea how hard it is to prove a negative?

Plus, imagine the following scenario:

1. Your account gets hacked (I don't care how, it just does)
2. Someone else cleans your account and then gets it permabanned just to be a douchebag
3. Nexon posts the logs

How are you going to prove your innocence? How are you going to get your crap back? You already know Nexon's customer service is not very good. Are you willing to risk completely public ban logs when you can get screwed for something you didn't do?

Devil's Advocate



...says every single person who wants to invade my privacy.

The problem with this kind of publicity is that it twists justice. In the current system, you are presumed innocent and they have to prove you guilty just like any sane court system should be. But under this new system, if they post a video of you hacking you are guilty and you have to prove yourself innocent. Do you have any idea how hard it is to prove a negative?

Plus, imagine the following scenario:

1. Your account gets hacked (I don't care how, it just does)
2. Someone else cleans your account and then gets it permabanned just to be a douchebag
3. Nexon posts the logs

How are you going to prove your innocence? How are you going to get your crap back? You already know Nexon's customer service is not very good. Are you willing to risk completely public ban logs when you can get screwed for something you didn't do?

That's what connectivity logs and past history are for. I'm under the assumption that this video proof will only be used under the basis that everything else matches up and stacks up against you. Also, the current system already completely pins you as guilty until proven innocent anyway.

That's what connectivity logs and past history are for. I'm under the assumption that this video proof will only be used under the basis that everything else matches up and stacks up against you. Also, the current system already completely pins you as guilty until proven innocent anyway.

The poll only makes note of "video logs being accessible". Connectivity logs and past history are not going to be included with it. Though Eos's description...

"By vote, how many of you think that should be public info so there can never be any claim about how legitimate your ban was or was not?"

... "public info" is about the most vague term possible. So I don't know exactly what he's referring to here.

Also, in regards to reducing the ticket count, I think they get far more, "I was hacked restore my items plz" rather than "I was falsely banned". Also, consider this, if they can reduce their ticket count, Nexon will simply fire more customer service members due to the decreased count. To say that having this will increase customer service would only make sense in a world where Nexon had awesome customer service.

Also, in regards to reducing the ticket count, I think they get far more, "I was hacked restore my items plz" rather than "I was falsely banned". Also, consider this, if they can reduce their ticket count, Nexon will simply fire more customer service members due to the decreased count. To say that having this will increase customer service would only make sense in a world where Nexon had awesome customer service.

This made me laugh, but then cry right after because you're probably right. I still can't fathom what exactly is going on in that building, especially after getting a new main man and having things go so swell for a few months. Everything just fell apart again november/december. They make so much money.... but still can't be assed to actually staff accordingly.

I'm still firm on my stance, though. Mostly because of the MASSIVE amount of wrongful bans we've had the past month.

Also, the current system already completely pins you as guilty until proven innocent anyway.

It's not the same thing.

OLD SYSTEM
Nexon: RAWR!
YOU: I'm innocent. I swear I'm innocent guys!
FRIENDS: Nexon sucks for banning people wrongfully.
YOU: APPEAL HAMMER!
Nexon: RAWR!
YOU: Nexon doesn't care about its players.
FRIENDS: Yeah Nexon sucks!

New system
Nexon: RAWR!
YOU: I'm innocent, I swear!
FRIENDS: But there are those logs of you hacking. Right there. Look.
YOU: That's not me? I couldn't have been there.
FRIENDS: Hacker! We should have known all along.
Nexon: Oops! UNRAWR
FRIENDS: He's still a lying hacker. Hacker! We don't want you in our guild.

This is what I mean by innocent until proven guilty. You're saying the new system is sufficiently better?

Devil's Advocate



...says every single person who wants to invade my privacy.

The problem with this kind of publicity is that it twists justice. In the current system, you are presumed innocent and they have to prove you guilty just like any sane court system should be. But under this new system, if they post a video of you hacking you are guilty and you have to prove yourself innocent. Do you have any idea how hard it is to prove a negative?

Plus, imagine the following scenario:

1. Your account gets hacked (I don't care how, it just does)
2. Someone else cleans your account and then gets it permabanned just to be a douchebag
3. Nexon posts the logs

How are you going to prove your innocence? How are you going to get your crap back? You already know Nexon's customer service is not very good. Are you willing to risk completely public ban logs when you can get screwed for something you didn't do?

If there is video evidence of someone hacking on your account at a specific time and date, wouldnt that help corroborate with connectivity logs to help prove your innocence?

If there is video evidence of someone hacking on your account at a specific time and date, wouldnt that help corroborate with connectivity logs to help prove your innocence?

Why the hell is everyone talking connectivity logs? Eos only mentioned video evidence. That is what I'm arguing against.

i prefer public. nexon already bans you without giving any sort of proof, even with what fiel says, i find that less people would get banned because nexon can't provide the proof for the "you were hacking" ban.

Right now under current circumstances you're guilty until proven innocent. They ban you, then you have to request appeal. That's definitely not "innocent until proven guilty" unless you count it as backwards logic in example of a person being arrested and then told of their reason for arrest after being sentenced...

I personally think they should only upload the video if the person in question makes a fuss over it. In which case if the notion "I may of been hacked" is given, then access logs would then be able to be accessed on nexons end and would further claim evidence to a ban.

Edit: @Fiel people mean in any situation where the video is to be doubted then log in records can be used to back the video evidence. If I am understanding correctly.

Right now under current circumstances you're guilty until proven innocent. They ban you, then you have to request appeal. That's definitely not "innocent until proven guilty" unless you count it as backwards logic in example of a person being arrested and then told of their reason for arrest after being sentenced...

You are innocent until proven guilty with your friends. Your friends will take your side against the evil Nexon empire. Not so after the new system.

...says every single person who wants to invade my privacy.

Do you have even the smallest delusion of privacy in an online game today? If so, please tell me how? Every one knows damn well an invisible GM could be lurking on any map, listening on any channel, that anything they do or say can end up resulting in a ban.

As for the rest of your claim;

In the current system, you are presumed innocent and they have to prove you guilty just like any sane court system should be.

Absolute drivel. You're presumed guilty because Nexon said so. There is no presumption of innocence at all. If they say it, It Is. There is no trial, there is no representation, there is no peer review, there is absolutely nothing comparable to a court system here.

In order for Presumption of Innocence to exist there would have to at least be a system like I described where proof is brought forth against the accused, otherwise it's presumption of guilt and expecting the player to whip out miracle evidence proving their innocence like Zelkova managed.

I disregard the account theft premise entirely. It's possible, but if someone steals your car and commits a hit and run fatality with it you're never going to see that car again because it's evidence. You can't prove you didn't share the account, you can't prove it wasn't you from somewhere else, all that can be proven is that someone was on the account and committed a crime, and they'd at least have evidence of that so you couldn't say it didn't happen. If they chose to be lenient on it that's demonstrated mercy, but if they didn't it's equally legitimate if painful, but no more so than if the hacker had outright deleted your stuff anyway. Comes out the same.

You are innocent until proven guilty with your friends. Your friends will take your side against the evil Nexon empire. Not so after the new system.

That's agreeable, Realistically if ban videos were to be uploaded they should only be done so if a fuss is made over it, or at the very best situation, through private means and then for access logs to be used as a backing of evidence.

Why the hell is everyone talking connectivity logs? Eos only mentioned video evidence. That is what I'm arguing against.

That'd be your fault for bringing up a scenario unrelated to what this was intended to cover that requires even more. Your argument against required you to reach to where it was inadequate and now they're trying to solve that too at the cost of derailing the original point.

I'd rather see the evidence of why I have been banned, not be told that I'm guilty based on their assessment.

I vote make it public because we can't let Nexon get away and ban someone for NO reason at all like Tyler's situation. We prob want to know why or what he did to get him banned.

And also the person who got banned probably want to know why/how they got banned ( description and video). If privacy is a problem, they can still show proof through the ticket and or let the player choose if they want it to be made public or private ( them self and Nexon can only see it)