FM Courtesy

-Sorry. SP logged me out while I was replying and I guess it doubleposted.-

Well, you guys have quite the argument going on here...

Maplers lack human decency. Most do nothing unless it will benefit them. They suck. Period. Every time I go to set up my store I see people taking up two spots, I see platforms where you could fit at least three more on it, and that's just in the Henesys rooms. It's not like it is hard to just take a few steps to the left or a jump to the right. Yet people will not do this, because common decency is pretty much an oxymoron when it comes to this game. People won't do a single damn thing, no matter how small, unless they can get benefit out of it, and it's sad. I'll have to side with Harrison on this one.

Well you said courtesy but you also said they should move over for anyone and loose the spot value. But what if they want to use the spot later, or save it for their friend? It's not right to accuse people of not having courtesy when you don't know their plans for the spot. Maybe they are saving for their friend. Maybe there was three poeple racing for a spot and they pushed open as soon as they saw thought they could take the spot. If they happen to be off center they arn't going to close again because the other two people are waiting for that person to close and get a title or reposition so they can take the spot. (And if they are not in a spot that popular then who cares if they take 2 spots anyway.)

I cannot say whether or not she was saving for a friend, but I could say she wasn't racing anyone to get it. I suppose you're right in that if they were going to save for a friend, but based on her reply to me, I was 75% certain that she was not. However, now it is impossible to tell.

Also a great way to get ac'ed is to scoot all the way over so that there is almost a spot between you and the other store. An ac'er will set up right there so that whoever he is overlapping with could loose their spot when they close. So I don't want to leave the 4.5 cm open when it requires 4.7 cm to make a spot. That only attractes acer's to come stand right next to me and make refreshing difficult.

Personally, I have never seen an ACer go AC a "middle" spot. Rather, they go seek out those with only 1 or 2 items in their store and stand exactly on top of that person.

Answering a question does give benefits both in game and in the forums. It gives entertainment, fame, and you have the opertunity to cause people to develop a high opinion of you. In otherwords it enhances your image.

Or worsen it. It may give you fame, but from who? People who you don't know personally. Thus, intrinsic motivation is at play and therefore it's not the benefits that keeps you visiting forums and replying.

However when I do end up with a double spot that I have no use for and I have the opertunity to move it arround, I sell the extra spot. But I frequently hold the extra spot for a day or more to set up when I'm gone or give to a friend who won't be on until later. So I would say all the messages that I'm spot hogging or rude or w/e are not being left by courteous people. They have no idea what my plans for my spot are and have no right to accuse me of being uncourtes in my plans. Making assumptions regarding that and then going around accusing people is rather rude and inmature in my opinion.

Well, saving a spot for a friend is acceptable. Selling two spots is not? How are you going to sell the other spot? In order for that to happen, there must be some very high trust between you and the buyer. What if the buyer buys the spot and you deny it? What if the buyer buys your spare spot and then he teleports onto your spot and take both?

Thus generally when that happens, people WILL leave rude messages because there's not a very plausible way for these deals to happen.

Also I get more messages telling me to move over or that I'm spot hogging or w/e if I'm on the edge of my spot rather than in the middle. So while I used to scoot to the edge when the opertunity arises I no longer do because when the spot is in the middle it no longer looks like an opertunity and they do not badger me about it. And reacently I have moved my spot from the edge to the middle because after FM 1 set up after a SC it became clear that I was going to be the subject of whiners and ac'ers if I didn't move to the middle. So I moved from the edge of my spot to the middle at the first opertunity (which was about 6 hours later) and I recieved plently of hate messages in the meantime.

Then the person bothering you doesn't know what he/she is talking about them and you can just ban them from your shop or blacklist them for a day or so.

I'm quite sure MTS is still quite buggy, and I know for sure a lot of items can't be placed in MTS. Onyx apples, facestompers, chaos scrolls and white scrolls for example. Besides, the search function for scrolls is badass flawed imo. I want a 30%, but all I see when I hit the "Ascending price order" (After waiting for like 15-20 seconds) is a ton of 70% scrolls.

That's true, some items are tradeblocked. However, those items are the common ones where if one world has x number more, there would be a misbalance between the worlds.

The search option isn't flawed. You just have to look through them, and really if you're not searching for something like a def. scroll, you only have to look through the first few pages because the pages get progressively expensive. (The good deals are picked off and the bad ones die to the back, similar to how threads work in a forum.)

The times I went around in Windia, searching for items, it took me 1 hr 10 mins constantly teleporting and going inside shops barely able to watch what's inside before moving on to next shop. I'd assume the crowdedness in all servers has increased, thus it'd take longer time if you want to search out for something.

Generally, if you'd want to visit ALL the shops, it'd take a long time. This is why there are priority of spots, where you'd want to visit something in CC1 more than CC15. As I said, if you know where to look, it shouldn't take you all that long.

Double experience is picky stuff, though in general, it could be described in this way: Most people state that they play for fun. For every person, fun is defined as achieving something, to master something or getting acknowledged because you have done something amazing. For people playing maple to level up, seeing all these people that pass you with double experience cards, you're losing that feeling of achieving something. To regain it, buy cards and play. This is for the people having their goal as levelling. I may be somewhat rusty on this though. I haven't studied game design for like a year.

Then you are playing for the wrong reason if all you're going to do is compare yourself to others. Although this is true of everyone to a certain extent, if all you care about is others' opinions, you will have a very difficult time having fun.

10 dollars a month is actually very cheap for being a MMO. 120 dollars is for me 1.3 new PS3/X-box/Wii/PC-games. Also, it takes me half an hr to earn up 10 dollars, and I'm quite sure most people would earn it in less than 2 hrs. I don't think it would lessen the amount of players, really. WoW is a good example on this not being such a bad idea.

Then it'd exclude everyone who has parents who do not agree to children playing games, and as a result, you'd have an older audience. Really this idea isn't the case with maple, because it's content is AIMED solely at a common teenager, as they would be the most likely to become addicted to the NX system.

Besides, how did Nexon manage to keep their servers up if they did not have double experience to sell?

I'm not saying that they shouldn't sell it, rather, you don't have to use it even if it's there. You still have the "ultimate choice", and many people fail to acknowledge it stating how "easy" it is to seccumb to buying NX.

I don't get why people would get a chair for 2 bill mesos anyway, lol.

The most expensive chair right now is the Skull throne, and as I recall saying in one of the older posts, it displays your wealth. Why do people buy Mercedes when they can buy a Toyota with all of the same functions for a cheaper price?

And as you said, you respond to people messaging you because you care about others' opinions.

Nexon may not be a charity, but a company's first priority should not be money. In fact, money shouldn't be a priority at all. First priority should be being good and making customers happy. Paul Graham explains this pretty well. He talks about craigslist.org and says "It's not a charity, but they run it like one". And they have a higher income per employee than Google does. You should listen to the whole thing, it's brilliant.

I have never heard what Graham has to say about Craig's List, but customer satisfaction directly corresponds to the amount of money a company will make. Thus it'd make sense for a company to comply with a customer's interests, especially when it faces competition.

That being said, Craig's List faces competition from a variety of other websites, while Nexon faces competition from almost no other game, just based on its form of advertising and 2d gameplay alone. That's why they have less to offer in terms of customer service.

If you want to save the spot for a friend of yours?

Then state your intentions... I have no problem with people saving for friends, but from what the person said to me, it was not the case. As mentioned above though, it is impossible to prove or disprove now as the FM has shifted since yesterday.

It's comparable to greed, I'd assume. Or trying to make profit. Having less shops in your free market means that there will be a higher chance of your store selling out items that other people potentially have, but has to move to other spots. FM 1, 2, 3, 4 and so forth shows us this already. After all, the point to have a shop open is to earn money, isn't it?

I suppose you would have a higher chance of selling out, but then again, if a person's really going to go that far to search, he/she would search more than just your FM room.

In fact, it does. Do some research under rhetoric and definitions of fun, and you'll see that being kind will at times be benefiting you. When I was number one in Bellocan, I replied to people whispering me. Yes, I did. You know what some people told me? That I "had to be the most kind pro out there, talking to a noob like me". I gained what we call in rhetoric ethos, and it benefited me because it gave me a good rumour of being kind and nice. And durr, why did I do this? Well, it was not only because I felt that not replying was bad and would make people somewhat sad. Well, maybe it was, but I (sadly) think my subconsciousness wanted me to achieve being a kind and nice "pro", not a "oh, this is a big fat g.i.r.l. not caring about others nerding in front of a computer".

We all care about others' opinions to a certain extent. The extent though, is what is important. To you, maybe you care that you're known as a nice pro, but is image the sole purpose of talking to people you don't know? Or rather should you be driven to respond because you really are nice, and not because you want to appear nice?

Also, I wanted to talk about morals about what's right and wrong, why people do not do wrong things because it's not socially accepted, but some things in it is actually common sense. Though, some things may not be that easy to understand. Why do you pay your taxes? It's not because of economics at all, but because of what's morally wrong and right based on what the majority of the society you live in means. But I'll save that for another day, we'll prolly go off-t.

There isn't a set of laws saying what's "right" and what's "wrong". Rather, there are many interpretations. Otherwise lawyers would not have jobs.

We pay our taxes because the government is the one fixing the roads in front of our homes and the one constructing building plans, running the city, ect. Otherwise, these community projects would not be accomplished and we'd probably be driving on dirt roads. If you're sitting back and enjoying the benefits while other people are paying your taxes, would you not have a guilty conscience?

And yes, morals. The point of this discussion. One particular friend was against me making this type of thread... IDK why pacifism is the new trend these days, but in my opinion, without these kinds of threads, then nobody would think about these common problems.

Maybe the FM should have fixed slots so that there's no "taking up 2 slots", you just click a slot to get it.


Not everybody spends hundreds of hours in the FM and knows exactly how much space their shop is taking up, they see an open space and go for it.

Maybe the FM should have fixed slots so that there's no "taking up 2 slots", you just click a slot to get it.

That'd make it ridiculously easy for a ACer to click multiple spots. :f6:

Not everybody spends hundreds of hours in the FM and knows exactly how much space their shop is taking up, they see an open space and go for it.

Relatively, they should know judging by the space between each shop.

Well, saving a spot for a friend is acceptable. Selling two spots is not? How are you going to sell the other spot? In order for that to happen, there must be some very high trust between you and the buyer. What if the buyer buys the spot and you deny it? What if the buyer buys your spare spot and then he teleports onto your spot and take both?

I believe I specified that I would wait until trafic was clear and move in two stores. In case you need it spelled out:
Store set up on Computer 1
So load up store mules on Computer 2 & 3
Stand under spot and get titles
Push close on Computer 1 & press enter on Computer 2 & 3
Then either set up 2 stores or sell one and set up the other

I do this all the time in order to get max benifit from my spots and still have a computer to play on. And I think it's perfectly acceptable to sell the spot if I'm not using it and my friends don't want it or arn't on when I want to dispose of it.

I believe I specified that I would wait until trafic was clear and move in two stores. In case you need it spelled out:
Store set up on Computer 1
So load up store mules on Computer 2 & 3
Stand under spot and get titles
Push close on Computer 1 & press enter on Computer 2 & 3
Then either set up 2 stores or sell one and set up the other

I see. I was fixated to the limits of having one computer.

I do this all the time in order to get max benifit from my spots and still have a computer to play on. And I think it's perfectly acceptable to sell the spot if I'm not using it and my friends don't want it or arn't on when I want to dispose of it.

So you only move over when there is a spare spot that you can claim, but don't when there's a spot and a wide gap...

That's true, some items are tradeblocked. However, those items are the common ones where if one world has x number more, there would be a misbalance between the worlds.

The search option isn't flawed. You just have to look through them, and really if you're not searching for something like a def. scroll, you only have to look through the first few pages because the pages get progressively expensive. (The good deals are picked off and the bad ones die to the back, similar to how threads work in a forum.)

Yet, I feel it somewhat annoying to run through 19 pages of 70% scrolls before I see a 30% scroll, you get me? heh. At least this is what happened for me.

Generally, if you'd want to visit ALL the shops, it'd take a long time. This is why there are priority of spots, where you'd want to visit something in CC1 more than CC15. As I said, if you know where to look, it shouldn't take you all that long.

I want to find the best deal on the item, so I go through all fm-shops. No pineappleing way I'll go pay 30 mill for a 30% scroll in fm 1.

Then you are playing for the wrong reason if all you're going to do is compare yourself to others. Although this is true of everyone to a certain extent, if all you care about is others' opinions, you will have a very difficult time having fun.

I didn't state that people has to compare themselves with someone else, though this is the fact for levelers. Playing a game is about achieving something, getting a reward for being able to do something. Whether it be playing with your friends in a party quest or being known as the best player on the server, it's still about achieving something. The only reason you wouldn't, is because you're going on to talk with someone, and then I'd just say you should go on msn instead, since it lags less. lol

Then it'd exclude everyone who has parents who do not agree to children playing games, and as a result, you'd have an older audience. Really this idea isn't the case with maple, because it's content is AIMED solely at a common teenager, as they would be the most likely to become addicted to the NX system.

I always thought that parents who do not agree to children playing games wouldn't accept MapleStory either. (You meant paying for it, right?)
Say it costs 10 dollars per month, and you're able to buy 10-dollar cards at Target. Then most people would most likely be able to go buy these 10-dollars cards, even kids. Though it would be less interesting to play from the beginning, maybe try out some sort of 30/60/90-day free test coupons. Nexon would get a better customer support, and will most likely be able to fix bugs and glitches more efficiently. And the hacker problem will be fixed.

Though yeah, a lot of people would have to quit maple, and a lot of people would complain in the beginning. I don't know whether Nexon would earn on this or not.

I have never heard what Graham has to say about Craig's List, but customer satisfaction directly corresponds to the amount of money a company will make. Thus it'd make sense for a company to comply with a customer's interests, especially when it faces competition.

That being said, Craig's List faces competition from a variety of other websites, while Nexon faces competition from almost no other game, just based on its form of advertising and 2d gameplay alone. That's why they have less to offer in terms of customer service.

Still, a good company would focus on happy customers, customers that return. They would as well focus on a good image. Whether you have competitors or not is irrelevant really, as you should gain more customers in this way anyway.

Then state your intentions... I have no problem with people saving for friends, but from what the person said to me, it was not the case. As mentioned above though, it is impossible to prove or disprove now as the FM has shifted since yesterday.

Ah, okay. Well, it's just mean to state "ahahah, no spot4u", but I'd say, if I see a spot free and I take it, "sorry, I didn't see you being here earlier". Now, if there's a spot free if I move, I'd still be scared to do it due to scammers and tricksters.

I suppose you would have a higher chance of selling out, but then again, if a person's really going to go that far to search, he/she would search more than just your FM room.

Contradicts with this:

 Spoiler

Generally, if you'd want to visit ALL the shops, it'd take a long time. This is why there are priority of spots, where you'd want to visit something in CC1 more than CC15. As I said, if you know where to look, it shouldn't take you all that long.[/quest]

[quote=Harrisonized]We all care about others' opinions to a certain extent. The extent though, is what is important. To you, maybe you care that you're known as a nice pro, but is image the sole purpose of talking to people you don't know? Or rather should you be driven to respond because you really are nice, and not because you want to appear nice?Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I hope it is the first.

There isn't a set of laws saying what's "right" and what's "wrong". Rather, there are many interpretations. Otherwise lawyers would not have jobs.

Well, written laws may be blurry at times. But if you kill some random person in Wall Street, you're going to be penalized for it no matter what. If you don't pay your taxes, it will have consequences.

We pay our taxes because the government is the one fixing the roads in front of our homes and the one constructing building plans, running the city, ect. Otherwise, these community projects would not be accomplished and we'd probably be driving on dirt roads. If you're sitting back and enjoying the benefits while other people are paying your taxes, would you not have a guilty conscience?

We pay our taxes because it's morally right, not because we think about the economics. The economics is the reason behind the tax-system, that's correct. However, this is not why a person agrees to pay taxes. It's because it's morally right. (Sigh, wish I could explain it better)

If some charity comes at your door asking for money, you can either say yes or no, because both are morally right.

Yet, I feel it somewhat annoying to run through 19 pages of 70% scrolls before I see a 30% scroll, you get me? heh. At least this is what happened for me.

I have had this happen before, but it was not with a popular scroll. I think I was looking for shield magic at the time, I don't remember exactly what scroll. All popular scrolls (such as glove atk, claw atk, overall) appear in the first few pages.

There's actually a few ways around this. Usually a scroll has several variations. If you're looking for a dark scroll, typing dark scroll for as a prefix eliminates 10%/60%/100% from your search. Additionally, if for example, 70% is cheaper than it's 30% counterpart, it's really easy to distinguish which is which just looking at price alone. If you're not looking for a dark scroll, you can just look down the list to see which ones do not have the dark scroll for prefix.

Another method would just be to scroll down the list (which takes 3 seconds each page) and note the item's color. Then it should be blatantly obvious which one you're looking for if the item really is that rare.

If you just mean all the reasonably priced ones are sold out and you had to look through 18 pages to find a decently priced one, then you should probably wait a day or so. I'd never go past the first 10 pages unless looking for a scrolled equip, but those are obvious too because anything OTHER than a popular equip is priced below 1K nx and anything priced above is usually 5K+.

I want to find the best deal on the item, so I go through all fm-shops. No pineappleing way I'll go pay 30 mill for a 30% scroll in fm 1.

As people say, time is money. What's the point in going through all the shops for a 100K difference? I can make 100K killing ~150 wolf spiders, which doesn't take me more than 5 minutes.

I didn't state that people has to compare themselves with someone else, though this is the fact for levelers. Playing a game is about achieving something, getting a reward for being able to do something. Whether it be playing with your friends in a party quest or being known as the best player on the server, it's still about achieving something. The only reason you wouldn't, is because you're going on to talk with someone, and then I'd just say you should go on msn instead, since it lags less. lol

For you, the definition of "achieving something" may be different. Achieving something for me would be not losing anything.

I always thought that parents who do not agree to children playing games wouldn't accept MapleStory either. (You meant paying for it, right?)

Yea, I did mean that. People who play now who don't pay to play are most likely those who cannot go to the store to buy NX. Making MapleStory P2P would mean that in order for someone to play, they MUST charge NX, which means their parents have the control. As a result, Nexon would lose out on their players.

Say it costs 10 dollars per month, and you're able to buy 10-dollar cards at Target. Then most people would most likely be able to go buy these 10-dollars cards, even kids. Though it would be less interesting to play from the beginning, maybe try out some sort of 30/60/90-day free test coupons. Nexon would get a better customer support, and will most likely be able to fix bugs and glitches more efficiently. And the hacker problem will be fixed.

Nexon may not necessarily get better customer support. Their customer support (when it does happen) isn't that bad either. The only reason they suck is because they are ridiculously understaffed, and making MapleStory P2P wouldn't necessarily mean they automatically hire more people.

Though yeah, a lot of people would have to quit maple, and a lot of people would complain in the beginning. I don't know whether Nexon would earn on this or not.

MapleStory itself is a kid's game. By forcing their audience to be older, they'd lose a disproportionate amount of people they can advertise to. MapleStory is... comparable to fishing. They throw the bait, which is the game, into a sea of people and expect people to bite the line, and then the richer people reward them by buying NX. By changing MapleStory to P2P, they're changing their game from fishing to hunting. They're LOOKING for people who can play, and they won't get much.

Still, a good company would focus on happy customers, customers that return. They would as well focus on a good image. Whether you have competitors or not is irrelevant really, as you should gain more customers in this way anyway.

Maybe for Nexon, their income is enough to sustain this minimal effort.

Ah, okay. Well, it's just mean to state "ahahah, no spot4u", but I'd say, if I see a spot free and I take it, "sorry, I didn't see you being here earlier". Now, if there's a spot free if I move, I'd still be scared to do it due to scammers and tricksters.

See in the picture on the first post, I didn't need the spot eh?

I suppose you would have a higher chance of selling out, but then again, if a person's really going to go that far to search, he/she would search more than just your FM room.

Contradicts with this:

 Spoiler

Generally, if you'd want to visit ALL the shops, it'd take a long time. This is why there are priority of spots, where you'd want to visit something in CC1 more than CC15. As I said, if you know where to look, it shouldn't take you all that long.

How's it contradictory? More doesn't mean all. :f6:

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I hope it is the first.

Wha...?

Well, written laws may be blurry at times. But if you kill some random person in Wall Street, you're going to be penalized for it no matter what. If you don't pay your taxes, it will have consequences.

That's because those laws are written more clearly. However, there are varying degrees of murder: accidental, intentional, out of retaliation, out of defense, ect. Each have different consequences. If you don't pay your taxes, it will have consequences as well, but maybe you felt it was unjustified. You might try bringing the case to a court.

We pay our taxes because it's morally right, not because we think about the economics. The economics is the reason behind the tax-system, that's correct. However, this is not why a person agrees to pay taxes. It's because it's morally right. (Sigh, wish I could explain it better)

Isn't that what I just said? Reaping benefits without contributing to a project would make you feel guilty. That's what tax evaders do (except they probably don't feel guilt...)

If some charity comes at your door asking for money, you can either say yes or no, because both are morally right.

Because you're not obligated to them.