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Post-BB Bowmaster SP Distribution

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Post-BB Bowmaster SP Distribution
Yokuyin
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#1
2010-11-15, 07:00 AM (This post was last modified: 2010-11-17, 12:41 PM by Yokuyin.)
Hello people of Southperry. Since I'm bored, didn't know how to distribute my SP, and like lots of numbers; I decided to use my very limited programming skills to calculate with a given amount of SP, which SP distribution would get me the highest damage. And since I have nothing better to do, I decided to share it with you guys.

WARNING: Because of my very limited programming skills, the use of Wolfram Mathematica instead of a proper programming language, and the possibility of me misunderstanding some formula's, I won't claim that these calculations are accurate. To be fair, I don't expect them to be accurate, but they will give me some insight about which skills is better damage-wise. Don't sue me if you use these calculations to distribute your SP, and they turn out to be far below optimal (you can still praise me if that doesn't happen Wink).

Also, I only included the skills Hurricane, Sharp Eyes, Bow Expert, Maple Warrior, Concentrate and Marksmanship. The other skills (Vengeance, Phoenix, Dragon Breath, Hamstring and Hero's Will) are usefull for other things, but not damage. Smile

Since there are some boring calculations, I've hid them in the spoilers.

 Spoiler

And now the results, also in a spoiler because it's a loooooong table.
 Spoiler

Some results:
  • First start with 1 point in Hurricane, Bow Expert, Sharp Eyes and Concentrate, in that order; since they give already a great boost with only 1 SP. (see note 4 about 1 point in SE)
  • After that, put points in Hurricane till it's 17.
  • After that, Hurricane and Bow Expert give almost the same damage boost, which corresponds to every time you level, you put 2 points in Bow Expert and 1 in Hurricane.
  • When Hurricane is 30 and Bow Expert 29, you put points in Maple Warrior. The reason that every odd level a skillpoint appears at Bow Expert is because Maple Warrior only increases in power at odd SP.
  • Now something strange happens, the table continues with maxing Maple Warrior, and then stats maxing Sharp Eyes. But at 104 SP, it goes from 13 SE, 1 Conc, 29 MW to 1 SE, 26 Conc, 17 MW. After that, it starts maxing Maple Warrior again, and then maxing Sharp Eyes.
  • After that, the remaining points are put in Concentrate, and at last Marksmanship is maxed. The reason why it is so low is because we used a monster with only 10 PDRate, which are most training monsters. Marksmanship gets SP earlier at monsters with higher PDRate (see table below the SP table).

Some reasons why the calculations can be off:
  1. I used my own attack range, which can be quite off of other BMs.
  2. I didn't use the fact that I have a Critical Ring, since I don't know how it will work post-BB (CritDamage doesn't exist anymore, it's now CritMinDamage and CritMaxDamage).
  3. Don't forget that damage isn't everything. You may have the highest possible damage, but your chances to get in a party without Sharp Eyes are quite lower. And you won't train faster if you die every time because you didn't spend points in Marksmanship. Wink
  4. I don't take into account that some buffs have a time till they run out. Therefore you'll see that it keeps Sharp Eyes at 1 for a while, while it only lasts 10 seconds. Therefore 1 Sharp Eyes isn't recommended, otherwise you're too busy with rebuffing SE.
  5. I'm a bad programmer and make mistakes. =P

I hope there is some useful stuff in here for you, and I hope you liked it. =)
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Dusk
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#2
2010-11-15, 07:06 AM
I'm pretty sure Marksmanship gives you a 20% chance to ignore defense, not a 20% reduction to enemy defense. Seemed a bit off to see Marksmanship as the very first maxed skill.

Edit: My bad, apparently in GMST, ITD currently does nothing.
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JoeTang
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#3
2010-11-15, 07:09 AM
Attack Potions stack with Concentrate.
One point in Marksmanship is usually on the level of less than 50 HP.
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Yokuyin
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#4
2010-11-15, 07:27 AM
JoeTang Wrote:Attack Potions stack with Concentrate.
One point in Marksmanship is usually on the level of less than 50 HP.

Thanks, I'll remove that note. =)

Marksmanship is taken because you do more damage to monster, if I understand the skill correctly. For example if you have a monster with PDRate 20, you will do 20% less damage to it. If you max Marksmanship, the PDRate is lowered to 0. So your damage goes from 80% to 100%, a boost of 25% (percent, not percentpoints).
On monsters with for example PDRate 5, you go from 95% to 100% (5.3% boost), and putting more then 3 points in Marksmanship won't change anything with your damage. On monsters with higher PDRate, for example Pink Bean has PDRate 70, you go from 30% to 50%, a boost of 66.7%, a massive boost compared to your other skills.
The keyword is if I understand the skill correctly, I'm not sure about it. Chin

Edit: I'm wrong, as Fiel pointed out 2 posts below. The current calculations will show the correct PDRate formula.
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JoeTang
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#5
2010-11-15, 07:32 AM
Yokuyin Wrote:Thanks, I'll remove that note. =)

Marksmanship is taken because you do more damage to monster, if I understand the skill correctly. For example if you have a monster with PDRate 20, you will do 20% less damage to it. If you max Marksmanship, the PDRate is lowered to 0. So your damage goes from 80% to 100%, a boost of 25% (percent, not percentpoints).
On monsters with for example PDRate 5, you go from 95% to 100% (5.3% boost), and putting more then 3 points in Marksmanship won't change anything with your damage. On monsters with higher PDRate, for example Pink Bean has PDRate 70, you go from 30% to 50%, a boost of 66.7%, a massive boost compared to your other skills.
The keyword is if I understand the skill correctly, I'm not sure about it. Chin

Quote:And you won't train faster if you die every time because you didn't spend points in Marksmanship. Wink
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Fiel
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#6
2010-11-15, 07:59 AM
If you look at a post by 505, you'll see that his calculations for how ignoreMobpdpR works are extremely accurate.

So if you have a mob with 25% PDR and you ignore 20% of that, the mob will have 20% PDR instead of 25%. Remember, when in doubt use multiplication. Multiplication is a hell of a lot more fair than addition and subtraction and a lot of formulas people are coming up with use pure multiplication. So yeah, it's not as great as it seems, but it's a decent buff.
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Yokuyin
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#7
2010-11-15, 08:07 AM
Fiel Wrote:If you look at a post by 505, you'll see that his calculations for how ignoreMobpdpR works are extremely accurate.

So if you have a mob with 25% PDR and you ignore 20% of that, the mob will have 20% PDR instead of 25%. Remember, when in doubt use multiplication. Multiplication is a hell of a lot more fair than addition and subtraction and a lot of formulas people are coming up with use pure multiplication. So yeah, it's not as great as it seems, but it's a decent buff.

Ah, that explains why Marksmanship seems so overpowed. Thanks for the info, I'll redo the calculations immediatly. =)

@JoeTang: Sorry, I thought it was aimed at the Damage reduction part.
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Yokuyin
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#8
2010-11-16, 03:25 PM
The calculations seem to be done. Some interesting results:
  • A jump happens from 103 to 104 SP. First it maxes Maple Warrior and starts putting points in Sharp Eyes, and at 104 SP it puts 26 points in Concentrate and leaves Sharp Eyes and Maple Warrior at 1 respectively 17, where it starts maxing Maple Warrior and Sharp Eyes again. Seems there is a turnpoint where Concentrate becomes more powerfull then SE+MW. The turning point can be at another point for people with other damage ranges, since it depends on the attack bonus of Concentrate.
  • Sharp Eyes appears very low in the table, it seems that it's quite nerved during Big Bang because it doesn't give anymore the +100% critical damage bonus for classes who already have critical hits.
  • Marksmanship appears dead last on the table, but that can be explained because I used a monster with PDRate 10, which is about right for a training monster (they have PDRates between 5 and 20 at levels 120+). Bosses have much higher PDRates, here are some results when changing the DPRate:


PDRateMonstersSP Order
5 & 10Most training monstersAs table
40Horntail & Zakum1 Hur1 BE1 SE1 Conc+4 Hur+1 in Hur and MMS till MMS is 10As table
50Chaos Horntail & Chaos Zakum1 Hur1 BE1 SE7 MSS1 Conc+3 MMSAs table
70Pink Bean1 Hur1 MMS1 BE10 MMSAs table

So if you plan to boss alot, maxing Marksmanship earlier is recommended.
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Nalek
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#9
2010-11-16, 03:40 PM
Having a 10 second long SE isnt too useful. It may be the best for 'highest damage' but when you have to cast it so much your DPM is gonna suffer.
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Dusk
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#10
2010-11-16, 06:35 PM
Since you can't really be resetting your SP every level up, we should go with a simplified version and most builds should start off like this:

1 Hurricane, 1 DB, 1 BE
20 Hurricane
Max BE
Max Hurricane

Then add in order depending on preferences and needs:
MW (first if doing a lot of soloing or no one in party has it, last if typically in a party that already has it)
SE (if partying often)
Marksmanship (earlier if bossing often, also supplements HP growth)
Concentrate (if none of the above 3 are needed very much - could happen in training parties that include another, higher levelled archer)
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Yokuyin
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#11
2010-12-10, 03:07 PM (This post was last modified: 2010-12-12, 02:15 PM by Yokuyin.)
I just realized I made a mistake. I forgot the new Final Attack. D:

FA has effect on the Hurricane formula, changing 140 + 2 sp to 140 + 2 sp + 0.4*150 = 200 + 2 sp. This has effect because now the +2 per sp has a less overall damage increase in %, and will make the breakpoint of when to add in Bow Expert much sooner.

Even worse, the breakpoint now depends on the Bowmasters attack from equips, since the +W.atk from Bow Expert has a significant contribution now. Let me try to explain. First the boring calculations, after that the results.

Let me first explain how I discovered it. Looking at 31 SP to distribute, what is better, 1 Hur 30 BE, or 30 Hur 1 BE? Here P2 are my own stats.
Code:
P2 = {131, 637, 110, 65, 45, 120, 150, 0, 0};
Hurricane[1, Expert[30, P2]]
Hurricane[30, Expert[1, P2]]

8.43557*10^8
8.0107*10^8
So 30 BE is stronger then 30 Hurricane! But what if I increase my attack to 300 (was 131 before)
Code:
P2 = {300, 637, 110, 65, 45, 120, 150, 0, 0};
Hurricane[1, Expert[30, P2]]
Hurricane[30, Expert[1, P2]]

1.72903*10^9
1.82668*10^9
Now 30 Hurricane is stronger! So now I changed my attack in a variable atk, and did the same for my dex and str. Then I calculated if I start with putting points in Hurricane, at how much SP in Hurricane I should put my first 2 points in Bow Expert? (2 points because the mastery of Bow Expert only increases every odd SP)
Code:
P1 = {atk, dex, str, 65, 45, 120, 150, 0, 0};
Table[Solve[Hurricane[i + 2, Expert[1, P1]] == Hurricane[i, Expert[3, P1]], atk][[1, 1, 2]], {i, 1, 28}]

{166.93, 169.691, 172.488, 175.321, 178.192, 181.101, 184.049,
187.037, 190.066, 193.135, 196.247, 199.402, 202.601, 205.845,
209.135, 212.471, 215.856, 219.289, 222.773, 226.307, 229.894,
233.534, 237.228, 240.979, 244.786, 248.652, 252.577, 256.564}
And the same vice versa: If I start with putting points in Bow Expert, when should I start with Hurricane?
Code:
Table[Solve[Hurricane[1, Expert[i + 2, P1]] == Hurricane[3, Expert[i, P1]], atk][[1, 1, 2]], {i, 1, 28}]

{166.93, 165.93, 164.396, 163.396, 161.871, 160.871, 159.355,
158.355, 156.847, 155.847, 154.348, 153.348, 151.857, 150.857,
149.374, 148.374, 146.898, 145.898, 144.431, 143.431, 141.97,
140.97, 139.517, 138.517, 137.071, 136.071, 134.632, 133.632}

Now we know in what attack range it becomes interesting: between 133 and 257 atk. Now I'm redoing the calculations in the first post, with an extra variable atk. Since whatever your attack is, Bow Expert and Hurricane are the first skills you will max, I do only the calculations where you can only put points in Bow Expert and Hurricane, and where you have 1 point in Concentrate (1 point in Sharp Eyes isn't recommended). Then calculate the best skillbuild for all possible attacks between 130 and 260.

Code:
AtkTruth[n_, stats_] := Table[If[{Element[n/2, Integers], i == If[n > 30, 30, n]} == {False, True} || i > n || n - i > 30, 0,
((Concentrate[1, stats][[8]]/360)*Hurricane[i, Expert[n - i, Concentrate[1, stats]]] +
((360 - Concentrate[1, stats][[8]])/360)*Hurricane[i, Expert[n - i, stats]])],
{i, 0, If[n > 30, 30, n]}]

AtkLazy[sp_, stats_, a_] := Module[{table, max, pos}, {table = AtkTruth[sp, stats] /. {atk -> a}; max = Max[table];
pos = Flatten[Position[table, max] - 1]; Delete[pos, 0], sp - pos[[1]]}]

AtkVeryLazy[stats_, a_] := Table[Join[{i}, AtkLazy[i, stats, a]], {i, 1, 60}]

AtkVeryVeryLazy = Table[Join[{a}, AtkVeryLazy[P3, a]] // TableForm, {a, 130, 260}]

As with the first post, AtkTruth calculates the damage of all possible skillbuilds, AtkLazy finds the maximum, AtkVeryLazy finds the maximum for all possible available SP, and AtkVeryVeryLazy finds the maximum for all possible available SP and all attacks between 130 and 260. Here are the results:


Atk
0-13329 BE30 Hur
13427 BE1 Hur 2 BE30 Hur
135-13725 BE1 Hur 2 BE30 Hur
138-13923 BE1 Hur 2 BE30 Hur
140-14221 BE1 Hur 2 BE30 Hur
143-14419 BE1 Hur 2 BE30 Hur
145-14717 BE1 Hur 2 BE30 Hur
148-15015 BE1 Hur 2 BE30 Hur
151-15213 BE1 Hur 2 BE30 Hur
153-15411 BE1 Hur 2 BE30 Hur
155-1579 BE1 Hur 2 BE30 Hur
158-1597 BE1 Hur 2 BE30 Hur
160-1625 BE1 Hur 2 BE30 Hur
163-1643 BE1 Hur 2 BE30 Hur
165-1672 Hur2 BE 1 Hur30 Hur
167-1703 Hur2 BE 1 Hur30 Hur
171-1724 Hur2 BE 1 Hur30 Hur
173-1755 Hur2 BE 1 Hur30 Hur
176-1786 Hur2 BE 1 Hur30 Hur
179-1817 Hur2 BE 1 Hur30 Hur
182-1848 Hur2 BE 1 Hur30 Hur
185-1879 Hur2 BE 1 Hur30 Hur
188-19010 Hur2 BE 1 Hur30 Hur
191-19311 Hur2 BE 1 Hur30 Hur
194-19712 Hur2 BE 1 Hur30 Hur
198-20013 Hur2 BE 1 Hur30 Hur
201-20314 Hur2 BE 1 Hur30 Hur
204-20615 Hur2 BE 1 Hur30 Hur
207-21016 Hur2 BE 1 Hur till 28 Hur29 BE30 Hur
211-21317 Hur2 BE 1 Hur till 28 Hur29 BE30 Hur
214-21618 Hur2 BE 1 Hur till 28 Hur29 BE30 Hur
217-22019 Hur2 BE 1 Hur till 28 Hur29 BE30 Hur
221-22320 Hur2 BE 1 Hur till 28 Hur29 BE30 Hur
224-22721 Hur2 BE 1 Hur till 28 Hur29 BE30 Hur
228-23122 Hur2 BE 1 Hur till 28 Hur29 BE30 Hur
232-23423 Hur2 BE 1 Hur till 28 Hur29 BE30 Hur
235-23824 Hur2 BE 1 Hur till 28 Hur29 BE30 Hur
239-24225 Hur2 BE 1 Hur till 28 Hur29 BE30 Hur
243-24626 Hur2 BE 1 Hur till 28 Hur29 BE30 Hur
247-25027 Hur2 BE 1 Hur till 28 Hur29 BE30 Hur
251+28 Hur29 BE30 Hur


So for example, if you have an total attack of 175, then the skillbuild that will give you the best Hurricane damage will be 1 Concentrate -> 1 Bow Expert -> 5 Hurricane -> Every level 2 SP in BE and 1 in Hur -> Max Hurricane.

An easy way to calculate your attack without looking at your equips is using this formula, where MaxDamage is the highest damage in your damage range, as seen in your stats window, including attack potions and equips, excluding Concentrate:

Attack = MaxDamage/(4*DEX + STR) * 200/3

So for example, I have a MaxDamage of 5223, and I have a total of 637 Dex and 110 Str, then my attack is 5223/(4*637+110) * 200/3 = 131, so I should max Bow Expert first, and then Hurricane.


I hope I made it a bit clear. It is quite a bit more complicated then I thought. :S
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