Non-Battleship Corsair?

Well, I enjoy playing my outlaw because it has decent mobility, decent mobbing with the fire and ice combo, and it has good single target damage with Burst Fire + Octopi, but I realize that if I get it to the corsair levels, like most corsairs, I'd need battleship and cannon to keep up.

The thought of being dependent on a "transformation" that makes you incredibly slow and is not always consistent does not appeal to me, despite the large amounts of damage possible while on the ship, and the ability to easily keep the ship from breaking at higher levels. I've heard that a good level of Rapid Fire rivals Hurricane and Triple Throw, and Ice Splitter + Flamethrower with Elemental Boost is an underestimated mobbing combo. Of course at later levels, I'd be maxing Battleship and Cannon, but I was wondering if RF + EB first would be an okay idea. Any thoughts and comments are welcome.

No. It's a horrible idea. RF is like half of cannon, and the movement speed will barely slow you down when training.

You don't stay on the ship all of the time, you dismount when you want to travel.

RF is not at all comparable with Hurricane/TT because of lack of critical. Critical gives Hurricane the majority of its damage, and likewise for TT when SE is involved. (Without SE, TT is just as lulzy.)

The ship is actually a lot more fun than it seems. It's really great to whiz across the map and then climb onboard in midair and suddenly start dishing heavy damage. You can dismount/mount pretty quickly and you keep up the same mobility you had before. It's pretty interesting to manage the on/off mode, finding a compromise between power and speed.

Rapid Fire is mostly only for bossing and not very helpful except when your ship breaks. It's much weaker than Cannon. Elemental Boost is a decent skill, but I don't know anyone who didn't fall in love with the awesomeness of Torpedo once they got it to a good level. It is one of the best mob skills in the game. Definitely has to be maxed before EB.

As everyone else has said, you would be pretty weak if you don't do Bship+Cannon first. However, if -- for some reason -- you're very committed to not being on your Battleship for a while, I'd suggest a build like this.

21 Rapid Fire
21 Elemental Boost
30 Rapid Fire
30 Air Strike
30 Elemental Boost

If you wanted to boss off your boat, you might consider putting Bullseye somewhere near the end. You're right about IS+FT being an underestimated combo though, it can end up very strong. Unfortunately, it also relies on your enemies not being strong to either element.

Once again, this is a pretty bad idea. For a lot of this build you'll just be similar to a weak Bowmaster, and your ability to boss will be nothing special either. If you still wanna do it well... good luck.

Alright, thanks for the replies. I'll get Cannon first for sure, and I'll decide whether I want Torpedo or Elemental Boost after.

Alright, thanks for the replies. I'll get Cannon first for sure, and I'll decide whether I want Torpedo or Elemental Boost after.

The problem I have with EB, aside from it being slightly weaker than Torpedo, is that you'll take quite a lot of damage mobbing with it. Whenever you cast Flamethrower it will unfreeze any monsters that were frozen from the previous Ice Splitter. Needless to say, you'll get hit almost the entire time you're mobbing in this fashion.

Also, since I train at Oblivion 2, it wouldn't work for me at all. Monsters throughout the top two tiers of the Time Temple are strong to Ice or Fire, so mobbing like that would suck.

The problem I have with EB, aside from it being slightly weaker than Torpedo, is that you'll take quite a lot of damage mobbing with it. Whenever you cast Flamethrower it will unfreeze any monsters that were frozen from the previous Ice Splitter. Needless to say, you'll get hit almost the entire time you're mobbing in this fashion.

Also, since I train at Oblivion 2, it wouldn't work for me at all. Monsters throughout the top two tiers of the Time Temple are strong to Ice or Fire, so mobbing like that would suck.

Flame thrower unfreezes? I thought it doesn't when I played a friend's outlaw long times ago(did they change it or am I just wrong to begin with? o.O)

The problem I have with EB, aside from it being slightly weaker than Torpedo, is that you'll take quite a lot of damage mobbing with it. Whenever you cast Flamethrower it will unfreeze any monsters that were frozen from the previous Ice Splitter. Needless to say, you'll get hit almost the entire time you're mobbing in this fashion.

Also, since I train at Oblivion 2, it wouldn't work for me at all. Monsters throughout the top two tiers of the Time Temple are strong to Ice or Fire, so mobbing like that would suck.

You make a pretty persuasive argument. Dammit, they just had to make battleship skills so effective, any other skills (excluding Air Strike) are basically useless except for freezing and filling in the 90 second cool-down.

Sounds like you don't like it o.O

I wish transform for bucc had a bigger boost over normal skills, so much pts for so little boost

You make a pretty persuasive argument. Dammit, they just had to make battleship skills so effective, any other skills (excluding Air Strike) are basically useless except for freezing and filling in the 90 second cool-down.

Yeah, that's why I'm going to get Elemental Boost second to last (before Hypnotize), which is a shame because I think Elemental Boost is a pretty damn cool skill.

Sounds like you don't like it o.O

I wish transform for bucc had a bigger boost over normal skills, so much pts for so little boost

Sorry to say, but Buccs are not a very well-thought out class. While they're training, there's pretty much no reason to transform aside from the natural Haste. And while they're bossing they're damn near useless because Stun Mastery is a garbage skill (just admit it) and Demo takes longer than the intro to Stairway to Heaven. They do make good SI + TL mules though.

Its really a shame that they aren't more like Strikers. Their crit (and their entire skillset really) is far far better for bossing. Pretty damn good at training too.

...no, I'm not just sucking Sparks' cock

Yeah, that's why I'm going to get Elemental Boost second to last (before Hypnotize), which is a shame because I think Elemental Boost is a pretty damn cool skill.


Sorry to say, but Buccs are not a very well-thought out class. While they're training, there's pretty much no reason to transform aside from the natural Haste. And while they're bossing they're damn near useless because Stun Mastery is a garbage skill (just admit it) and Demo takes longer than the intro to Stairway to Heaven. They do make good SI + TL mules though.

Its really a shame that they aren't more like Strikers. Their crit (and their entire skillset really) is far far better for bossing. Pretty damn good at training too.

...no, I'm not just sucking Sparks' cock

How bout if this happened:

http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16946

Read the Buccaneer section of counter guard - strike.

Yeah, that's why I'm going to get Elemental Boost second to last (before Hypnotize), which is a shame because I think Elemental Boost is a pretty damn cool skill.


Sorry to say, but Buccs are not a very well-thought out class. While they're training, there's pretty much no reason to transform aside from the natural Haste. And while they're bossing they're damn near useless because Stun Mastery is a garbage skill (just admit it) and Demo takes longer than the intro to Stairway to Heaven. They do make good SI + TL mules though.

Its really a shame that they aren't more like Strikers. Their crit (and their entire skillset really) is far far better for bossing. Pretty damn good at training too.

...no, I'm not just sucking Sparks' cock

Saying we're useless at bosses is a little extreme.. my dps on single targets=that of heros far beyond my lvl. Demo might be slow but it hits 8 times just as fast as hero's brandish hits 8 times total. Since hero's are seen among the top bossing classes I think it's a little weird you call us crap, but I'll give you this, stun mastery has no point what so ever at bosses. If it was just a trigger, even only 10% of the time, then with SE we would be a lot more effective too.

Saying we're useless at bosses is a little extreme.. my dps on single targets=that of heros far beyond my lvl.

lol. You're funny. Just because you may have outdamaged a higher level Hero, doesn't mean anything. He might have had much worse gear than you, and if you were both appled, that tips the scales in your favor.

Lets look at some simple numbers here.
Brandish does 988% damage/swing
988*1000/690 = 1431.9% DPS

Demolition does 3200% damage/attack
3200*1000/2340 = 1367.5% DPS

Not only that, but a Hero will generally have a higher damage range than a Bucc (Buccs have a better multiplier, but much lower attack. That's why apples help them nearly as much as NLs), and unlike Demolition, Brandish can be used all the time. Not to mention Stance.

Buccs are good SI and TL mules, and they can also chip in to the damage done. That's it! They won't KS any other attacking class (except maybe Pallies if they're appled) provided there isn't a massive difference in gear.

Don't get me wrong, I think Buccs are cool. Tons of people enjoy them regardless of how much damage they can do to a single target. Time Leap is incredibly helpful in boss runs, and they can train quite quickly. But that won't change the fact that they're a subpar damage class at best.

Couldn't help but to point out some stuff you've mistaken Kaida.
Buccs and Heroes ranges aren't too far off together. My Hero Lvl 152 (2HSword, Dexless + decently funded) range is lower than my Buccs Lvl 155 (Dexless, inherited equips from Hero).
Super Transformation is useful during further on training, possibly around 165+. Once you get snatch to a decent level (possibly 21?) it could easily be used as a combo at skeles to snatch(stun)+Dragonstrike. Dead.
Buccs are very comparable to Shadowers I believe (I think we dish out more damage the minute >)
Stun Mastery is only garbage during bosses, it has no function at bosses and I'm pretty sure that this was thought out with the koreans otherwise we'd probably be top of the list if we had normal critical + SE + Apple + Demo boom boom -800k+
The fact that we have invincibility frames means that we generally pot less = more attacking (unless you have that useless pet HP / MP junk)
One thing that I have notice is that my bucc does well at zak (haven't HT in such along while, someone holds the cave >_>). During body, I can avoid most 1/1, Lightning (seal) and Fire Pillars (stun). But what I like the most is the mobs dying all in one go when out Dragonstrike lands on them.

Overall I'd say buccs are fairly decent at bossing, not 'crap', not 'great' but decent. Our delays and non-crit at bosses pulls us far back, but our high damage and invincible frames pushes us back in the game.

Let's get back on topic Dx

My friend handles his corsair really well, so well that "boat mobility" isn't a problem. When I see him play, let's say at skeles. He kills off the ones in front of him with cannon, hops off boat, recoil shot, float (glides fast), battleship (during in air) and cannons the rest from the other side of the map.
I actually do prefer Battleship + Cannon build far more than RF +EB because the disadvantages RF has is much greater than cannon.
1# You'll be burning hell of a lot of bullets
2# RF is like Hurricane, so you can't pot while holding it down (Pet HP should work though)
3# Damage is a lot weaker

Anyhow, the choice is yours to make, if you can play your corsair well and use the mobility of recoil + float + battleship then I do recommend the most common build.

Couldn't help but to point out some stuff you've mistaken Kaida.
Buccs and Heroes ranges aren't too far off together. My Hero Lvl 152 (2HSword, Dexless + decently funded) range is lower than my Buccs Lvl 155 (Dexless, inherited equips from Hero).
Super Transformation is useful during further on training, possibly around 165+. Once you get snatch to a decent level (possibly 21?) it could easily be used as a combo at skeles to snatch(stun)+Dragonstrike. Dead.
Buccs are very comparable to Shadowers I believe (I think we dish out more damage the minute >)
Stun Mastery is only garbage during bosses, it has no function at bosses and I'm pretty sure that this was thought out with the koreans otherwise we'd probably be top of the list if we had normal critical + SE + Apple + Demo boom boom -800k+
The fact that we have invincibility frames means that we generally pot less = more attacking (unless you have that useless pet HP / MP junk)
One thing that I have notice is that my bucc does well at zak (haven't HT in such along while, someone holds the cave >_>). During body, I can avoid most 1/1, Lightning (seal) and Fire Pillars (stun). But what I like the most is the mobs dying all in one go when out Dragonstrike lands on them.

Overall I'd say buccs are fairly decent at bossing, not 'crap', not 'great' but decent. Our delays and non-crit at bosses pulls us far back, but our high damage and invincible frames pushes us back in the game.

I would like to re-point out that I said nothing bad of their training ability. They're quite good at that. Also, there's just no way on earth your Bucc could have a higher range than your Hero of the same gear unless your Knuckle is a ton better than your sword. See my last paragraph in my last post for my point. I don't think you read it.

I reading while typing, going back and forwad, trying to pin-point some of the stuff I disagreed with.
Okay, you mentioned about Transformation 'during training' is useless unless of course for the 'haste'. Well, that's where my point of Snatch + Dragonstrike comes in so...

While they're training, there's pretty much no reason to transform aside from the natural Haste.

I would like to re-point out that I said nothing bad of their training ability.

You see, snatch could make a huge difference in training. Whether at skeles or at Oblivion 4.

My sword is 120 atk and my knuckle is 106 atk. Their ranges is very close but my buccs tops it by a bit.

I read the last paragraph that night, Timeleap, train fast. Hmm... ?!?!?!
Hate to stick my finger out but I really don't find us being SI / TL mules (or even called in fact). Maybe some people out there would make a bucc purely for SI and TL just to bring them on runs for faster DPS / More res but for those who continue to train their buccs? Nah. We want to specialise as an attacker aswell as buffing the party.

My sword is 120 atk and my knuckle is 106 atk. Their ranges is very close but my buccs tops it by a bit.

So she was right, your knuckle is a lot better than your sword considering it's a two-hander. According to the DPS calcs I've seen buccs do modest dps while transformed and obviously less when not. They're far from useless even as dps, but heros and ranged attackers and DrKs using zerk have a noticable advantage over them. I don't really remember how pallies compare. With SI in melee parties you'll always be welcome at bosses though. The only chance you'd have at being a skill mule would be if you were level 13x at HT and providing melee with SI and bishops/shadowers with TL. Corsairs get no party skills whatsoever, but they get better dps, and that's the bossing balance.