2009-02-16, 06:37 PM
I made this as a new topic because it is a seperate subtopic within Tool (and I was told I could).
This thread will contain information on the split that occured between art and science so long ago.
Note: It would be a good idea to view the music video for each song if available to better understand the subject.
Schism:
If it's a better idea to do so, merging the two threads would be okay with me but may be more confusing to others.
This thread will contain information on the split that occured between art and science so long ago.
Note: It would be a good idea to view the music video for each song if available to better understand the subject.
Schism:
Spoiler
Resources:
http://classes.design.ucla.edu/Winter09/...og/d/?p=60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhjG47gtMCo (Music Video)
http://www.toolband.com/album/lyrics/lateralus.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anima_(Jung)
Lyrics:
I know the pieces fit ‘cause I watched them fall away
mildewed and smoldering, fundamental differing,
pure intention juxtaposed will set two lovers souls in motion
disintegrating as it goes testing our communication
the light that fueled our fire then has burned a hole between us so
we cannot see to reach an end crippling our communication.
I know the pieces fit ‘cause I watched them tumble down
no fault, none to blame it doesn't mean I don't desire to
point the finger, blame the other, watch the temple topple over.
To bring the pieces back together, rediscover communication.
The poetry that comes from the squaring off between,
and the circling is worth it.
Finding beauty in the dissonance.
There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away.
Mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting
I've done the math enough to know the dangers of a second guessing
Doomed to crumble unless we grow, and strengthen our communication
cold silence has a tendency to atrophy any sense of compassion
between supposed lovers
between supposed brothers.
And I know the pieces fit.
Notes on the schisms of our history:
This song is perhaps one of the most complex of all. It is vague while being descriptive all at the same time. When viewing these lyrics, the first thing that comes to mind is the schism of the Christian Church long ago, known as the Great Schism or the East-West Schism.
The Christian Church had been separated in the late 1000’s, splitting into the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church. They split because of different reasons- the East belonged to the Greek language, and the Roman Catholic became Latin. Not only this, but they had a disagreement on who would lead the church. One side wanted the emperor to appoint the head patriarch, while the other welcomed the Idea of a Pope to lead. They also disagreed on the worship of Icons, images of crucified Jesus or the Virgin Mary. They disagreed on which holiday was to be the holiest, as well. A religion that was supposedly composed of people who loved each other was torn apart. Still today there is evidence of this split.
Not only did the Christian Church split. Further back in time there was another great schism- the Islamic Schism occurred between 632 to the late 600’s. The Islamic religion was founded by Muhammad Ali, and is the newest major religion, still existing today. When Muhammad died without leaving a successor to lead the religion, a dispute broke out. Some of the people wanted to appoint based on bloodline, while others wanted to appoint based on friendship and knowledge. Abu Bakr was appointed caliph after meeting with Muhammad’s close family at his funeral. However, many of Muhammad’s companions wanted another Ali to lead. This occurred within the whole Muslim community, and eventually they split into two groups; the Sunnis and Shi’ites. Today in the Middle East there is still fighting going on between them.
Both instances involve a dispute over a leader, as it seems. However, there are some ways of looking at this song that don’t involve religion. In the music video, a man and woman are trying to communicate with each other. The two of them communicate in different ways and cannot get the message across because of it. Many people look at this song as a love song, as strange as it sounds. There has been some event that has crippled their relationship, and as a result they break apart. The problem with the three examples given is simple; it just doesn’t fit the style of Tool. The band isn’t known for making too many songs on simple occurrences or things that happened only in the past. They deal with more current issues; even if the song kept them together they know their fans would rather not deal with personal issues. You may say “but the religion examples fit, they’re still happening today.” It still isn’t their style, as they aren’t that involved with connecting Christianity or Islam, or with any specific religion for that matter. If you look in the music video, as well, there are no hints towards those meanings other than just the title and the context.
Many consider art and science to be two different worlds. Some people are more scientifically oriented, while others are more artistically oriented. It is known that the two are contradicting essences, as art is “pure creativity and freedom,” while science is “mechanism and strict adherence to laws.” What I believe this song to be is just this; the schism between art and science. If you take a good look at the music video to interpret it, the man and the woman are given opposite sex for a reason. Explained in notes on the anima (has not been released yet), the anima is the unconscious counterpart of the persona. Being a counterpart of one’s personality, this means that one has the opposite gender to the other. In men, the anima is the essence of a woman. It is also the level of artistic creativity that the male has. There are four defined levels of anima development:
Eve: The lowest level of creativity, the beginning where everyone has to start.
Helen: The second level of creativity, in this level the male has a strong schism between external talents and mechanisms and internal qualities.
Mary: The third level of creativity. In this level the male has developed a sort of spirituality but has not obtained a good communication between his persona and his anima. There is such a communication, but not as developed as the final level.
Sofia: The fourth and final level of creativity, named after the Greek word for wisdom. In this phase the male has a good communication between his persona and anima. He has a great amount of creativity and knowledge, which comes from his persona.
In a female, the opposite occurs. On each lever she moves toward masculinity in her animus (the female version of the anima). This means she develops more scientific and mechanical skills and planned action. The four levels of this are the same as a male’s intensity of creativity:
The athlete: The first level of masculinity, the embodiment of physical power.
The planner: The second level of masculinity, planned action is more used as well as independence.
The professor: The third level of scientific development, English skills such as mechanics are more developed.
The guide: Like Sofia, this is the highest level of the development of a female’s animus.
As the anima/animus develops, communication with one’s self and others develops as well. When there is an imbalance between one’s persona and anima, there may be less communication and creativity. The persona is the person that holds the anima, defined by the knowledge the person holds. If one does not know enough to explain his or her creativity, then chances are the communication isn’t what it is said to be.
Watching the video from beginning to end, there are a lot of clues to an art and science schism meaning. The woman in the beginning is both logic and art. She ventures the world until she realizes not only art can explain everything. She sinks into the floor while the feet of the man appear. She pulls herself out realizing the feelings she has left behind. In doing so, she grabs the man’s feet out of the floor, splitting art and science into two contradicting essences, two different genders. She cannot communicate with the man knowing they don’t speak the same language. No matter how hard they try, they cannot make ends meet. Throughout the video they try different ways and methods to get their messages across. Eventually at the end they become juxtaposed and become one mind yet again. This corresponds to the lyrics as at the end a circling flame is shown.
“The light that fueled our fire then has burned a hole between us, so…”
The anima/animus references can be seen as well. To the man, the woman is his only counterpart. To the woman, there are several male counterparts. If you notice inside the male a creature forms whose gender seems to be most likely male. During the video multiple of these creatures attack the woman. In a male’s anima, there is only one “guide” that is a female, seen in dreams. In a female’s animus, there are multiple male figures seen in dreams.
Concluding, this complex song was the product of an attempt to bring art and science back together. They were once one long ago, until our desire for knowledge split them up.
http://classes.design.ucla.edu/Winter09/...og/d/?p=60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhjG47gtMCo (Music Video)
http://www.toolband.com/album/lyrics/lateralus.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anima_(Jung)
Lyrics:
I know the pieces fit ‘cause I watched them fall away
mildewed and smoldering, fundamental differing,
pure intention juxtaposed will set two lovers souls in motion
disintegrating as it goes testing our communication
the light that fueled our fire then has burned a hole between us so
we cannot see to reach an end crippling our communication.
I know the pieces fit ‘cause I watched them tumble down
no fault, none to blame it doesn't mean I don't desire to
point the finger, blame the other, watch the temple topple over.
To bring the pieces back together, rediscover communication.
The poetry that comes from the squaring off between,
and the circling is worth it.
Finding beauty in the dissonance.
There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away.
Mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting
I've done the math enough to know the dangers of a second guessing
Doomed to crumble unless we grow, and strengthen our communication
cold silence has a tendency to atrophy any sense of compassion
between supposed lovers
between supposed brothers.
And I know the pieces fit.
Notes on the schisms of our history:
This song is perhaps one of the most complex of all. It is vague while being descriptive all at the same time. When viewing these lyrics, the first thing that comes to mind is the schism of the Christian Church long ago, known as the Great Schism or the East-West Schism.
The Christian Church had been separated in the late 1000’s, splitting into the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church. They split because of different reasons- the East belonged to the Greek language, and the Roman Catholic became Latin. Not only this, but they had a disagreement on who would lead the church. One side wanted the emperor to appoint the head patriarch, while the other welcomed the Idea of a Pope to lead. They also disagreed on the worship of Icons, images of crucified Jesus or the Virgin Mary. They disagreed on which holiday was to be the holiest, as well. A religion that was supposedly composed of people who loved each other was torn apart. Still today there is evidence of this split.
Not only did the Christian Church split. Further back in time there was another great schism- the Islamic Schism occurred between 632 to the late 600’s. The Islamic religion was founded by Muhammad Ali, and is the newest major religion, still existing today. When Muhammad died without leaving a successor to lead the religion, a dispute broke out. Some of the people wanted to appoint based on bloodline, while others wanted to appoint based on friendship and knowledge. Abu Bakr was appointed caliph after meeting with Muhammad’s close family at his funeral. However, many of Muhammad’s companions wanted another Ali to lead. This occurred within the whole Muslim community, and eventually they split into two groups; the Sunnis and Shi’ites. Today in the Middle East there is still fighting going on between them.
Both instances involve a dispute over a leader, as it seems. However, there are some ways of looking at this song that don’t involve religion. In the music video, a man and woman are trying to communicate with each other. The two of them communicate in different ways and cannot get the message across because of it. Many people look at this song as a love song, as strange as it sounds. There has been some event that has crippled their relationship, and as a result they break apart. The problem with the three examples given is simple; it just doesn’t fit the style of Tool. The band isn’t known for making too many songs on simple occurrences or things that happened only in the past. They deal with more current issues; even if the song kept them together they know their fans would rather not deal with personal issues. You may say “but the religion examples fit, they’re still happening today.” It still isn’t their style, as they aren’t that involved with connecting Christianity or Islam, or with any specific religion for that matter. If you look in the music video, as well, there are no hints towards those meanings other than just the title and the context.
Many consider art and science to be two different worlds. Some people are more scientifically oriented, while others are more artistically oriented. It is known that the two are contradicting essences, as art is “pure creativity and freedom,” while science is “mechanism and strict adherence to laws.” What I believe this song to be is just this; the schism between art and science. If you take a good look at the music video to interpret it, the man and the woman are given opposite sex for a reason. Explained in notes on the anima (has not been released yet), the anima is the unconscious counterpart of the persona. Being a counterpart of one’s personality, this means that one has the opposite gender to the other. In men, the anima is the essence of a woman. It is also the level of artistic creativity that the male has. There are four defined levels of anima development:
Eve: The lowest level of creativity, the beginning where everyone has to start.
Helen: The second level of creativity, in this level the male has a strong schism between external talents and mechanisms and internal qualities.
Mary: The third level of creativity. In this level the male has developed a sort of spirituality but has not obtained a good communication between his persona and his anima. There is such a communication, but not as developed as the final level.
Sofia: The fourth and final level of creativity, named after the Greek word for wisdom. In this phase the male has a good communication between his persona and anima. He has a great amount of creativity and knowledge, which comes from his persona.
In a female, the opposite occurs. On each lever she moves toward masculinity in her animus (the female version of the anima). This means she develops more scientific and mechanical skills and planned action. The four levels of this are the same as a male’s intensity of creativity:
The athlete: The first level of masculinity, the embodiment of physical power.
The planner: The second level of masculinity, planned action is more used as well as independence.
The professor: The third level of scientific development, English skills such as mechanics are more developed.
The guide: Like Sofia, this is the highest level of the development of a female’s animus.
As the anima/animus develops, communication with one’s self and others develops as well. When there is an imbalance between one’s persona and anima, there may be less communication and creativity. The persona is the person that holds the anima, defined by the knowledge the person holds. If one does not know enough to explain his or her creativity, then chances are the communication isn’t what it is said to be.
Watching the video from beginning to end, there are a lot of clues to an art and science schism meaning. The woman in the beginning is both logic and art. She ventures the world until she realizes not only art can explain everything. She sinks into the floor while the feet of the man appear. She pulls herself out realizing the feelings she has left behind. In doing so, she grabs the man’s feet out of the floor, splitting art and science into two contradicting essences, two different genders. She cannot communicate with the man knowing they don’t speak the same language. No matter how hard they try, they cannot make ends meet. Throughout the video they try different ways and methods to get their messages across. Eventually at the end they become juxtaposed and become one mind yet again. This corresponds to the lyrics as at the end a circling flame is shown.
“The light that fueled our fire then has burned a hole between us, so…”
The anima/animus references can be seen as well. To the man, the woman is his only counterpart. To the woman, there are several male counterparts. If you notice inside the male a creature forms whose gender seems to be most likely male. During the video multiple of these creatures attack the woman. In a male’s anima, there is only one “guide” that is a female, seen in dreams. In a female’s animus, there are multiple male figures seen in dreams.
Concluding, this complex song was the product of an attempt to bring art and science back together. They were once one long ago, until our desire for knowledge split them up.
If it's a better idea to do so, merging the two threads would be okay with me but may be more confusing to others.