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Dual Blade Guide (Chaos, Big Bang, and Pre-Big Bang)
#1
[Image: 01342010.png][Image: 01342011.png]
 Ascension to the Next Level (Not Really)

TABLE OF CONTENTS:

1. Review/Analysis (of the Class)
2. AP Distribution/Training Areas (The Redundant Sections)
3. SP Distribution/Skill Macros (Big Bang and Pre-Big Bang)
4. Chaos Update Implications


[INDENT]I. Thief (Lv. 10-20)
II. Blade Recruit (Lv. 20-30)
II+. Blade Acolyte (Lv. 30-55)
III. Blade Specialist (Lv. 55-70)
III+. Blade Lord (Lv. 70-120)
IV. Blade Master (Lv. 120+)
[*] Damage/Mathematical Analysis
[*] Skill Macros[/INDENT]


5. Guide Changes, Comments/Criticisms/Suggestions Highlights, & Other Useful Threads
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#2
REVIEW/ANALYSIS (OF THE CLASS):

Lots more to come (or not)!
Reply
#3
AP DISTRIBUTION:

I usually don't like these sections because it's a very simple concept that applies to every class. Keep your secondary stat (DEX) as low as possible (in regards to your funding) while being able to wear level appropriate weapons (daggers and kataras). Using a dagger that requires STR is unpractical and highly unrecommended. It can put you at a (major) damage disadvantage, unless you can fulfill the STR requirement from (multiple stat) equipment.

Keeping your secondary stat as low as possible also applies to equips, in a different way to take advantage of potential system tiers.

"As low as possible" shouldn't be taken too seriously because you shouldn't purposely limit game content to yourself.

A more specific DEX cap most DBs have would be 60-80.

Two implications for the future regarding this section include item sets to encourage using all high level equips - recent Von Leon and PvP equips; and scrapping the secondary stat system altogether - the Visitors event and equips.

(/wanted to use a quote)
(/MapleStory's redundant (/poorly designed) stat allocation/secondary stat system)

TRAINING AREAS:

This section can be best substituted with Satellite's All-Class Training Places Guide (Big Bang).
Reply
#4
SP DISTRIBUTION (BIG BANG AND PRE-BIG BANG):

 Spoiler
Reply
#5
"CHAOS" UPDATE IMPLICATIONS:

For a complete list of skills and descriptions, check out Fiel's Thief Skill Tables (Chaos). You will probably want to use Google Translate.

[Image: MapleStory_Chaos.png]
Korean: MapleStory Chaos! (or Cows if you actually heard the promotional video) (GMS Version)

[Image: Free%20Book.png]
Did someone say FREE?

Lots more to come (or not)!

Quick thoughts about "Chaos":

Dual Blade damage has been simplified, because we now actually do damage based on our combined dagger + katara range, instead of alternating between dagger and katara hits. In other words, kataras have basically become glorified attack shields.

"Chaos" solves several issues with the DB class, but it also sacrifices some of the class's uniqueness. Damage has been brought back up to amongst the top, especially when total/boss damage is taken into account. Notable changes to skills include odd Mirror Image changes, a further improved ADS, and new (/recycled) spam skills in 4th job (Phantom Blow = Savage Blow/Fatal Blow v2, Blade Fury = Band of Thieves/Sommersault Kick v2).

My personal opinion from pre-Big Bang times is that Nexon has broken more things about the Dual Blade class than they have fixed/improved in these updates. Maybe I'm just too negatively-minded.

SP DISTRIBUTION:

Colour coding is used to indicate related job advancements that share the same SP pool (unique characteristic of the Dual Blade class).

Skills are listed and should be allocated in the respective orders.


[urlname="ChaosThief"][/urlname]I. THIEF (Lv. 10-20):


[INDENT]10 Double Stab
Save SP

Notes: First job SP allocation doesn't change from Big Bang. (10 Double Stab is a prerequisite for Triple Stab in II job.)[/INDENT]


[urlname="ChaosBladeRecruit"][/urlname]II. BLADE RECRUIT (Lv. 20-30):


[INDENT]1 Triple Stab
5 Katara Mastery
6 Katara Booster
Max (20) Katara Mastery
Max (10) Triple Stab
Max (20) Katara Booster
1 Disorder

Notes:

Second job SP allocation doesn't change from Big Bang.

(The 1 point in Disorder is there because there's nothing worth putting SP into yet, so we start on Dark Sight's (which we will need later on) prerequisite.)[/INDENT]


[urlname="ChaosBladeAcolyte"][/urlname]II+. BLADE ACOLYTE (Lv. 30-55):


[INDENT]Max (20) Slash Storm
Max (20) Self Haste
Max (20) Shadow Resistance
3 Disorder (not 3 more points into Disorder, just that it should be at level 3, as dark sight's prerequisite)
Max (10) Dark Sight
4-5 extra points (Nimble Body preferably, out of all your fairly useless skills)

Notes:

Second job+ SP allocation doesn't change from Big Bang.

Slash Storm actually out-DPSes all of your other skills by far, hence it is maxed first.

There should be no reason to put any points in Fatal Blow. Fatal Blow is 100% useless. Fatal Blow blows. It is never better than Slash Storm, or Triple Stab. You will never use Fatal Blow while training, because it's weak, slow, and it's a single-target skill. Triple Stab would better complement Slash Storm during these levels. Fatal Blow's SP cost is high and increased as a result of Big Bang, and skipping Fatal Blow also allows you to max just about every other Dual Blade skill out there. Both Fatal Blow and Triple Stab are replaced by level 1 Upper Stab, although I would arguably say Fatal Blow is replaced even before you get it; by Triple Stab. Fatal Blow advantages like longer range and higher damage per attack are trivial. "Chaos" further obsoletes Fatal Blow by buffing Triple Stab back to being able to hit up to 3 targets. Another thing to take into consideration is that other builds that actually prioritize Fatal Blow can only have it at level 16/17 by the end of second job+, because of SP restraints. Max Triple Stab still out-DPSes that on any number of targets. Because Slash Storm out-DPSes all of your other skills by far, it would probably be better to compare a Triple Stab + Slash Storm vs. Fatal Blow + Slash Storm combo instead. Fatal Blow + Slash Storm further loses out because Fatal Blow is very slow, which means fewer Slash Storms over time.

Self Haste is maxed next for mobility.

Shadow Resistance is a permanent HP and survivability boost that helps, but you won't need it so early on.

It doesn't matter what you do with the extra points, as they would go in either Nimble Body or Fatal Blow (or Disorder?), all fairly useless skills.[/INDENT]


[urlname="ChaosBladeSpecialist"][/urlname]III. BLADE SPECIALIST (Lv. 55-70):


[INDENT]1 point in every (new) skill
Max (20) Tornado Spin (TS)
Save SP

Notes:

Third job SP allocation doesn't change from Big Bang, save for the 1 SP in Upper Stab. There is never a reason not to put at least 1 point into new skills early on.

The 1 point in Upper Stab, which replaces Triple Stab (and Fatal Blow), should complement Slash Storm well. Other reasons for not allocating more than 1 point in Upper Stab yet include how mobs won't particularly live long enough to take advantage of a higher level Upper Stab. The mob count increase also isn't so important yet, without the efficiency of FA + TS's mob gathering ability. Most importantly, you do not want to allocate more than 1 point into Upper Stab so that you can prioritize getting your main FA training combo and maxing Mirror Image earlier.

Maxing Tornado Spin is preparation for the FA + TS combo in the next job advancement. Just for fun (no practical use, and not sure if it still exists), there's a glitch with TS (not the best example) in which you activate the dash part, then quickly press your normal attack key, the opposite directional key, and another skill simultaneously in order to cancel the other skill's delay. There's also another glitch involving TS and FA.

You don't max Tornado Spin here (1 point instead) if you decided to go ahead with the FA + BS combo first instead of FA + TS in third job+, but I wouldn't recommend that, explained further in the third job+ section.

The saved SP is for getting your main FA training combo and maxing Mirror Image ASAP in the next job advancement. Flash Jump does help, but it's not as important as being able to max Mirror Image earlier. Leave it at level 1, for now.

Skill (Build) Representation Videos (Outdated):

Lv. 62 Blade Specialist at Lower Ascent (Pre-Big Bang)
by epicplayer510 of YouTube[/INDENT]


[urlname="ChaosBladeLord"][/urlname]III+. BLADE LORD (Lv. 70-120):


[INDENT]1 point in every (new) skill
11 Flying Assaulter (Pro-tip: Putting FA on its own skill macro makes it immensely easier to use and combo; it makes FA's minimum height requirement a lot less annoying)
Max (30) Mirror Image (MI)
Max (20) Upper Stab (US)
Max (10) Bloody Storm (BS)
Max (20) Flying Assaulter (FA)
Max (15) Flash Jump (FJ)
Max (10) Advanced Dark Sight (ADS)
Max (20) Chains of Hell (CoH, or simply Chains)
Max (10) Life Drain
Max (5) Flashbang
Max (20) Owl Spirit
14-17 extra points (Nimble Body preferably, out of all your fairly useless skills)

Notes:

Third job+ brings upon a huge mobility boost to your gameplay, and a training style that will last until endgame. It also floods you with an abundance of new and useful skills.

There are a few simple combos here that contribute to your endgame training style. There's the Juggler (US + any skill), which temporary disables any non-boss mob from attacking, and tosses them up for 1.7x damage while airborne. There's an amusing glitch with US and MI, in which a few Malaysian mobs like Booper Scarlions and Vikerolas are tossed much higher than they should be. A special sub-scenario of the Juggler is the (jump) US + FA combo, where the toss effect of US negates the rush ability of FA, so it has very limited use and only as a finisher. Another combo is the Superman (FJ + FA), in which you can cover great distances without touching the ground. I believe it requires an almost-maxed FJ though, if you want to use it on the same horizontal level. Then there are the Flying Assaulter combos - the Hurdler/Rusher (FA + TS), and the Pendulum (FA + BS). The Flying Assaulter combos require at least 10 points in FA and a maxed latter skill in order to combo efficiently, without delay. FA is at level 11 at the start because Chaos apparently made FA's i-frames only become full length at level 11 or higher. Flying Assaulter combos are kind of like splitting a Shadower's Boomerang Step into two parts, and give a huge mobility and training advantage. The FA + TS combo efficiently gathers mobs and is especially effective in long horizontal maps. An interesting but unimportant thing to note about the FA + TS combo is that it is ineffective against Nightshadows who have glitchy KB frames. The FA + BS combo has an abundance of i-frames, and requires less SP to get.

There is never a reason not to put at least 1 point into new skills early on.

1st priority as soon as you advance to third job+ is getting your main FA training combo. It gives you a huge training advantage - huge mobility boost and other things. You get the FA + TS combo before the FA + BS combo because mobs die way too fast (and do far lower damage) after Big Bang and Chaos, in which going constantly in one direction would be better. FA + BS has limited use because of the aforementioned reason(s), although it is viable should you choose it first.

The 2nd most important priority is maxing Mirror Image. Mirror Image gives a large damage boost to all of your skills, therefore it is maxed ASAP after getting your main training combo. MI now always gives a 0.7x boost in damage at max instead of applying other damage boosts twice like how it was before.

Upper Stab is used to finish mobs at the end of platforms while training (with FA + TS). It's also your single-target skill, using it in conjunction with Chains or by itself.

The order of maxing Bloody Storm (your second(ary) FA combo), raising FA above level 11, and maxing Flash Jump is unimportant.

It doesn't really matter what you do after having maxed all of your training skills.

Advanced Dark Sight (ADS) helps Chains, giving it higher damage and the ability to do consecutive CoH's. Going out of your way to cast (A)DS is never worth it solely to take advantage of the damage boost. You could cast (A)DS in situations when a boss weapon cancels/Pap retreats into its shell; basically any situation that involves waiting without the need for mobility/i-frames. The "Dark Sight Trigger Chance: 20%" seems to proc by getting hit, only (bad wording on MapleStory's part...). "Misses" don't count. It can be annoying at times because of Dark Sight's internet latency issues, situations where you deliberately tank touch damage (not sure if that's still possible for any class), and how you still can't loot items while being in Dark Sight. An interesting but unimportant thing to note is that the trigger chance does seem to take into account multi-hit attacks like those from Reindeer in LHC, which means it can proc more often.

Chains is a bossing skill. You might as well level up your bossing skills having already maxed all your training skills. It is our only skill with i-frames that doesn't move you. This skill is more for utility than damage because spamming Upper Stab out-DPSes using CoH. This skill is actually pretty weak and SP allocation into this skill could further be delayed if you don't have any use for the utility this skill offers in bossing. You would fill in the delay after this skill with mostly US*2, or Bloody Storm; the latter only if moving your character is not a liability and/or you can actually take advantage of Bloody Storm's i-frames. An interesting but unimportant change after Chaos is that all attacks after Chains can now KB. Before Chaos, using Chains meant you wouldn't be able to KB the target during Chains's "stun-KB", with the exception of using attacks that KB multiple times. This is probably a side-effect of how we no longer alternate between dagger and katara hits.

Life Drain is almost useless from my personal experience, and is far from reliable. It rarely procs and heals too little when it does proc. It seems to proc per attack/skill cast, rather than per hit. Life Drain's heal amount also excludes % HP boosts like Shadow Resistance and self-HB. It's prioritized before Flashbang and Owl Spirit simply because it's a passive skill, which means it's always on despite how little it may help you.

Flashbang is prioritized before Owl Spirit simply because it requires much less SP to max. Flashbang is mostly a bossing skill. It is also our only true ranged skill - just an interesting note, and not a reason you should max it. Random fact/bug: Flashbang (at max) only appears to last 10 seconds instead of the mentioned 20 in the skill description.

Owl Spirit is probably the most useless skill you get in third job+. Its use is extremely limited. It's prominently used for its 1HKO ability, on a straggling single non-boss target, rather than its damage boost. The number of attacks it boosts still goes down even if you attack empty space.

It doesn't matter what you do with the extra points, as they would go in either Nimble Body or Fatal Blow (or Disorder?), all fairly useless skills.

Skill (Build) Representation Videos (Outdated):

Lv. 110 Blade Lord at Galloperas (Pre-Big Bang)
by Cyanne

The Hurdler/Rusher (FA + TS)

Lv. 73 Blade Lord at Galloperas (Pre-Big Bang)
by Cyanne

The Pendulum (FA + BS)[/INDENT]


[urlname="ChaosBladeMaster"][/urlname]IV. BLADE MASTER (Lv. 120+):


[INDENT]1 point in every (new) skill
Max (30) Thorns
Max (10) Sharpness
Max (30) Final Cut (FC)

Notes:

This build focuses on efficiency and versatility. (This build delays maxing Blade Fury in favour of higher damage boosting skills like Sharpness and Final Cut, which affect all of your other skills as well. Before maxing Blade Fury, you will mostly be spamming Upper Stab while training at places like LHC. Spamming 1 Blade Fury technically very marginally out-DPSes spamming Upper Stab (by an overall 2%), but is limited to a much lower mob count. You could use Blade Fury on its max mob count and lower (3-2, if Fury is at level 1) and Upper Stab on anything higher than Blade Fury's mob count.

Another note: Blade Fury doesn't match Upper Stab's DPS on 6+ targets until level 25, a major factor being that it doesn't gain the ability to hit 6 targets, until max.)

There is never a reason not to put at least 1 point into new skills early on. Phantom Blow even at level 1 becomes your main 1v1 attack.

Thorns provides an inferior and small damage boost compared to Sharpness and Final Cut, but it also holds utility for its stance effect. The amount of overall damage increase Thorns gives depends on your total weapon attack. The more total weapon attack you have, the less of an overall damage boost it is, and vice versa. Thorns' attack buff stacks with other attack buffs. Although I recommend this skill first, some people may prefer more direct damage earlier and give it a lower priority than either of the other two skills.

Sharpness and Final Cut both offer fairly large boosts to your damage. Sharpness is preferred earlier simply because it's a passive skill, and Sharp Eyes stacking boosts it even more. Note: The critical rate does indeed stack as well, now.

Final Cut maxed is actually 1.7x instead of 1.4x.

(Safe and efficient Final Cut usage tips:
  • Using the i-frames you get when you grab at empty space using Chains (using the chain pull, but not the attack).
  • Using it right after a successful CoH attack, which neglects Final Cut's rushing capability on the single target (more so, boss) that you used CoH on. This actually doesn't work anymore, because all attacks after Chains can now KB. Before Chaos, using Chains meant you wouldn't be able to KB the target during Chains's "stun-KB", with the exception of using attacks that KB multiple times. This is probably a side-effect of how we no longer alternate between dagger and katara hits.
  • Using Final Cut at some other bosses, especially fat stationary ones, involves using Dark Sight on top of the boss and FC'ing out.
Final Cut is less risky than ever, but I still wanted to leave this here, anyway.)

Blade Fury and Phantom Blow are the next set of skills that I would consider to max. Blade Fury has been delayed until now because both Sharpness and Final Cut offer a larger boost to your damage, not to mention they also affect all of your other skills. To a lesser extent, another thing to consider about Blade Fury is its range. Relative to Upper Stab, Blade Fury sacrifices front horizontal range in exchange for greater vertical and back horizontal range. Blade Fury has somewhat poor synergy with the rest of your DB skills as a result of this, although that isn't important if you're spamming the skill anyway. A somewhat disadvantageous scenario as a result of this is training at Bearwolves, where you can out-range their attacks on the edge of the upper platforms. You also tend to take more damage because you're more likely to need to sit on top of whatever you're targeting. A trivial advantage Upper Stab has over Blade Fury is being able to proc Life Drain more often, because it's faster. Blade Fury would be prioritized next if you're going to be training all the time; over Phantom Blow, because you should ideally always be mobbing while training. Phantom Blow is your main bossing/single target attack skill, with lots of front horizontal range.

Maple Warrior (MW) helps in solo situations. There's almost always someone with MW in party situations, especially the classes with more useless skills.

Mirrored Target (MT) actually does give passive avoid (and passive defense), although it is "unnoticeable" and is not worth allocating points into until much later. Even so, putting points in the skill would be more for the (inferior) puppet effect, on (poorly designed, gimmicky, and notoriously boring) world tour bosses, and ToT mini-bosses. Our puppet isn't so optimal because we're a close range class, and also because we have to recast Mirror Image after using it. Its puppet effect is sort of more effective after Chaos, because of how Thorns now gives stance. You can effectively use MT like how an archer uses their puppet at Pap now (not Dojo Pap because of the lack of a top platform - Pap can still dispel and stun), to prevent it from ever doing anything. MT's passive avoid effect apparently works as a multiplier of your (hidden) avoid rate, so a 30% avoid rate would become 37.5% with max MT (clarification by JoeTang). This skill could be bumped up in priority, more specifically above MW, if you tend to solo Grandpa (aka "The Boss") and/or his bodyguards often.

Monster Bomb is a horrible skill to allocate any or more than a single point into (for the lulz/variety). Its targeting is wonky, it's not affected by Final Cut and Mirror Image, it's weak, and it's overall a very gimmicky and useless skill. It also actually cannot damage other nearby players.

Venom is extremely weak and blatantly sucks, although you could put 1 point into this skill early on. It's a last priority or next-to-last priority skill.

Simple Explanation: Skill Priority

Thorns: Unplaceable (High, Medium, or somewhere in between)
Sharpness: High
Final Cut: High
Blade Fury: Medium/High
Phantom Blow: Medium/High
Mirrored Target: Low
Maple Warrior: Low/Medium
Monster Bomb: Last/Rejected
Venom: Last
Hero's Will: Low/Last

Skill (Build) Representation Videos (Chaos):

Lv. 159 Blade Master vs. Pap (Chaos)
by myself

Skill (Build) Representation Videos (Outdated):

Lv. 159 Blade Master vs. Bodyguards/"The Boss" (Big Bang)
by mapleteiri of YouTube

Lv. 155 Blade Master vs. Pap (Big Bang)
by myself

Lv. 139 Blade Master at Skelegons (Pre-Big Bang)
by Cyanne

She shows a different way of using Final Cut, in which you take advantage of invincibility after getting hit (which doesn't work after Big Bang due to the way magic and touch damage have separate invincibility times?), and how you can auto-pot during Final Cut's charging duration.

Lv. 150 Blade Master at Oblivion 4 (Pre-Big Bang)
by Cyanne

Lv. 172 Blade Master at Ninja Castle and Castellan (Pre-Big Bang)
by Cyanne

Did someone say i-frames?

Lv. 159 Blade Master vs. Royal Guard (Pre-Big Bang)
by Cyanne

This video demonstrates Mirrored Target's primary purpose. RGTS has been nerfed to redundancy post-Big Bang though.

 Screenshots of Mirrored Target Uses (Pre-Big Bang)
[urlname="MathematicalAnalysis"][/urlname]DAMAGE/MATHEMATICAL ANALYSIS:

30 SP
ThornsAttackBoost / TotalWeaponAttack
Note: The more total weapon attack you have, the less of an overall damage boost Thorns is, and vice versa.
30w.atk / x = 12% if x = 250

10 SP
SharpnessDamage / NormalCriticalDamage
Damage = AverageCriticalDamage * CriticalChance
((((0.2 + 0.2 + 0.5) / 2) * (0.05 + 0.25)) + 1) / (((0.2 + 0.5) / 2) * 0.05 + 1) = 11.55%

10 SP
SharpnessDamageWithSharpEyes / CriticalDamageWithSharpEyes
Damage = AverageCriticalDamage * CriticalChance
Note: Sharpness and Sharp Eyes critical rate stacks now.
((((0.2 + 0.2 + 0.5 + 0.3) / 2) * (0.05 + 0.25 + 0.2)) + 1) / (((0.2 + 0.5 + 0.3) / 2) * (0.05 + 0.2) + 1) = 15.56%

30 SP
FinalCutDamageBoost * FinalCutDuration / FinalCutCooldown
Note: This assumes you use Final Cut as soon as it's off cooldown. Excludes the actual Final Cut attack.
0.7 * 40 / 90 = 31.11% (Legend)
(1.7 * (0.7 * 1.7 + 1) / 1.7 - 1) * 40 / 90 = 52.89% (Chaos)

30 SP
(BladeFuryDamage / BladeFuryTime) / (UpperStabDamage / UpperStabTime)
(165% * 3 / 600ms) / (240% / 360ms) = 23.75%

1 SP
(RankOneBladeFuryDamage / BladeFuryTime) / (UpperStabDamage / UpperStabTime)
Note: Level 1 Blade Fury can only hit up to 3 targets
(136% * 3 / 600ms) / (240% / 360ms) = 2%

1 SP
(RankOnePhantomBlowDamage / PhantomBlowTime) / (UpperStabDamage / UpperStabTime)
(76% * 6 / 600ms) / (240% / 360ms) = 14% and Ignore 6% PDR

30 SP
(PhantomBlowDamage / PhantomBlowTime) / (UpperStabDamage / UpperStabTime)
(105% * 6 / 600ms) / (240% / 360ms) = 57.5% and Ignore 20% PDR

29 SP
PhantomBlowDamage / RankOnePhantomBlowDamage
105% / 76% = 38.16% and Ignore 3.33* the PDR

Etc.

Quote:Is going out of your way to cast (A)DS worth it in conjunction with Phantom Blow? (Example)

Phantom Blow DPS = 105% * 6 / 0.60s = 1050%/s

(A)DS + PB DPS = 105% * 6 * 1.1 / (0.12s + 0.60s) = 962.5%/s

(A)DS + PB*2 DPS = (105% * 6 * 1.1 + 105% * 6 * (0.1 * 0.49 + 1)) / (0.12s + 0.60s * 2) = 1025.66%/s

Conclusion: It's never worth it.
  • In reality, Dark Sight's internet latency issues make going out of your way to cast ADS even worse.
  • Dark Sight is recast at the beginning of every skill cycle even if you still remain in Dark Sight at the end of any skill cycle. Manually executing Dark Sight every time it wears off is practically impossible because of Phantom Blow's speed. You won't notice if you're in/out of Dark Sight fast enough. Note that (A)DS + PB*x can also mean an (A)DS + PB macro while manually executing any extra PBs.
  • I didn't take into account the "Dark Sight Trigger Chance: 20%", which only procs when getting hit.
  • Spamming PB also has other advantages like constant KB.
  • The damage relation between ADS + Blade Fury and spamming Blade Fury is also the same, because both skills are the same speed. ADS benefits (or rather, less worsens), slower skills more and vice versa.
[/INDENT]

[urlname=ChaosSkillMacros][/urlname]SKILL MACROS:

There are a few in-game skill macros that simplify and make your gameplay a lot smoother. They mostly solve a bigger problem than just "shortage of hotkey slots" (which should be avoided).


[INDENT]Flying Assaulter (on its own macro) - As I said, putting FA on its own skill macro makes it immensely easier to use and combo; it makes FA's minimum height requirement a lot less annoying.

Chains of Hell (on its own macro) - CoH usage becomes a lot smoother with this macro, including the ability to do consecutive CoH's. You won't be able to jump-Chains-pull, but no one does that anyway.[/INDENT]
Reply
#6
GUIDE CHANGES:

v3.1: December 10, 2011
  • Removed MI and FC "glitches" (Legend update)
v3: July 6, 2011
  • Added a Chaos skill build
v2: April 25, 2011
  • Continuing Zelkova's thread, but I wanted TS powers, among other things
  • Formatting changes
  • Third job and third job+ skill build changes
  • A general much more in-depth look
  • Clarifications
v1: December 16, 2010 Do not reproduce this guide anywhere else, other than linking it.

COMMENTS/CRITICISMS/SUGGESTIONS HIGHLIGHTS:

JoeTang Wrote:If you have thousands of avoid, you have at least a 25% avoid rate on monsters your level (Big Bang).

It (Mirrored Target) gives a passive dodge multiplier like Evasion Boost does. You won't see it in your stat screen. If you have 30% chance to dodge with your current Avoid stat, then you have 37.5% total chance to dodge with maxed Mirrored Target.
Feel free to post whatever questions/concerns/suggestions/comments/critisisms you may have.

OTHER USEFUL THREADS:

(Pre-Big Bang) Dual Blade SP Guide by Cyanne
(Pre-Big Bang) Dual Blade Mechanics by JoeTang

----------------------------------

I added a Chaos skill build for those interested. I think it's the most efficient and versatile build, and I would definitely like other thoughts/suggestions on it.

Things mostly stay the same pre-fourth job except for the addition of new skills in third job+. Third job also changes if you count the 1 point in Upper Stab as a change.
Reply
#7
Your chaos 4th job is terrible advice, since final cut has nerfed to hell and no longer gives passive bonuses to the other attacks.

The most efficient skill build for chaos training for 4th job is as follows.
120
1 blade fury 1 sharpness 1 venom
I know you said venom sucks, but still, you're not going to be one shotting monsters at LHC anyway. It'll give a tiny increase to your overall damage output even at level 1, and that makes it worth it.
Then max sharpness, then max blade fury,then max thorns.

Sharpness is basically old thorns, but passive, and at max it gives the following bonus.
Level 10: Crit Rate: +25%, Minimum Crit Damage: +20%

So you're basically sitting at 30% crit rate, 40% if you have a critical ring.
On average, 1/3 of the hits from blade fury will crit.
And then you max blade fury, because its your main mobbing skill in fourth job, and it does damn good damage.
Level 30: MP Cost: 65, Damage: 165%, Number of Attacks: 3, Max Enemies Hit: 6

With maxed mirror image, that's 994.5% damage per cast for one monster, and its delay is comparable to what upperstab used to be.
Then you max thorns, which gives you maximum benefit due to its +30attack bonus that stacks with other attack potions AS WELL AS its 90% knockback resistance.
This is huge.
Not getting tossed around the map as you attack is amazingly good for training, plus if you're in a party with a bishop who uses bless, since bless stacks with other buffs now, you've got 30+15=45 extra attack that you can stack with any other attack buff used on you, OR attack potion that you use.
After that its really down to personal preference, I believe, but those are the three core skills that definitely need to be maxed early on after chaos.
Reply
#8
In first job, it's best to not use double strike (or whatever), because it's essentially the same as when you use your normal attack with a blade+dagger. Attacking is moderately slow until you get a blade, but the 20 SP is better spent on Nimble Body + Dark Sight rather than on attacks you'll never use again.
EDIT: It also leaves more SP for Fatal Blow, which isn't so useless.
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#9
Okay... I'm confused how Slash Storm out-DPSes Bloody Storm, since Bloody Storm is just an upgrade to Slash Storm. O_o

Edit : Except a little slower. :X Bloody Storm hits 8 mobs, though. o.o
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#10
Both Final Cut and Blade Fury (in relation to Upper Stab) offer about a 23% increase in damage, except Final Cut affects all of your other skills as well. Actually doesn't max FC give a 35.71% boost in damage (disregarding the time and damage of the actual FC attack)? (And Blade Fury 23.75%) (And Sharpness 11.55%) (And Thorns 12% if you have 250 total w.atk)

I already posted in the other Chaos build thread about the strength of Slash Storm, and I think a post by JoeTang a long time ago "confirmed" it. Rolleyes

Edit: http://www.southperry.net/showthread.php?t=34932
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#11
ShadyPriest Wrote:Both Final Cut and Blade Fury (in relation to Upper Stab) offer about a 23% increase in damage, except Final Cut affects all of your other skills as well.

I already posted in the other Chaos build thread about the strength of Slash Storm, and I think a post by JoeTang a long time ago "confirmed" it. Rolleyes

But wait a minute - Isn't Blad Fury a spammable mobbing skill and Final Cut a charge-required skill with a cool down? o.o
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#12
I'm not sure what you mean. Final Cut is a buff (Damage Increase: 140% for 40 sec and stacking Mirror Image; Cooldown: 90 sec) more than it is an attack. To elaborate on the Mirror Image part, Final Cut makes your Mirror Image hits do 1.19x (without counting how total and boss damage % affect Mirror Image) instead of 0.7x.
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#13
o.o
Slash Storm:
MP Cost: 24, Damage: 190% x2 on up to 6 enemies.
600ms Delay @ Normal 6.
460ms Delay @ Faster 2.
13 Casts a minute * 190% = 2470% x 2 = 4940%

Bloody Storm:
MP Cost: 50, Damage: 225%, Number of Attacks: 2, Max Enemies Hit: 8
870ms delay @ Normal 6
660ms delay @ Faster 2
9 casts a minute * 225% = 2025% x 2 = 4050% a minute.

This is assuming that Slash Storm is under level 11 cause the delay gets slower or some sh`it so I don't know the value for it.
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#14
Level 1 Bloody Storm has gigantic range and the delay is offset by the spam delay for both skills, which I believe is the same, or similar. You can't actually DPS with Slash Storm or Bloody Storm since it moves you, and has horrible spam delay. The point I was making earlier was under the assumption the delays were noticeable and turning and reattacking was efficient. The delays actually aren't very significant in the style Dual Blade plays. Your goal is to XHKO monsters, and having more damage from Bloody Storm allows this. If say you already OHKO with Slash Storm, then yes, hold off adding points into Bloody Storm until you have 4 or 8 saved up to hit 7/8 monsters. Flying Assaulter + Bloody Storm does more damage than with Tornado Spin, so that chain can lead to OHKO more easily, though Mirror Image + Tornado Spin would be a bigger actual damage increase than immediate Bloody Storm. Bloody Storm is only 10 points though.

Chains of Hell is a terrible skill and completely useless without Advanced Dark Sight maxed.
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#15
JoeTang Wrote:Chains of Hell is a terrible skill and completely useless without Advanced Dark Sight maxed.

Actually, mind elaborating (mostly the latter part)?

An Upper Stab + Slash Storm macro would theoretically give the highest DPS for a long time against mobs, against a wall - most practical application.
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#16
Double post.
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#17
MuscleWizard pretty much summed up my thoughts of the Chaos build. I wouldn't recommend Thorns+FC first build for anyone. A single point in Thorns gives 32% stance, which is great for just one SP and it should be enough until you are done with Blade Fury.

I also would recommend 1 point into Mirrored Target early for the dodge, and maxing it later in stead of MW. In training parties, everyone and their mom has MW of some sort so adding points into soloing purposes isn't that important IMO. Aside of just the dodge, MT gives a big big boost in both defenses, and the Puppet feature is handy for doing bosses like BGA.
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#18
I tried training after chaos patch with maxed thorns and final cut.
It was annoying as hell. You also want maxed blade fury because it hits 6 monsters at max, I believe.

The old method of training (Spamming Upper Stab) was nerfed to hell.
Plus, you neglected to mention that final cut is only up about half the time.
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#19
Just a more precise look at several numbers I have specified, to counter any (lingering) doubts, and to further support my build/guide. Smile

Also added a lot more clarifications.

Damage/Mathematical Analysis of 4th Job DB Skills (at max):

30 SP
Thorns Attack Boost/Total Weapon Attack
Note: The more total weapon attack you have, the less of an overall damage boost Thorns is, and vice versa.
30w.atk/x = 12% if x=250

10 SP
Sharpness Damage without Sharp Eyes/Normal Critical Damage, without Sharpness and Sharp Eyes
Damage = Average Critical Damage * Critical Chance
((((0.2+0.2)x+0.5x)/2(0.05+0.25))+1x)/(((0.2x+0.5x)/2*0.05)+1x) = 11.55%

10 SP
Sharpness Damage with Sharp Eyes/Critical Damage without Sharpness, but with Sharp Eyes
Damage = Average Critical Damage * Critical Chance)
Note: The critical rate does indeed stack as well, now.
((((0.2+0.2)x+(0.5+0.3)x)/2(0.05+0.25+0.2))+1x)/(((0.2x+(0.5+0.3)x)/2(0.05+0.2)+1x) = 15.56%

30 SP
Final Cut Damage with MI/Normal Damage with MI*(Final Cut Duration-Attack Time)/(Cooldown+Attack Charge Time)
Note: This assumes you use Final Cut as soon as it's off cooldown. Taking into account the time of the actual Final Cut attack, and assuming the damage as "normal" damage. The damage boost from the actual Final Cut attack varies.
((1.4x(1+1.7(0.7))/1.7)-1x)(40-0.72)/(90+1) = 34.68%

30 SP
(Blade Fury Damage/Time)/(Upper Stab Damage/Time)
(165*3%/600ms)/(240%/360ms) = 23.75%

Etc.

Quote:Is going out of your way to cast (A)DS worth it in conjunction with Phantom Blow?

Phantom Blow DPS with MI = 105%*6*1.7/0.60s = 1785%/s

(A)DS + PB macro DPS with MI = 105%*6*1.1*1.77/(0.12s+0.60s) = 1703.625%/s

(A)DS + PB*2 macro DPS with MI = (105%*6*1.1*1.77+105%*6*1.7*(((1.1*1.77/1.7-1)*0.49)+1))/(0.12s+0.60s*2) = 1798.38%/s

An (A)DS + PB macro would always be inferior to damage in comparison to just spamming PB.

An (A)DS + PB*2 macro, to take advantage of the 49% chance to stay in Dark Sight, would be overall 0.75% stronger than just spamming PB.

Notes:
  • I wouldn't, and wouldn't recommend you as well, to go out of your way to take advantage of ADS because of Dark Sight's internet latency issues anyway; AKA the vast number of, if not all people will not be able to consistently pull off Dark Sight at its fastest 120 ms.
  • Using macros because manually executing Dark Sight every time it wears off is practically impossible. Dark Sight is recast at the beginning of every macro cycle even if you still remain in Dark Sight at the end of any macro cycle.
  • ADS also makes your Mirror Image hits do 0.77x (0.7*(1+0.1)=0.77) instead of 0.7x, when the 10% damage bonus is applied.
  • I didn't take into account the "Dark Sight Trigger Chance: 20%", which only procs when getting hit. It should work in spamming PB's favour.
  • Spamming PB also has other advantages like constant KB.
  • The damage relation between ADS+Blade Fury and spamming Blade Fury is also the same, because both skills are the same speed. ADS benefits slower skills more and vice versa, but that would bring me back to my first point, and that it's insignificant.
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