Foreign Asian students cheat like mad on college apps

Does it really matter? Once they get in, if they're not up to par, they're just wasting their money.

oh please students nowadays have shading ways of getting that A, with the most famous one being buying the essays

Does it really matter? Once they get in, if they're not up to par, they're just wasting their money.

There's ways to get around that (not that I know of, though)

All the people resenting the Asian over-representation in higher ed might also be interested in this article: http://nymag.com/news/features/asian-americans-2011-5/

While I'm not saying there is any excuse for foreign students cheating their way into school, I do think the issue of Asian Americans in higher ed is much more complicated and there's no way you can lump foreign Asians in with Asian American students.

The extent to which entrance requirements don't reflect undergraduate success is the margin in which cheating in your application is a good idea.

It keeps getting wider.

All the people resenting the Asian over-representation in higher ed might also be interested in this article: http://nymag.com/news/features/asian-americans-2011-5/

While I'm not saying there is any excuse for foreign students cheating their way into school, I do think the issue of Asian Americans in higher ed is much more complicated and there's no way you can lump foreign Asians in with Asian American students.

Wow that was a great read

Should be expected when you place the kind of ridiculous pressure on your students that Asian countries tend to.

California universities from what I heard accept foreigners more than locals.

iirc think it's because people from California get to pay less for their tuition.

iirc think it's because people from California get to pay less for their tuition.

Lol? I'm pretty sure the UC system is just as much in Cali as it would be in any other state.

Lol? I'm pretty sure the UC system is just as much in Cali as it would be in any other state.

I think he's referring to the community colleges in california which are essentially free

All the people resenting the Asian over-representation in higher ed might also be interested in this article: http://nymag.com/news/features/asian-americans-2011-5/

While I'm not saying there is any excuse for foreign students cheating their way into school, I do think the issue of Asian Americans in higher ed is much more complicated and there's no way you can lump foreign Asians in with Asian American students.

Even though I've seen this article a few months back, still a great read. Lots of great perspectives.

The extent to which entrance requirements don't reflect undergraduate success is the margin in which cheating in your application is a good idea.

It keeps getting wider.

Mind elaborating? I'm curious to see what you mean by that.

iirc think it's because people from California get to pay less for their tuition.

Lol? I'm pretty sure the UC system is just as much in Cali as it would be in any other state.

IIRC in-state UC students pay almost $30,000 for tuition + housing. Out of state students have to pay up to $50,000. (I know someone who's attending a UC as an out-of-state student and has to pony up that much money )

I think he's referring to the community colleges in california which are essentially free

Well....way cheaper. Maybe pay a few thousand per year max, iirc. But don't forget the problem of overcrowding, which is a major issue in California's community colleges atm.

Mind elaborating? I'm curious to see what you mean by that.

Admissions offices at good schools say it every year: most of our applicants are qualified, but we can't admit that many. Aside from cheating=immoral, the reason why you shouldn't cheat on your admissions is that being admitted is supposed to reflect your fitness for the academic program. If you're a lousy student and cheat your way into Harvard, presumably you'll fail out anyway. But to the extent succeeding at admissions is not the same as succeeding at the academic program, that's not a concern. There are more qualified students each year, but the best schools in the country largely aren't expanding their class sizes, certainly not at the same pace.

It's actually a very weird inversion: the best schools make every effort to keep everyone in, to have a really high retention rate. So even when admissions screws up and admits people who actually aren't able to do the work, they'll make sure those kids get through. A lot of state schools are exactly the opposite, their good programs are designed to push out the bad candidates and retain only the good ones, starting class size could be twice as big as the eventual graduating class.

So I'm saying part of the incentive to cheat has arisen because of the magnitude that the admissions process has detached from selecting the most fit applicants - and it continues to get worse. If you're amoral, you basically should be cheating your way into the best school you can successfully graduate from.

Admissions offices at good schools say it every year: most of our applicants are qualified, but we can't admit that many. Aside from cheating=immoral, the reason why you shouldn't cheat on your admissions is that being admitted is supposed to reflect your fitness for the academic program. If you're a lousy student and cheat your way into Harvard, presumably you'll fail out anyway. But to the extent succeeding at admissions is not the same as succeeding at the academic program, that's not a concern. There are more qualified students each year, but the best schools in the country largely aren't expanding their class sizes, certainly not at the same pace.

It's actually a very weird inversion: the best schools make every effort to keep everyone in, to have a really high retention rate. So even when admissions screws up and admits people who actually aren't able to do the work, they'll make sure those kids get through. A lot of state schools are exactly the opposite, their good programs are designed to push out the bad candidates and retain only the good ones, starting class size could be twice as big as the eventual graduating class.

So I'm saying part of the incentive to cheat has arisen because of the magnitude that the admissions process has detached from selecting the most fit applicants - and it continues to get worse. If you're amoral, you basically should be cheating your way into the best school you can successfully graduate from.

Interesting. I see the reasoning behind what you mean now. Thanks for the clarification.

Just to add an observation. When we had a conference on our campus a while back (Central RAP, for RAs and such), ULCA's people were 95% Asian. I think there was like only 1 white guy there.

As for my campus in general, I know there is a large Philippine population that attends, but that number is low when accounting for people in housing (meaning not many most of them live near by). MY campus is also pretty small, with about 4000 students.