Evan DPM

I was looking at parses on a different forum of Evan vs I/L at lvl 160.
The Evan was doing fairly similar damage, can anyone confirm if this is
correct? Figured id ask here because this is like the best forum for Evan
info rofl.

So all you Evan fan boys, are Evans doing Legend Damage, or are they just a glorified mage with some prettier spells?

They're a lot stronger than regular mages with SE (and still a bit stronger without) but fall behind other classes due to the magic damage formula. Magical Resistance still makes them more useful than any Arch Mage though.

There goes my hopes of magic actually doing some damage for once

They're a lot stronger than regular mages with SE (and still a bit stronger without) but fall behind other classes due to the magic damage formula. Magical Resistance still makes them more useful than any Arch Mage though.

What's exactly is this Formula?

Ya I was kinda curious about that too, what formula?

Spell Damage:
MAX = ((Magic²/1000 + Magic)/30 + INT/200) * Spell Attack
MIN = ((Magic²/1000 + Magic * Mastery * 0.9)/30 + INT/200) * Spell Attack

From: http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=855


This is why things like Onyx Apples barely improve Magic damage, but causes Physical damage to skyrocket. Other classes have weapon attack as a multiplier.


Evans will do comparable damage to other classes without Onyx Apples. But in all practical boss runs, Onyx Apples are used so their damage falls behind. I can do DPS calculations after work if you're interested.

Well, I tipped my hand in the third Legendary Class thread that I was approaching clear and conclusive evidence that Evans not only have a negligibly higher amount of DPS/DPM but that they may actually have a lower DPS than their A/M more specifically F/P counterparts. I had pondered making the exact same thread to disseminate my findings but was waiting for a dedicated Evan forum to do so, however you made the thread and requested the information so Evan-lovers everywhere, get ready to rip apart my work to prove me wrong, please, I really hope I'm wrong somewhere here.

I'll start off by using Russt's calculations for the Magical DPS as posted in a different thread.

Paralyze: 240 BA, 0.8 sec, S element (1.25x)
Chain Lightning: 210 BA, 0.78 sec, L element (1.25x)
AM Amp: 1.50x damage
60% mastery (1.54x weighted modifier, or 'W')

Blaze: 330 BA, 1.32 sec, F element (1.25x)
Illusion: 520 BA, 2.01 sec, no element
Critical Magic: 30% chance of 1.5x damage (1.15x)
Evan Amp: 1.35x damage
Dragon Fury: 1.1x damage
Magic Mastery: 90% mastery (1.81x weighted modifier, or 'W')

Magic DPS formula, with constant factors removed: (W + M*0.002) * BA / time * modifiers

Paralyze: (1.54 + M*0.002) * 240 / 0.8 * 1.25 * 1.5 = 866.25 + 1.125M
Chain Lightning: (1.54 + M*0.002) * 210 / 0.78 * 1.25 * 1.5 = 757.97 + 0.984M

Blaze: (1.81 + M*0.002) * 330 / 1.32 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.35 * 1.1 = 965.95 + 1.067M
Illusion: (1.81 + M*0.002) * 520 / 2.01 * 1.15 * 1.35 * 1.1 = 799.67 + 0.884M

In general: Blaze >~ Paralyze > Chain Lightning >~ Illusion
However, this shifts slightly when magic attack is changed. In particular, Paralyze becomes stronger than Blaze if M is greater than approximately 1720, and Chain Lightning becomes stronger than Blaze if M is greater than approximately 2510. Illusion becomes stronger than Chain Lightning if M is less than approximately 420.

Also note that the +35 magic attack from Evan passives is not taken into account. This could produce a 3-6% difference for the Evan's advantage.

I'll adjust the speeds in the calculations for Boostered values, keep in mind that I don't actually have actual data for Evan's level 3 Booster so I will have to estimate those values, however suffice it to say the values will be a little bit on the generous (faster) side. I used the I/L's TS (at base speed 1.32) for Blaze and the F/P's Slow (8) Explosion (at base speed 1.92) for Illusion for basic trending on how the Evan's skills at similar base speed might be Boostered. As you can see, here is an opportunity for my argument to fall apart, if anyone has actual speed data for these Evan skills I'd greatly appreciate it.

Paralyze: (1.54 + M*0.002) * 240 / 0.72 * 1.25 * 1.5 = 962.5 + 1.25M
Chain Lightning: (1.54 + M*0.002) * 210 / 0.69 * 1.25 * 1.5 = 878.80 + 1.141M

Blaze: (1.81 + M*0.002) * 330 / 1.05 * 1.25 * 1.15 * 1.35 * 1.1 = 1214.33 + 1.342M
Illusion: (1.81 + M*0.002) * 520 / 1.74 * 1.15 * 1.35 * 1.1 = 923.76 + 1.021M

So with these hypothetically optimistic values for speed both Blaze and Illusion don't look as bad as they did against their A/M counterparts in fact Blaze looks much stronger and under the proper conditions Illusion can take on a Paralyze. Critical Magic dictates a 1.15 multiplier on Blaze because for all intensive purposes, it is a one-hit skill, however Illusion is a four-hit skill so some reason in the back of my head I feel that the multiplier should be more, but that's beside the point and just an idea I wanted to float.

But what I am sure everyone was actually waiting for was the A/M equalizer, these numbers certainly don't support the insanity about Evan DPM being negligibly higher compared to A/M, so what is it?

SUMMONS!

I have never seen these included in any calculations or mentioned anywhere else in the many comparisons we have floating around these forums, if I missed you, I'll credit you, but lets get down to business.

Elquines: (1.54 + M*0.002) * 270 / 2.50 * 1.5 = 249.48 + 0.324M
Ifrit: (1.54 + M*0.002) * 330 / 2.50 * 1.5 = 304.92 + 0.396M

As you can tell by the numbers, I used a 2.5 second attack speed based upon experimental data I collected, however I observed that the duration between attacks can go as high as 3-ish seconds so you have some uncertainty there, but since I hypothesized the Evan's level 3 booster optimistically I did the same for the attack speeds of the summons. And now...the results.

F/P AM (962.5 + 1.25M) + (249.48 + 0.324M) = 1211.98 + 1.574M
I/L AM (878.80 + 1.141M) + (304.92 + 0.396M) = 1183.72 + 1.537M

Blaze: 1214.33 + 1.342M
Illusion: 923.76 + 1.021M

Mind blowing right? While all of my calculation should be correct, in reality all of them should have some sort of +/- given the liberties I had with estimating various values for attack speed. So, here it is, some numbers. I humbly ask that you go through these values, scrutinize them, poke holes in my ideas, fault my methods, find your own numbers, perform your own calculations, do anything to prove me wrong because I desperately want to be incorrect.

While I am happy that I mathed this out and I discovered something that changes notions about the relationship between Evan and A/M, I cannot help but fall into a bit of a gloom given this data. I am a magicphilic individual, I will continue to play mages, but in recent months I also became a huge fan of the Evan and to see my hopes crushed with my own data is difficult to say the least. On the positive front, my I/L isn't as far back compared to F/P as I initially thought. But one thing is clear, with AMs having exponentially better training and similar if not better single-target damage only one conclusion can be drawn...Evans need rebalancing.

Credits: The Attack Speed Reference found here at SP
Russt's calculations and equations taken from a post here

I kinda skimmed through your whole thing, but Russt forgot to account the fact Evan's booster is -3, not -2, in that post.

Ooh. Yes it would, I neglected to think of that. The result of this is that Blaze is always stronger than Paralyze (assuming same stats). Plugging in 1000 magic for each (nice round number to work with), Blaze comes out to be about 10% stronger.

Yes I am an Evan lover too~~~.

I kinda skimmed through your whole thing, but Russt forgot to account the fact Evan's booster is -3, not -2, in that post.

I addressed this in the first set of calculation after the quote, albeit haphazardly and with a bit of estimation.

Oh, crap, missed it.

Well, I reread pretty (well, relatively) deeply your calculations. Unfortunately, I'm not Russt (where is he?) or any of those number dudes around here, but I can point out some factors to help boost the case for Evan.

-Well, obviously you counted the -3 booster.
-Critical Magic. Seems like you accounted for this too.
-35 Passive Magic Attack for Evans. Didn't look like you included this, but this would slightly help the Evan case. The only thing AMs have competing is Meditation, but it's pretty negligible.
-The vast amount of types Evan have. Fire, Ice, and Lightning, Dark (lol), and that seems like it should hit most monsters for Super Effective Damage. If some monster resists all of these, well, you have Elemental Reset. Archmages don't.
-Dragon Equips. Unscrolled, but leveled up to the max, you can have an additional 18 LUK and INT, along with 12 extra slots. Arch Mages do not get this. You can also throw in some speed.
-Unfortunately, I do have to add the fact that Archmages do have a 5% stronger Amplification, albeit with a 20% more MP cost.
-However, that can be negated by Dragon Fury, which gives an extra 10% damage to the Evan when the MP is between 50 and 80%. Easily remedied by pets.
-Last is Onix's Blessing. Gives an extra 50 magic attack.

Why would you compare an evan to an I/L at level 160, when evan JUST gets his strongest skills at level 160?

-35 Passive Magic Attack for Evans. Didn't look like you included this, but this would slightly help the Evan case. The only thing AMs have competing is Meditation, but it's pretty negligible.
-Dragon Equips. Unscrolled, but leveled up to the max, you can have an additional 18 LUK and INT, along with 12 extra slots. Arch Mages do not get this. You can also throw in some speed.
-Last is Onix's Blessing. Gives an extra 50 magic attack.

These can all be negated with an analysis of my results which I failed to do before presenting a conclusion:

An F/P AM with Paralyze 30, Elquines 30 with comparable stats will be stronger than an Evan using Blaze with 11 M.ATT. If you add in any of those in any combination, I don't think you would get more than 150 M.ATT even with godly scrolling, this would lead to an Evan being stronger until the F/P can achieve 878 M.ATT. This value is easily achievable especially at the level at which we are comparing, the Evan and therefore the F/P must be at 180 for the skills we are comparing and at 180, INT alone gives 900 M.ATT.

-The vast amount of types Evan have. Fire, Ice, and Lightning, Dark (lol), and that seems like it should hit most monsters for Super Effective Damage. If some monster resists all of these, well, you have Elemental Reset. Archmages don't.

I'm only demonstrating the Evan's inadequacies in terms of single target DPS where only Illusion and Blaze would be of any use and if current boss run don't include mages aside from friend runs, they surely will not be including someone who is weaker.

-Unfortunately, I do have to add the fact that Archmages do have a 5% stronger Amplification, albeit with a 20% more MP cost.

These numbers are working with the changed or "balanced" 150% damage Amplification brought in a recent KMS patch making AM's Amplification 15% stronger.

-However, that can be negated by Dragon Fury, which gives an extra 10% damage to the Evan when the MP is between 50 and 80%. Easily remedied by pets.

This has already been included in the calculations as a damage multiplier 1.1.

Why would you compare an evan to an I/L at level 160, when evan JUST gets his strongest skills at level 160?

At 160 it doesn't even matter, unless the AM used some odd BB or Infinity or other odd build they are already stronger as long as their single-target and summon skills are maxed.

Interesting.

I might add, though, that you don't have to estimate, or at least you can estimate more systematically. For -2 booster, you multiply by a factor of 14/16. For -3 booster, you multiply by 13/16. This should be nearly correct in all cases.