Liar Tree Sap 100%

It's true that the saps are intended for "Tree Branch Nose" items, but that's not really the glitch. The glitch dates way back when they put ??? ??? into mushroom shrine gachapon, which was NOT supposed to be there. The "Tree Branch Nose" items were intended for this event and this event only, but Nexon screwed up and added the str version of the nose to the gachapon due to forgetting to highlight and delete the item when copypasting from other versions.

Or did they screw up. It seems people are arguing that sticking Chaos scrolls and Helm INT 60% into the droplist (copy/paste) wasn't a glitch. Two same scenarios, but one is considered a glitch and the other isn't...

as quoted from the other thread: http://www.southperry.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10328

You can't really say it's a glitch because we're all just assuming Nexon wouldn't want them to drop. Maybe they do? We don't know. The event quest items dropping is a quest-related glitch, not so much a drop table one (Though it could be fixed by taking those items out of the drop list as well).

Also I think it's ridiculous to say that by adding one item from gachapon to the regular drop tables, there would be a noticeable decline in gachapon sales. It's not like Chaos Scrolls are the only valuable item in Gachapon, you know. White Scrolls, Chairs, other hard to find/non-dropping scrolls... I doubt one or two monsters dropping Chaos Scrolls at an extremely low rate is going to impact Gachapon at all. If you want a Chaos Scroll, and you have the money, Gachapon is still going to be a lot more likely to get you one, and it'll be faster. If you don't have money, then you wouldn't be buying Gachapon anyway, so you didn't matter.

There are so many parallels of that to this.

They did screw up, and both are glitches. Monster book cards are not supposed to drop before the monster book UI in even released.

Or did they screw up. It seems people are arguing that sticking Chaos scrolls and Helm INT 60% into the droplist (copy/paste) wasn't a glitch. Two same scenarios, but one is considered a glitch and the other isn't...

The permanent Pinocchio noses coming from gachapon IS a glitch because they are programmed to have expiration dates, but the gachapon machine has no method of establishing expiration dates, so it can't do it. They put the wrong item into gachapon. If it were giving out rudolph noses or maple leaves, I don't think anyone would argue that it was a mistake. just because this so happens to look like another real item you're making it into a huge case.

The permanent Pinocchio noses coming from gachapon IS a glitch because they are programmed to have expiration dates, but the gachapon machine has no method of establishing expiration dates, so it can't do it. They put the wrong item into gachapon. If it were giving out rudolph noses or maple leaves, I don't think anyone would argue that it was a mistake. just because this so happens to look like another real item you're making it into a huge case.

Good explanation, lol.

to make it shorter, basically in the data the tree branches are expiring items. however, thats not enough to make them expire. to make an item expire you must also set an expiration date when recieving it, which gachapon cant (doesnt?) do.

The permanent Pinocchio noses coming from gachapon IS a glitch because they are programmed to have expiration dates, but the gachapon machine has no method of establishing expiration dates, so it can't do it. They put the wrong item into gachapon.

The method according to many people that the Tree Branch Noses ended up in Gachapon is copy and paste. Doesn't that mean that other versions either:
1) Don't have expiring noses
2) Their Gachapon are capable of giving expirable items

Then why doesn't ours follow the same pattern?

If it were giving out rudolph noses or maple leaves, I don't think anyone would argue that it was a mistake. just because this so happens to look like another real item you're making it into a huge case.

What if Rudolph Noses or Maple Leaves were never made into an event? Before the event Tree Branch Noses appeared, nobody seemed to call the gacha ones glitched.

Also, how come event items that don't expire and can be given from Gacha aren't considered glitches? For example, Gelt Chocolates and Banana Graham Pies (before they were put into CWKPQ) or Maple Items aren't considered glitches, even though they're "meant for" events?

The method according to many people that the Tree Branch Noses ended up in Gachapon is copy and paste. Doesn't that mean that other versions either:
1) Don't have expiring noses
2) Their Gachapon are capable of giving expirable items

Then why doesn't ours follow the same pattern?
What if Rudolph Noses or Maple Leaves were never made into an event? Before the event Tree Branch Noses appeared, nobody seemed to call the gacha ones glitched.

Also, how come event items that don't expire and can be given from Gacha aren't considered glitches? For example, Gelt Chocolates and Banana Graham Pies (before they were put into CWKPQ) or Maple Items aren't considered glitches, even though they're "meant for" events?

Copy and paste is speculation, no one knows this. For the most part, every version's gachapon is different (Indeed, many versions don't even have gachapon machines in the same towns.) so it's not a valid assumption. No other version has 10 slot pinocchio noses that do not expire, and I can tell you that this is a glitch for a fact because the data supports it.

There are 5 identical-looking branch/pinocchio noses in the data. 4 of them have stats in the form of the following:
info.reqJob 0
info.reqLevel 10
info.reqSTR 0
info.reqDEX 0
info.reqINT 0
info.reqLUK 0
info.incSTR 4
info.timeLimited 1
info.tradeBlock 1
info.tuc 10

The 5th is the conventional one that I and many others have, and that is this:
info.reqJob 0
info.reqLevel 40
info.reqSTR 0
info.reqDEX 0
info.reqINT 0
info.reqLUK 0
info.tuc 7
info.incPDD 2
info.incEVA 1
(This nose is the ONLY ONE that is not time limited. It should be the only one that's permanently available and this is the case in other versions.)

Since there are only these 5 branch noses, that means the one from Gachapon must be one of these. The only one that has stats that match what we see is that which is pictured above. Note that the data for said pinocchio nose HAS TIME LIMITED as part of it. The fact that this nose does not expire is a glitch. There can be no debate on this. It's supposed to expire and it doesn't, that is a glitch. Many people found it odd that these came from gachapon, and indeed some of them called it a glitch, but it remained unchanged. No one could prove it was a glitch in game, which is the kind of proof nexon wants, until now, because now you have the same nose coming from the event that expires and from Gachapon that doesn't expire. You can prove it's the same nose in game by the fact that Liar syrup works on it. Liar Syrup should only work on event noses.

The difference with expiring items is that they are supposed to go away when the event ends. It is the intent of the item's design that it disappears when the time period of the event has come to a close. It was the intent for non-expiring items, such as Maple weapons, that they be around forever. The fact that this Pinocchio nose is intended to have an expiration date, but it does not, means that it is functioning outside its intended abilities, and by any definition, this meets the qualifications to be called a glitch. It is beyond debate.

Thank you Isaac for taking the time to answer my questions.

Anyways, last few:

When the Gachapon noses were released, didn't people extract the data? They would have seen the time-stamp on the ones in the Gachapon, so how come nobody said anything about it? Also, assuming the extractations did occur, how come nobody saw the INT, DEX, and LUK versions? Finally, if ALL the Gachapon noses are glitches, do you think Nexon will eventually delete them all or leave them? (example of leaving them: in MSEA, when Scarlion helmets became improved, many players got to keep their old ones)

so how come nobody said anything about it? Also, assuming the extractations did occur, how come nobody saw the INT, DEX, and LUK versions

Nexon puts a lot of stuff in that's not available ingame, and the item names weren't even in English (thus the ???? ?) I saw the 4 of them when they were added, but I didn't know what they were for.

Nexon puts a lot of stuff in that's not available ingame, and the item names weren't even in English (thus the ???? ?) I saw the 4 of them when they were added, but I didn't know what they were for.

They still show up in extractations nonetheless. I recall extractations in which there were maps named with NoString but you could still see the map image.

So since you said you saw four ???? ?, how come you didn't see the INT, DEX, LUK on them?

I did see the stats they added. STR for one, DEX for the next, and so on. Are you trying to make some kind of point?

I did see the stats they added. STR for one, DEX for the next, and so on.

Ok. What I find interesting is that nobody reported it being released... nobody questioned where to get the other noses, nobody said that the noses were glitched at the time of their release... (if they did, I wasn't aware of it. Is someone wants to point me to where that could be found that'd be great)

Are you trying to make some kind of point?

What point would I make? Don't form conspiracies around me.

Thank you Isaac for taking the time to answer my questions.

Anyways, last few:

When the Gachapon noses were released, didn't people extract the data? They would have seen the time-stamp on the ones in the Gachapon, so how come nobody said anything about it? Also, assuming the extractations did occur, how come nobody saw the INT, DEX, and LUK versions? Finally, if ALL the Gachapon noses are glitches, do you think Nexon will eventually delete them all or leave them? (example of leaving them: in MSEA, when Scarlion helmets became improved, many players got to keep their old ones)

These noses aren't exactly common, I imagine there was an elapsed time between the extraction and when someone noticed it. As for me, I don't usually look at equipments, especially back then; I was more concerned with monsters, quests, whatever could possibly give some clues for NLC. When they were released in Gachapon, I remember there was quite a big to-do about them because they were untranslated. It was pretty obvious they shouldn't have been out yet. Again, at the time there weren't many active K/JMSers to say, "Hey, isn't that supposed to be an event item?" It may have even been added to the data during that awkward stage after Rick disappeared but before Fiel or myself or anyone else had stepped up to fill the void. If that's the case, it's no wonder we didn't catch it. It's also possible that no one made the connection between the nose the came out of Gach and the nose that showed up in the extraction since the one in the extraction was labeled as "time limited" and the ones in game don't show that. That's why I point to the Liar Saps as an important clue, because this is the only way to prove invariably in-game that these two apparently distinct items are one and the same.

As far as what Nexon will do, they'll probably quietly remove it from gachapon and that'll be the end of it. I don't imagine they'll announce about it or anything. I guess the other possibility is that they could make an exchange NPC and, once the event is over, render the permanent gachapon noses unwearable (level 201 requirement or 999 of all stats or something). This would force the people with such noses to go to the exchange NPC and turn in the glitched Nose for a regular level 40 Branch Nose. Don't think it's likely, but it could happen.

These noses aren't exactly common, I imagine there was an elapsed time between the extraction and when someone noticed it. As for me, I don't usually look at equipments, especially back then; I was more concerned with monsters, quests, whatever could possibly give some clues for NLC. When they were released in Gachapon, I remember there was quite a big to-do about them because they were untranslated. It was pretty obvious they shouldn't have been out yet. Again, at the time there weren't many active K/JMSers to say, "Hey, isn't that supposed to be an event item?" It may have even been added to the data during that awkward stage after Rick disappeared but before Fiel or myself or anyone else had stepped up to fill the void. If that's the case, it's no wonder we didn't catch it. It's also possible that no one made the connection between the nose the came out of Gach and the nose that showed up in the extraction since the one in the extraction was labeled as "time limited" and the ones in game don't show that. That's why I point to the Liar Saps as an important clue, because this is the only way to prove invariably in-game that these two apparently distinct items are one and the same.

Thank you.

As far as what Nexon will do, they'll probably quietly remove it from gachapon and that'll be the end of it. I don't imagine they'll announce about it or anything. I guess the other possibility is that they could make an exchange NPC and, once the event is over, render the permanent gachapon noses unwearable (level 201 requirement or 999 of all stats or something). This would force the people with such noses to go to the exchange NPC and turn in the glitched Nose for a regular level 40 Branch Nose. Don't think it's likely, but it could happen.

The same thing happened when whatever version got their Zhelm 1's removed, if I can recall correctly...

Last one: could Nexon always delete the items directly? O_o

Ok. What I find interesting is that nobody reported it being released... nobody questioned where to get the other noses, nobody said that the noses were glitched at the time of their release... (if they did, I wasn't aware of it. Is someone wants to point me to where that could be found that'd be great)

Not everybody keeps track of events in other versions; I didn't know they were meant to be a time-limited event like the Maple Leaves (with chaos scrolls for them)


When they started coming form Gachapon, people definitely did say it was a glitch that they got them, what with their 10 slots and item name ?????.


Nexon can do pretty much whatever they want to items, they could replace them with the tradeable version (but keep all other item stats), replace them with clean ones, add an expiry date, they could just delete them all, etc.

And you are arguing whether or not something was not intended. You're insulting me based on opposing views.

I said we have opposing views, so stop forcing your views on others. If you see that as an insult, I'd suggest you circumcize your e-penor a bit.

I addressed the Bigfoot glitch up above. Yes, you could argue that white scrolls were meant to stack with clean slate scrolls, if you consider a clean slate a normal scroll. Really the only thing that determined it was possibly unintentional was the message that people got when they USED the scroll, which was that the slot was protected. That message was what ultimately convinced me it was a glitch. However, there's nothing in this Liar Tree Sap that has so far provided convincing evidence to why it's not working the way it should.

If Nexon announces that something works on X, yet it works on Y, then its strange enough for me already. You think otherwise, and that's your POV. Again, you stated your, so no need to argue continuously just because others have a different view to yours.

fragments....

If you're going to reply, then at least replying to the points im making. Breaking up bits and pieces of my arguments for kicks does craps all.

LoL. I don't even have a gacha branch nose.

LoL I was talking about your point of view, not whether you have a gacha nose or not?

Then stop attacking me on it.

I attack you? How about take a look at the mirror, or rather, the past posts, and count how many times you posted, what you said etc? Whenever someone else posts something different to what you said, you would go on and on and on and on (like the titanic song) about what you believe blah blah blah and you're saying we're attacking you?

I attack you? How about take a look at the mirror, or rather, the past posts, and count how many times you posted, what you said etc? Whenever someone else posts something different to what you said, you would go on and on and on and on (like the titanic song) about what you believe blah blah blah and you're saying we're attacking you?

So wtp are you doing now that the discussion is over when Isaac posted the necessary evidence to change my views?

Your entire post is flaming. Perhaps you're the one who needs a circumcision.


~~~~~


Since I don't want to bump this thread:

Excuse me for having better things to do on the weekend than replying to your post then and there. Your realisation/change of view doesnt nullify your past posts and how you forcefully state your view.

All my statements are done forcefully. It doesn't matter whether its for this or something else. Deal with it.

At below V

Excuse me for having better things to do on the weekend than replying to your post then and there. Your realisation/change of view doesnt nullify your past posts and how you forcefully state your view.

Anyhow, that's that. Further discussions should be done in PMs should you wish to continue.

Ok. What I find interesting is that nobody reported it being released... nobody questioned where to get the other noses, nobody said that the noses were glitched at the time of their release... (if they did, I wasn't aware of it. Is someone wants to point me to where that could be found that'd be great)What point would I make?

Um, no offense, but i remember distinctly, before i even got my first tree branch nose on my NL, that there were different ones in the data. And i dont do extractions. I cant point out where it was reported, as all i have to go on is my memory. I believe i heard it through the grapevine, so to speak. At the time, i was just wondering when i could get a luk one, as STR does nothing for my NL.

Oh well, tried making better then my 5 str, 6 dex nose using some 60% face avoids, then trying to get lucky with saps. Ended up with at best with 3str/3dex 4 slots i believe. At that point, when the dex was removed i didnt even feel like using a face acc scroll, so just ended up using saps and got it up to 8. Maybe nexon will leave them as is until karma's scissors get released and i can sell it.

Also, it really is going to tick me off if nexon removes them. I kind of need the 6 dex from my nose to wear my knuckle, and im sure im not the only one who will rage over it. Realistically, i think they would at worst take them out of gach, and end event. So far havent really seen any terribly gamebreaking results from it, as the saps are pretty fickle for most.

Um, no offense, but i remember distinctly, before i even got my first tree branch nose on my NL, that there were different ones in the data. And i dont do extractions. I cant point out where it was reported, as all i have to go on is my memory. I believe i heard it through the grapevine, so to speak. At the time, i was just wondering when i could get a luk one, as STR does nothing for my NL.

Oh well, tried making better then my 5 str, 6 dex nose using some 60% face avoids, then trying to get lucky with saps. Ended up with at best with 3str/3dex 4 slots i believe. At that point, when the dex was removed i didnt even feel like using a face acc scroll, so just ended up using saps and got it up to 8. Maybe nexon will leave them as is until karma's scissors get released and i can sell it.

Also, it really is going to tick me off if nexon removes them. I kind of need the 6 dex from my nose to wear my knuckle, and im sure im not the only one who will rage over it. Realistically, i think they would at worst take them out of gach, and end event. So far havent really seen any terribly gamebreaking results from it, as the saps are pretty fickle for most.

Karma scissors don't work on all untradeable items, only certain ones that are marked with a special attribute. This nose will NEVER get that attribute because it's not supposed to be permanent, so Karma scissors won't work on it.

Karma scissors don't work on all untradeable items, only certain ones that are marked with a special attribute. This nose will NEVER get that attribute because it's not supposed to be permanent, so Karma scissors won't work on it.

So Karma scissors don't work on impermanent items? I know that some versions have expiring Maple Items (they make them expire in like 5 years or something). Assuming that their other items worked the same way but were untradeable, does that mean the Karma scissors won't work for those either?