Why do I complain about DBs?

Claims with no proof at all; they're all generalizations.

Someone actually needs proof that DB's clearly have a completely biased potential compared to any other classes? It couldn't be deduced with common sense?

Someone actually needs proof that DB's clearly have a completely biased potential compared to any other classes? It couldn't be deduced with common sense?

This is the very problem they had with CautionSin. What he perceived to be "common sense" was unable to be backed up with proof. Though you're on the opposite end of the spectrum of CautionSin in terms of where he stands, the very nature of what you're trying to do is the same as his: trying to make generalizations without any solid evidence. Numbers matter more in this topic than anything else, be the fact your assumptions are right or wrong. The majority residents of Southperry aren't foolish enough to maintain their arguments when solid proven facts lie before their eyes.

This is the very problem they had with CautionSin. What he perceived to be "common sense" was unable to be backed up with proof. Though you're on the opposite end of the spectrum of CautionSin in terms of where he stands, the very nature of what you're trying to do is the same as his: trying to make generalizations without any solid evidence. Numbers matter more in this topic than anything else, be the fact your assumptions are right or wrong. The majority residents of Southperry aren't foolish enough to maintain their arguments when solid proven facts lie before their eyes.

Is damage really the only factor that is considered when DB's are taken into account? While I'm willing to admit that the OP'ness of DB is a bit exaggerated, to say that proof is needed to prove something that takes simple observation of the plentiful stock of videos shoved in our faces, you'd really have to have your head stuck up your ass even farther than Nexon's to be this blind.

Have any of you ever tried DB? I can honestly say that I've had the easiest, most laid back time of playing one, even without funding I was able to outdo most of my other classes that I've made. Does the fact that it was intended to be a premium class not serve as proof that it has an unfair advantage? Post-BB is a different story. That really knocked them down on the ladder, and they're not THAT special anymore. But post-chaos, is a different story.

Damage aside, you need to take into account of just what DB is capable of. Easy invincibility frames, better mobility than pretty much any class in almost any situation, stance, an accuracy debuff(which is nerfed in jump) that is third job. Unless rolling spin was nerfed in range, it can hit nearly every Zakum hand if you hug him, a ''transform'' type buff with a cooldown, which is probably a much more useful buff than most. What are it's disadvantages? What CAN'T it do? HS? HB? Yeah, those slight things just barely keep DB in check. All of this, on top of a very good damage range...

And yes, I wasn't dead-serious about my generalizations earlier, but you'd really have to have your head stuck up your ass even further than Nexon to actually think that Dual Blade isn't in some way unfair to nearly every other class, post-chaos.

Tell me some things that DB can't do, that other classes can. Without including the given, like HB, HS, SE, and the like.(HB can be attained anyway). They have the invincibility and survivability as pirates, an attack to match hurricane, some really great buffs that many other classes would KILL for, even greater mobility than shadower's if used right, arguably better mobbing than a mage, what DON'T they have?

I really hope people don't rely on simple numbers alone to analyze this, I understand the need to calculate speed, seconds, and range to see who would out-DPS who in what situation, but this isn't just about their damage.

Oh, and in case it leads to confusion, by ''an attack to match hurricane'' I don't mean that you can hold it down with similar mechanics to hurricane, and I am not saying that it is faster than hurricane.

I'm not going to sit here and argue too you about the definition but it's pretty clear I'm asking you to justify your reasoning, which has yet ot be done. In fact you completely ignored every point I made, therefore all you're doing is proving yourself to be a hypocrite.

Present me reasoning that dual blade is actually inferior to other classes. This all started with your incorrect assumptions concerning mesos. pineapple man you even tried to deny saying it. Seriously, your arrogance and the fact you're obsessive over arguing weak crap points with no reasoning has the audacity to try to talk down too me, lol.

It's actually more pathetic that you have to retort to strawman arguments to avoid the fact that you're wrong. When it comes to money it's about the %'s, the amount of hits, and how fast. So really that kills your argument right there. Unless you'd like to attempt to prove that wrong, but forewarned, there is a damage cap, so it comes to the point of who can hit the damage cap the most and as quick.

Now we take the funding issue out, unless you want to attempt to argue common sense, how are dual blades worse off than the DPS classes? What is your reasoning besides an opinion? And by the way I don't really have any social hiarchy with anyone on SP, I'm not a dedicated user, I don't associate with anyone personally on any forum, so you can throw that "biased" bull pomegranate out. The only thing that we have in common is correcting you, it's not a gang bang, its the fact your ego is overpowering your common sense. I just find it ironic how you sit here and talk about how obsessive I am with arguing your opinion, yet it takes two too tango, so you only make yourself a hypocrite as every goddam insult can be applied to you 2x over.

Now that you're presented with an argument, let's see something besides a cowardly dodge.

Which you obviously don't know, which i spent several posts trying to explain to you

I talk you down, because you insisted on saying how bad my logic was and how I was being invalid, even after countless explanations you continued, stupidity.

You don't know what a strawman is either, maybe your friend told you to say that, he seems as dumb.

Lol, something about damage cap and hitting fastest, not sure who actually has the most hits per minute, but I'm doubting its dual blade. That's if it were possible to have this "infinite" potential bonus you seem to be eluding to.

Something about an argument, didn't read the bigger paragraph.

For the 10th time, show me the calculations.
You and I both know you can't do this, so therefore your entire argument is considered false until do you so.
Stop throwing straw men and justify your claims. Read what KhainiWest said.
And since 90% of what you said here was a straw man, I'm ignoring it. I know what a straw man is; it means that you set up another argument (with little to no relevance to the topic at hand), address it, and then assume that you win the argument just because you defeated your "dummy argument". Does the arguing about the use of logic relate to DBs being OP/not OP? No?

Stop trying to label arguments as variables. Being able to use logic in a situation where you have control over which direction it goes doesn't mean you can apply the same logic in a situation where you can't control everything. Your entire argument fringes on the assumptions that everyone is wrong, and that you are right, even though it is frequently shown that you are in fact wrong. So, again, I lost count of how many times I have to say this, JUSTIFY YOUR CLAIMS, or is your ego too goddamn big to understand the fact that you can be wrong?

I'm not wrong. Didn't read the rest. I'm assuming its something about numbers and calculations and spreadsheets.

I'm curious to see the math riding behind those claims as well. Not to mention that post chaos, Daggers and Kataras are melded together for calculations making them a whole lot more favorable to fund compared to other classes.

Claims with no proof at all; they're all generalizations.

2 claims

This is the very problem they had with CautionSin. What he perceived to be "common sense" was unable to be backed up with proof. Though you're on the opposite end of the spectrum of CautionSin in terms of where he stands, the very nature of what you're trying to do is the same as his: trying to make generalizations without any solid evidence. Numbers matter more in this topic than anything else, be the fact your assumptions are right or wrong. The majority residents of Southperry aren't foolish enough to maintain their arguments when solid proven facts lie before their eyes.

And they tried to argue logically, with terminology they didn't know. I've observed most people southperry are dumb. Yeh, I didn't have "proof" but wasn't I doing exactly what the thread starter was and everyone else saying they're overpowered, including those "arguing" with me.

*inserts another cowardly dodge*

You don't get it do you? You're not right at all; your claims lack evidence to back it up.
And are claims aren't claims at all, Dizzy's can be found true by extractions (totally not like we have an entire section dedicated to extractons), and mine isn't a claim at all; stating something without proof is a claim; at least cronnoponno could justify his claims, which you have failed to do. You cannot simply state something, stubbornly stand aside it, and expect people to believe it; you have to show why that something makes sense/is true. Why do you think it's "innocent until guilty", not "guilty until proven innocent"?
Either prove your claims that DBs do less damage than x and y class, or stop posting. How thick are you?

 Spoiler

It's funny how you criticize my friend, as he was part of the debate team and is currently majoring in CS in one of the best schools for that subject. Real life experience>claiming you know how to use "logic" in hypothetical situations where everything can be set up as variables and can be controlled and using Google as a source of learning how to use logic.

-snip-

Believe me, I agree that DBs are overpowered even with minimal funding. However, the issue I was trying to address is that even if I agree with you, to convince other people how overpowering they are, numerical proof is the best way to go rather than "just take my word for it." Keep in mind I'm not disagreeing with you here, but the way you make the generalization without evidence is pretty much what CautionSin is doing except on the other end of the DBs ARE OP spectrum. And just so you don't feel like your question was unanswered, yes, Southperry does take into account attack speed, buff time, etc. into their calculations (at least, the competent ones do...).

And they tried to argue logically, with terminology they didn't know. I've observed most people southperry are dumb. Yeh, I didn't have "proof" but wasn't I doing exactly what the thread starter was and everyone else saying they're overpowered, including those "arguing" with me.

Nice monologue there. Do you have your numbers to show us yet?

You don't know what a strawman is either, maybe your friend told you to say that, he seems as dumb.

Lol, something about damage cap and hitting fastest, not sure who actually has the most hits per minute, but I'm doubting its dual blade. That's if it were possible to have this "infinite" potential bonus you seem to be eluding to.

I'll make it simple for you.

1)"not sure who actually has the most hits per minute, but I'm doubting its dual blade"

It's mechanic, however were comparing a gradual funding curve, not a godly vs godly. But if you look at our amazing chart actually within the forums you'd know DB does a 10 hit move that does 5000% (rough number) damage. That's per hit, which is about two casts of sacrifice (something I'm familiar with). You said when it comes too funding, dual blade is lower than the other classes. You started with this fallacy:

dual blades are a fairly weak looking class, certainly other classes are a lot better without funding. 30k range in gms on a dual blade is a good 20bil funding (just a rough guess)

I corrected you here:

Mesos' value has plummited. 5b used to be around meh, 400$, right now its 8b for 350$. So 10b a month ago is nearly 25b now. And such fluctuations will change overtime.

Where you then tried to deny it; seen here

I haven't said 20b anywhere.

From then on then it was us trying to actually figure out what the hell conversation you were having. If you take funding away from the equation, you are left with speed. If funding is a factor than it's base power and speed.

I'm sorry I can't make it anymore simpler for you.