Something I never quite understood...

I can tell you that slow is equally useful... or as equally useless as cold beam. Pap is so easy to pin in kb with 4th job, practically any 4th job character can pin it. Tengu moves so fast it feels almost the same as if it wasnt slowed. so comparing it to cold beam isnt very different to comparing to dropping shout. no cold beam means being forced to train on mobs till around late 10x where you have a decent 1v1 attack.

Slow is still more useful than Cold Beam. Something that gets used rarely will always be better than something that never gets used, especially when the thing that never gets used was never useful to begin with.

I concede that it's a bit less useful than it was before now, because Slow was particularly more useful pre-fourth when it was much harder to just pin it to the wall,, but you never know when Nexon'll release something else like Bigfoot where Slow can indeed be useful again.

As for the last bit of your comment... if you're not training on mobs after 7x, you're seriously doing something wrong. Especially if you're using CB at that level. Something horribly, horribly wrong.

As for dropping Shout... Shout actually has its uses, even if it's just using it while training in third job at Gobies, or spamming it at Leprechauns. You can alwyas find some use for utility skills like that, but when looking at CB, you'll really never use it again after you hit third job for anything other than freezing a single enemy until you get Comp, and even during second you won't be training with it. Just, again, using it to feeze, or unnecessarily picking off a single enemy once in a while that you could just lure with Claw and mob.

I can tell you that slow is equally useful... or as equally useless as cold beam. Pap is so easy to pin in kb with 4th job, practically any 4th job character can pin it. Tengu moves so fast it feels almost the same as if it wasnt slowed. so comparing it to cold beam isnt very different to comparing to dropping shout. no cold beam means being forced to train on mobs till around late 10x where you have a decent 1v1 attack.

wut about anego?


id say about the hybrid hero. it looks fun both being able to utilize a sword and an axe. id rather drop FA and get pts into shield mastery if u go 1handed, it takes off like 500+ dmg and if u do end up getting blocking its even more helpful.

pts into shield mastery if u go 1handed, it takes off like 500+ dmg and if u do end up getting blocking its even more helpful.

Maxed shield mastery, with the highest def shield currently available, scrolled for defense, will reduce about 80 additional damage (shield itself would reduce 80 so 160 total...). That's over a shield scrolled for attack, which it will do approximately 8 damage reduction. But you get 15+ extra attack.

Axes are not superior to swords, ever. The damage you lose out on due to stabs won't be made up by scrolling, especially since nobody scrolls axes in second job, and they're completely worthless in third.

The trek from 43 to 64 is so short that the 43 maple weapons might as well be worthless as well, with the Rohan existing, and past that you get into the levels where you use Coma. Stabbing with a Coma or a Panic is a no-no, even moreso than usual.

The only time axes could really be useful is the pre-second-job levels, where your damage is so unstable that the stabs hardly make any difference anyway.

To sum it up, axes are god-awful and no amount of scrolling will ever make them anything but, especially with Brandish.

Nobody scrolls axes in second job? I beg to differ. I scrolled my 86/11 Maple Dragon Axe for less than 5m. I'm going to scroll an even better Demon Axe when my Fighter reaches that level. Let's see what kind of sword you can put together for less than 50m mesos.

Axes > Swords in 2nd job, assuming you are not ridiculously rich and you can't afford to scroll a godly version of every weapon from 10-120, and you aren't so poor that you can't afford axe scrolls o_o

were certainly riled up about this for once

butterfli, your build is pointless because by the time you max axe stuff, you will only ever use swords. if you actually worked for lvl 120 (and say... didnt leech), youd realize in your training that swords are simply superior, just like dks dont use a polearm at skele or a spear at himes. and once you get brandish, youll only use axes to show off, not to train.

if you switch swords and axes in your build, i would say its viable. but its still pointless, since shout and relax ARE nice skills to have and youre hurting yourself by not using swords until 4th job / near 4th.

(i really regret not maxing slow on my fp. im considering replacing element amp w/ it so i can spam meteor if i ever get to 4th. and making up the damage with an elemental weapon. not sure its a good idea. but then again ive gone from 78-82 in the last 3 years after not getting mist first since ludi wasnt out at the time.)

butterfli, your build is pointless because by the time you max axe stuff, you will only ever use swords. if you actually worked for lvl 120 (and say... didnt leech), youd realize in your training that swords are simply superior, just like dks dont use a polearm at skele or a spear at himes. and once you get brandish, youll only use axes to show off, not to train.

yeah if i actually trained, played, and experienced my crusader to 120 and didnt leech my way there, all this wouldve been clear to me. but of course, that can only be said if i even had a level 10 swordsman in the first place

Nobody scrolls axes in second job? I beg to differ. I scrolled my 86/11 Maple Dragon Axe for less than 5m. I'm going to scroll an even better Demon Axe when my Fighter reaches that level. Let's see what kind of sword you can put together for less than 50m mesos.

Axes > Swords in 2nd job, assuming you are not ridiculously rich and you can't afford to scroll a godly version of every weapon from 10-120, and you aren't so poor that you can't afford axe scrolls o_o

Your total weapon attack as an axe user must be 10% higher than a sword warrior's total weapon attack. Then your damage is estimated same damage with the sword (prob is STR and such you gain from scrolling the sword). That is, if the weapons have equal speed.

I'm not sure, but I assume that most axe warriors will deal lower damage at these levels due to this.

Your total weapon attack as an axe user must be 10% higher than a sword warrior's total weapon attack. Then your damage is estimated same damage with the sword (prob is STR and such you gain from scrolling the sword). That is, if the weapons have equal speed.

I'm not sure, but I assume that most axe warriors will deal lower damage at these levels due to this.

If what you said is true, then you need a 78 att Zard to match my axe. And you don't get the +32 accuracy bonus. Absolutely freaking positive that a 78 Zard would cost more than 5m. What kind of maple sword would compare to my axe?

Maple Swords really can't compare easily... they are faster and go with a shield. It would definitely need to be about 90-100 total attack though (shields cost a lot though).


The speed is really nice though, I have done 2nd job purely with the level 43 Maple Sword (scrolled +7 60% on a good clean one fortunately) and due to being able to stay lower dex it is very decent in comparison to normal dex 2h'd.

actually in terms of dps an 80 maple soul singer would be about the same as a 78 zard / 86 2h axe. and those are probably pretty expensive too >.<

to match a 78 zard per hit, you would probably need 88~90 att in a shield/sword. and then your dps is a lot better.

it only gets wayyyy exaggerated at 1xx lvls when the .6 difference in the str multiplier cant be made up for with a *little* bit of extra attack. but fast5 1h swords only need about 103% of a 2h normal6 swords att to match in terms of dps.

Ya.. Zenkat had did a whole bunch of calculations with Axes and swords and for his Damage Per min with Brandish he needed to have a whole bunch more Atk on his axe then any sword user (i think my basic liek +4 str Stonetooth had the same DPM as his Axe which was leik +13 str or something? (neglecting speed 100%) so his delemiah was that he could never be the strongest Beran Hero no matter how much he upgraded his equips (specially with a certain highest level Heros ... uber 100% cant be hacked "legit" Stonetooth sword.. ) i thikn thats a main reason for losing one of the best Beran Heros .. kinda off corse but ya.. I wouldnt go hybrid.. Shout is very usefull even if your not using it 100% like @ Gobbies back in the day, but its rather useful all around for its stunning ability when you least expect it.. (yay for talking in a mob after stunning)

Yeah, I'm sorry to say but my rage-less hybrid theory was shot down (after NLC arrived). I didn't listen and my brother made a crusader anyways (hybrid). He doesn't suffer too badly, but there is never any circumstance that he'll use his axe any more (after 90). There is little benefit after the low(er) levels and yep. Coincidentally the exact opposite is true for ass-dits, you lose nothing (too important) when going hybrid (albeit much earlier).