Maker and Black/Dark Crystals

I have checked most of the maker threads and I couldn't find an answer to this question.

Can the result from using a black/dark crystal when making an item be negative?

Appraised D/B crystals only say there's no way to tell what the effect on the item will be, and Isaac's thread about maker only mentions "Random [1, 2, 3]" but doesnt say if it can be negative.

If the previous question is yes, then:

Is it worth to use an appraised dark/black crystal when making an item? what are the probablilities of it coming out with bad stats?
I heard some where that they act like chaos scrolls so can some one confirm this?

Thank you.

The answer is yes, they work like Chaos. Black affects non-AP, Dark affects AP only.
They also can affect all of those stats that are possible on the item itself, and I believe it activates AFTER other crystals, so you can make it hit something that you just added with another crystal. They can range from their highest number +/- and in between, ie. a lvl 3 Dark can add anywhere from +5 to -5 on STR, DEX, LUK, and INT.

I used lvl 2 Dark and a lvl 2 Power on a pair of pants, the Power added 3 str, the Dark took away 3 str, and it ended up average.

The answer is yes, they work like Chaos. Black affects non-AP, Dark affects AP only.
They also can affect all of those stats that are possible on the item itself, and I believe it activates AFTER other crystals, so you can make it hit something that you just added with another crystal. They can range from their highest number +/- and in between, ie. a lvl 3 Dark can add anywhere from +5 to -5 on STR, DEX, LUK, and INT.

I used lvl 2 Dark and a lvl 2 Power on a pair of pants, the Power added 3 str, the Dark took away 3 str, and it ended up average.

Doesn't a stimulator prevent stat losses, which therefore means that -3 STR would have never happened and could have been a +6 STR pants instead?

Stimulators can make things better or worse, so no. Plus stimulators affect stats seperately than crystals.

no, in maker stimulators remove the possibility of under average. Dark/Black crystals can still go under though

Stimulators can make things better or worse, so no. Plus stimulators affect stats seperately than crystals.

no, in maker stimulators remove the possibility of under average. Dark/Black crystals can still go under though

My plan for +8/+10 base INT equipment has gone up in flames.

/QQ

So black crystals can't be use to increase stats but all the rest? (IE: Attack, Defense, Accuracy, etc)
Is it a good idea to use Black and Dark crystals to make your items?

So black crystals can't be use to increase stats but all the rest? (IE: Attack, Defense, Accuracy, etc)
Is it a good idea to use Black and Dark crystals to make your items?

Not really. Usually you'll only be able to afford an intermediate and you'll end up with like +1 to all stats. You're better off using stat crystals. People really only use them when they're trying to make equipment as best as possible.

Question 1: Are dark crystals applied before or after stat crystals? If I used a dark crystal which gave -3 and a str crystal which gave +5 on an equip with 1 stat normally, would it end up with 5 stats (1-3, changed to 0, +5) or 3 stats (1+5-3)?

Question 2: what's the probability of chaos/dark crystals lowering or raising stats? I know chaos scrolls take 5 "trials" where they raise by 1, do nothing, or lower by 1, something like this:

 too bad I suck to much to actually write a program for this or know how to do it with distribution and stuff

Trial	-5	-4	-3	-2	-1	0	+1	+2	+3	+4	+5
1	0	0	0	0	.0.333333333	0.333333333	0.333333333	0	0	0	0
2	0	0	0	0.111111111	0.222222222	0.333333333	0.222222222	0.111111111	0	0	0
3	0	0	0.037037037	0.111111111	0.222222222	0.259259259	0.222222222	0.111111111	0.037037037	0	0
4	0	0.012345679	0.049382716	0.12345679	0.197530864	0.234567901	0.197530864	0.12345679	0.049382716	0.012345679	0
5	0.004115226	0.028806584	0.061728395	0.12345679	0.185185185	0.209876543	0.185185185	0.12345679	0.061728395	0.028806584	0.004115226

Oh, if you're trying to calculate a lower-level crystal, just look at that row. For Intermediate dark (-3 to +3), look at the third row. And that's probability, not percents, so .185= 18.5% chance of that happening.

Edit: Nevermind, done. Still want to find Noah's post to double-check.
Edit 2: Found a made a minor mistake, fixed it.

As far as I've seen, black/dark crystals are applied before other crystals. In fact, I've never seen any new stat vary at all by natural variation either.

I've never seen any new stat vary at all by natural variation either.

5 wisdom + 3 dc = this staff

 Spoiler

i made archer shoes with basic wis and dc and they came out 1 int

i made archer shoes with basic wis and dc and they came out 1 int

Archer shoes with Int?

Since black/dark crystals only can change your stats 3 points above or below, and since there ¡s apparently no chance for it to fail (change nothing), should I guess that the probabilities to get any change are:

100/6 = 16.6% to all?

that is:
-3 = 16.6%
-2 = 16.6%
-1 = 16.6%
+1 = 16.6%
+2 = 16.6%
+3 = 16.6%

Excuse me if I am wrong I dont have much idea on what im doing, can someone check this? :f6:

Archer shoes with Int?

Since black/dark crystals only can change your stats 3 points above or below, and since there ¡s apparently no chance for it to fail (change nothing), should I guess that the probabilities to get any change are:

100/6 = 16.6% to all?

that is:
-3 = 16.6%
-2 = 16.6%
-1 = 16.6%
+1 = 16.6%
+2 = 16.6%
+3 = 16.6%

Excuse me if I am wrong I dont have much idea on what im doing, can someone check this? :f6:

I think it works like that chart I posted above. It certainly could do nothing to your stats.

Oh, and I think I've had my question answered: Dark crystals are (or can be) applied AFTER other crystals. I wonder if it actually matter what order you put them in on the creation screen.

Archer shoes with Int?

Since black/dark crystals only can change your stats 3 points above or below, and since there ¡s apparently no chance for it to fail (change nothing), should I guess that the probabilities to get any change are:

100/6 = 16.6% to all?

that is:
-3 = 16.6%
-2 = 16.6%
-1 = 16.6%
+1 = 16.6%
+2 = 16.6%
+3 = 16.6%

Excuse me if I am wrong I dont have much idea on what im doing, can someone check this? :f6:

They can also add 0 (or -0 if you prefer)

5 wisdom + 3 dc = this staff

 Spoiler

8-10 INT shoes/gloves, here I come!

They can also add 0 (or -0 if you prefer)

They can't add/subtrack 4 or 5 though. So that would change the % to get any stat to 14.28% (Still guessing) :p

8-10 INT shoes/gloves, here I come!

Make sure you put the stat crystal you want modified first. It might just be a precaution, but it might not.

They can't add/subtrack 4 or 5 though. So that would change the % to get any stat to 14.28% (Still guessing) :p

Look at my chart plz.

Archer shoes with Int?

yeah ... washing and all