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+--- Thread: Quick Question about Xenon weapons (/showthread.php?tid=68172)
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Quick Question about Xenon weapons - DavyJonesx - 2013-11-30
It would be far more beneficial to use 5 atk 5 all stat for a xenon weapon than a 8 atk scroll, right?
Since the 5 all stat would be like 5x main stat for a xenon instead of 3 atk?
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - SaptaZapta - 2013-11-30
5 allstat is 15 main stat for a Xenon.
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - DavyJonesx - 2013-11-30
SaptaZapta Wrote:5 allstat is 15 main stat for a Xenon.
Didn't know that tnx.
So 15 main stat > 3 atk?
Or do I need to take current total atk and main stat and compare the two?
I think someone had like some kind of chart showing how to keep attack in balance with main stat to get best result?
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - Green4Ever - 2013-11-30
5 all stat should beat 3 att easily unless you have incredibly low % stats.
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - MountLag - 2013-11-30
Green4Ever Wrote:5 all stat should beat 3 att easily unless you have incredibly low % stats.
% damage increase from all stat & atk don't depend on %stat.
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - ShinkuDragon - 2013-11-30
pretty much what mountlag said, you'd need to have an insane amount of +base stat (read, PLUS, not PERCENT) for 3 attack to beat 15 main stat. [MENTION=5956]hadriel[/MENTION]; is the leading expert on the subject of "how much"
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - Even - 2013-11-30
It depens on how far you're going to enchant it and which weapon you're scrolling. With 8 w.atts its easier to reach past 200 w.att, thus giving you 5 w.att per enchant over 4 w.att.
Meister weapon with 8 w.att scrolls only needs ONE enchant to reach 200 w.att, meaning the next 14 will give you 5 w.att or more. While a 5 w.att scrolled one needs 8 enchants to reach 200. This means if you reach 8 star on both weapons and thus also giving you 7 bonus w.att for having it 200 w.att faster.
Overall that mean: 200 w.att 8 star 50 all stat vs 237 w.att 8 star.
Its debateable which one of them are better, depending on your % w.att vs % stat, but without the enchants the 5 w.att 5 all stats IS better.
This wont apply to hearts, the 5 w.att 5 all stat is always better and this is not the last time they will release power creeping scrolls. With anniversary we will get 100% 10 w.att 3 all stat scrolls (hot time) & 40% chance 10 w.att 3 all stat (30% boom rate if failed) in the coin shop.
Note that if you're using fafnir, 5 all stat 5 w.att becomes close to better even with enchanting.
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - Takebacker - 2013-11-30
SaptaZapta Wrote:5 allstat is 15 main stat for a Xenon.
This is only true pre-nerf i believe, which GMS does not have.
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - Grey - 2013-11-30
Takebacker Wrote:This is only true pre-nerf i believe, which GMS does not have.
Why would it no longer be true? Each stat is weighted equally in the damage formula for Xenon, so while 1 STR, DEX, or LUK individually can be viewed as 1 stat, adding 1 into any of those would somewhat be equivalent to adding 1 STR for a warrior, or 1 INT for a mage, etc (I believe you'd have to assume that they're all equal in quantity (same amount of base STR, DEX, LUK) before the addition of the point for this to actually be for sure true), 1 All Stats, being +1 STR and +1 DEX and +1 LUK, would be 3 times the value of 1 single stat, or 1 All Stat = 3 Main Stat for Xenon, hence 5 All Stat is 15 Main Stat.
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - Takebacker - 2013-11-30
Grey Wrote:Why would it no longer be true? Each stat is weighted equally in the damage formula for Xenon, so while 1 STR, DEX, or LUK individually is 1 stat, 1 All Stats, being +1 STR and +1 DEX and +1 LUK, would be 3 times the value of 1 single stat, or 1 All Stat = 3 Main Stat for Xenon, hence 5 All Stat is 15 Main Stat.
I understand the logic. (srsly what am i 5?) My point was they changed the formula for how much each stat is worth so that individually it's less than others but all together it still comes out to be more.
In KMST, at least.
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - Grey - 2013-11-30
Takebacker Wrote:I understand the logic. My point was they changed the formula for how much each stat is worth.
In KMST, at least.
They never change the basic (4 * Main Stat + Secondary Stat) part of the formula, the only thing they ever change is multipliers.
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - Takebacker - 2013-11-30
Grey Wrote:They never change the basic (4 * Main Stat + Secondary Stat) part of the formula, the only thing they ever change is multipliers.
Obviously my memory is fuzzy but ok, "point was they changed the formula".
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - Grey - 2013-11-30
Takebacker Wrote:Obviously my memory is fuzzy but ok, "point was they changed the formula".
Okay, well, to clear things up, no, they didn't change the weights of each stat (they're all weighted equally still), they just changed the Whip Blade multiplier.
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - Takebacker - 2013-11-30
Grey Wrote:Okay, well, to clear things up, no, they didn't change the weights of each stat (they're all weighted equally still), they just changed the Whip Blade multiplier.
Mmm yes. Still nitpicking but i wasn't suggesting they were weighted unevenly just that it was less than 100% of what a stat point is normally worth because they use 3. Nerfing whip blade multiplier probably does the same exact thing power wise anyway lol.
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - SaptaZapta - 2013-11-30
Takebacker Wrote:Mmm yes. Still nitpicking but i wasn't suggesting they were weighted unevenly just that it was less than 100% of what a stat point is normally worth because they use 3. Nerfing whip blade multiplier probably does the same exact thing power wise anyway lol.
Which doesn't matter to the original question.
Since the damage formula still multiplies "mainstat" with "attack", deciding whether to add attack or stats still requires the same ratios to be worked out, and for Xenon 1 allstat = 3 mainstat.
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - Takebacker - 2013-11-30
SaptaZapta Wrote:Which doesn't matter to the original question.
Since the damage formula still multiplies "mainstat" with "attack", deciding whether to add attack or stats still requires the same ratios to be worked out, and for Xenon 1 allstat = 3 mainstat.
Sorry but this added nothing to either discussion since you didn't understand what i mistakenly tried to correct you about. Or maybe it was me, idfk.
It's over anyway let's laugh and move on.
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - Tigeon - 2013-11-30
Okay so after all these posts with differnt claims and such, anyone mind giving a simple answer to whether 50 all stat 50 attack would beat 80 attack pure [this is gotten from perfect scrolling of unleashed and RED respectively]
Unleash scrolling wins right? Simple answer in one sentence with less than 10 words please since you guyslike to get technical way too much xD
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - Grey - 2013-11-30
Takebacker Wrote:Mmm yes. Still nitpicking but i wasn't suggesting they were weighted unevenly just that it was less than 100% of what a stat point is normally worth because they use 3. Nerfing whip blade multiplier probably does the same exact thing power wise anyway lol.
The thing is, the only way that 1 all stat wouldn't be 3 main stat for Xenon is if they were weighted unevenly (meaning, it wasn't 4 * (STR + DEX + LUK), but something like x * STR + y * DEX + z * LUK, where no pair of x, y, and z are equal, if they were, we could divide out a number such that we could put it in the form 4 * (STR + DEX + LUK)). Like Sapta said, the formula's multiplicative. There's no way any one of Xenon's stat points would be worth less than "100% of a stat point" relative to the other classes, increasing any one stat would still add to your damage a factor of multiplier * attack/100, and increasing all three stats would increase it by a factor of 3 * multiplier * attack/100. The fact that Xenon has 3 main stats doesn't make any one of them worth any less than any other class's single main stat.
If we go by an example, we have a Marksmen, I guess, since their multiplier is pretty close to Xenon's, though I don't remember what it is, I just know it's around 1.3 or 1.32. The Marksman has 900 DEX, 400 ATT (for simplicity, I'm assuming that secondary stats will have no effect on range, but it actually does, and puts Xenon at a slight disadvantage, I guess), the Xenon has 300 STR, 300 DEX, 300 LUK, 400 ATT.
If we increase the Marksman's DEX by 1, then their damage goes from multiplier * (4 * 900) * 400/100 to multiplier * (4 * (900 + 1)) * 400/100,
which is the same as multiplier * (4 * 900) * 400/100 + multiplier * (4 * (1)) * 400/100.
If we do the same for a single stat on Xenon, their damage goes from multiplier * (4 * (300 + 300 + 300)) * 400/100 to multiplier * (4 * (300 + 300 + 300 + 1) * 400/100,
which is the same as multiplier * (4 * (300 + 300 + 300)) * 400/100 + multiplier * (4 * (1)) * 400/100.
As you can see, the second term, the increase in damage due to adding 1 stat point, multiplier * (4 * (1)) * 400/100, is the same in both cases. If Xenon were to gain 1 all stats instead, then the 1 in the second term would be a 3, and they'd gain 3 times as much.
Sorry, I saw that you wanted to move on just now.
Tigeon Wrote:Okay so after all these posts with differnt claims and such, anyone mind giving a simple answer to whether 50 all stat 50 attack would beat 80 attack pure [this is gotten from perfect scrolling of unleashed and RED respectively]
Unleash scrolling wins right? Simple answer in one sentence with less than 10 words please since you guyslike to get technical way too much xD
Sorry, this is gonna be a long one.
Umm, it really does depend on what kinda of non potential stats you already have, I'd guess. Generally, I'd say for most people (most Xenons), 50 all stat and 50 atk would be better than 80atk, but Even brings up a good point, in that the more attack you have, the better your enhances will be (as in, you'd get more attack overall through enhancements with 8atks), so if you're planning on enhancing, it might be better to choose 80atk.
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - Even - 2013-11-30
Tigeon Wrote:Okay so after all these posts with differnt claims and such, anyone mind giving a simple answer to whether 50 all stat 50 attack would beat 80 attack pure [this is gotten from perfect scrolling of unleashed and RED respectively]
Unleash scrolling wins right? Simple answer in one sentence with less than 10 words please since you guyslike to get technical way too much xD
Unleashed beats it most of the time, my theory depens on how many stars you enchant and which weapon you scroll.
Quick Question about Xenon weapons - MountLag - 2013-11-30
Tigeon Wrote:Okay so after all these posts with differnt claims and such, anyone mind giving a simple answer to whether 50 all stat 50 attack would beat 80 attack pure [this is gotten from perfect scrolling of unleashed and RED respectively]
Unleash scrolling wins right? Simple answer in one sentence with less than 10 words please since you guyslike to get technical way too much xD
(STR + DEX + LUK) / (3+STR%+DEX%+LUK%) all stat = ATK/(1+ATK%) attack