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LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Derosis - 2013-06-27
http://www.friatider.se/lan-party-tax-hits-swedish-gamers
You have got to be sh'itting me.
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Birdie - 2013-06-27
would love to know how they came up with In the eyes of the law, these are slot machines. There is no difference,
would really suck if dreamhack gets screwed over
edit: ok bad article, events were people bring their own computer will not be taxed. The tax is only for businesses that rent out time, so internet cafes that focus on gaming.
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Derosis - 2013-06-27
Birdie Wrote:would love to know how they came up with In the eyes of the law, these are slot machines. There is no difference,
would really suck if dreamhack gets screwed over
With this law, it will be.
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Malthe - 2013-06-27
Jävla svenska!
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Lozmaster - 2013-06-27
What is with the late(and incorrect) reactionary threads today.
This is for establishments that organise cash prizes for LAN tournaments, not self organised ones between friends for pomegranates 'n' giggles, or even even internet cafes as they are specifically excluded from the fee.
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Derosis - 2013-06-27
Lozmaster Wrote:What is with the late(and incorrect) reactionary threads today.
This is for establishments that organise cash prizes for LAN tournaments, not self organised ones between friends for pomegranates 'n' giggles, or even even internet cafes as they are specifically excluded from the fee.
Yeah, but some of the quoteable phrases in the story. And especially why the Gambling organization is on it and not a sports related one. I don't remember Sports being a Gamble.
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Jettono - 2013-06-27
From what I understood of the last part of the article, normal people can still have LAN parties for free (unless I read it/interpreted it wrong), but this is still pineappleing ridiculous. No gambling is (explicitly) involved, so why are they saying that they're basically the same thing as slot machines?
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Lozmaster - 2013-06-27
Jettono Wrote:From what I understood of the last part of the article, normal people can still have LAN parties for free (unless I read it/interpreted it wrong), but this is still pineappleing ridiculous. No gambling is (explicitly) involved, so why are they saying that they're basically the same thing as slot machines?
How is paying a fee to enter a tournament for a chance to win money not gambling?
Granted, slot machines aren't the best example, but what's the difference between that, and say, a poker tournament?
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Malthe - 2013-06-27
Lozmaster Wrote:What is with the late(and incorrect) reactionary threads today.
This is for establishments that organise cash prizes for LAN tournaments, not self organised ones between friends for pomegranates 'n' giggles, or even even internet cafes as they are specifically excluded from the fee.
My reaction is entirely regarding the fact that this is fucking bullshit and saying that there is no difference to a slot machine and winning a prize at a LAN in a game is fucking bullshit.
Competitive games should fall under sports, not gambling.
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Words - 2013-06-27
Lozmaster Wrote:How is paying a fee to enter a tournament for a chance to win money not gambling?
Granted, slot machines aren't the best example, but what's the difference between that, and say, a poker tournament?
What about other sports that hold similar events? Should they be considered gambling?
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Jettono - 2013-06-27
Lozmaster Wrote:How is paying a fee to enter a tournament for a chance to win money not gambling?
Granted, slot machines aren't the best example, but what's the difference between that, and say, a poker tournament?
I should have worded it differently. What I did mean to say is that this now requires permits for ALL LAN parties, even the ones where there's no prize nor entry fee involved. Unless there's a separate part of the law excluding that.
Though I did say it wasn't explicitly gambling, I can kinda see now that it is still gambling. I didn't quite think about the paid ones. My mistake.
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Derosis - 2013-06-27
Lozmaster Wrote:How is paying a fee to enter a tournament for a chance to win money not gambling?
Granted, slot machines aren't the best example, but what's the difference between that, and say, a poker tournament?
Something that takes skill and isn't rigged for you to lose is not f'ucking gambling. (my caps lock key slipped on me. Oopsies).
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - KhainiWest - 2013-06-27
I have no idea how they made this a comparison to slot machines
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Lozmaster - 2013-06-28
Derosis Wrote:Something that takes skill and isn't rigged for you to lose is not f'ucking gambling. (my caps lock key slipped on me. Oopsies).
Ok. So how is it any different from a poker tournament then, which is widely regarded as gambling, yet falls under both those conditions of "taking skill" and "not being rigged".
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Derosis - 2013-06-28
Lozmaster Wrote:Ok. So how is it any different from a poker tournament then, which is widely regarded as gambling, yet falls under both those conditions of "taking skill" and "not being rigged".
In DotA or League of Legends or Warcraft 3 or StarCraft II. Everything is equal for the player in front of them. Everyone has an equal chance of winning until the better man comes out. The cards are random for Poker, yet everyone knows what Heros/Champions are picked. What Items there are in the shops, what Protoss/Zerg/Teran are better with/against, and vice versa. Everything is laid out bare in front of you, yet strategy against your opponent is what you use as skill. Microing small units, and macroing the map. It takes many hours of practice, and years of experience to get to the potential some PAID BY SPONSORS Team like Na'Vi from DotA, or a global gaming brand known as EG, or even TSM Snapdragon from League of Legends. There is also a big thing when it's called E-SPORTS by the entirety of the world as well. And it's featured on ESPN, MLG, and etc so forth.
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Lozmaster - 2013-06-28
Derosis Wrote:In DotA or League of Legends or Warcraft 3 or StarCraft II. Everything is equal for the player in front of them. Everyone has an equal chance of winning until the better man comes out. The cards are random for Poker, yet everyone knows what Heros/Champions are picked. What Items there are in the shops, what Protoss/Zerg/Teran are better with/against, and vice versa. Everything is laid out bare in front of you, yet strategy against your opponent is what you use as skill. Microing small units, and macroing the map. It takes many hours of practice, and years of experience to get to the potential some PAID BY SPONSORS Team like Na'Vi from DotA, or a global gaming brand known as EG, or even TSM Snapdragon from League of Legends. There is also a big thing when it's called E-SPORTS by the entirety of the world as well. And it's featured on ESPN, MLG, and etc so forth.
Ok, but I know for a fact there are sponsored poker players, poker tournaments are featured on TV, and being a skilled poker player isn't random (despite the card draw) else the same people wouldn't always be the ones who end up winning.
Do you think the people who are good at poker just magically happened upon it? No, they also spent " many hours of practice, and years of experience to get to the potential some PAID BY SPONSORS" practicing to use "strategy against your opponent is what you use as skill.".
Either name some things that are significantly different between the principle of putting money down on the two different games for a cash prize (those don't exist), or accept that the act of betting money (an entry fee) for a cash prize IS gambling.
That said, there are probably al ot of equivilant areasa where gambling is occuring that aren't being taxed (yet?). I don't know, I'm not Swiss.
Jettono Wrote:I should have worded it differently. What I did mean to say is that this now requires permits for ALL LAN parties, even the ones where there's no prize nor entry fee involved. Unless there's a separate part of the law excluding that.
Though I did say it wasn't explicitly gambling, I can kinda see now that it is still gambling. I didn't quite think about the paid ones. My mistake.
This law only applies to the tournaments where money is being bet, which is why, pineapple this source. Latest info actually suggests it only applies to internet cafes where money is being bet AND the only focus is gaming. So literally nowhere is affected by this.
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Malthe - 2013-06-28
Lozmaster Wrote:Ok, but I know for a fact there are sponsored poker players, poker tournaments are featured on TV, and being a skilled poker player isn't random (despite the card draw) else the same people wouldn't always be the ones who end up winning.Putting down entry money to enter a tournament is not equivalent to gambling.
Do you think the people who are good at poker just magically happened upon it? No, they also spent " many hours of practice, and years of experience to get to the potential some PAID BY SPONSORS" practicing to use "strategy against your opponent is what you use as skill.".
Either name some things that are significantly different between the principle of putting money down on the two different games for a cash prize (those don't exist), or accept that the act of betting money (an entry fee) for a cash prize IS gambling.
Gambling is about something that is either partially or fully up to chance(Or where the random element can completely outweigh any skill), blackjack is also a lot about knowing when to call and when to keep going, but it's obviously gambling because it is far too random. I'm not going to open the can of worms that is poker, instead i am going to use an example that was used already, which is a slot machine. And for comparison i will use both badminton and Starcraft II.
When you use a slot machine, you use money and then you have a small chance to win more money back. No matter how good a sense you have of slot machines, no matter how experienced you are with them, any random person could easily come and use the same amount of money as you did and come out far far far ontop of you. This is entirely chance based and is quite obviously gambling.
If someone were to make a badminton tournament that required you to pay an entry fee and you proceed to win simply because you're the far superior player, you are in no way gambling. You didn't take a risk, even if someone who's better than you were to be in the tournament and you lost to him you'd still not have gambled.
It did not come down to chance, you lost because someone was better than you. You're not going to lose to some random guy with no experience.
And now starcraft II, it is the entirely same principle. If a player like Liquid´Hero were to enter a random tournament with an entry fee, it'd again regardless of wether he wins or loses, have had nothing to do with chance. He wont lose to a guy who's never touched starcraft II before. If he loses it's because his enemy was better than him, not because of luck.
And let's take fourth example, chess. If someone were to make a chess tournament with an entry fee and you enter that tournament, it has pineappleall to do with luck who wins and everything to do with who is better.
Even remotely suggesting that winning a tournament with an entry fee is the same as gambling your money at a slot machine is absolutely ridiculous. If something isn't up to chance or luck then i really don't see how it's gambling.
And just to touch poker briefly, poker has OFTEN been considered to be removed from gambling and be considered a sport. But organizations believe the random element to be a tad too big(Like being dealt a 2-7 odd coloured hand in hold 'em against an opponent with a 3-5 even coloured hand, no such disadvantage exists in chess, starcraft II or badminton, you can not be dealt a bad hand in either of those games, the 'hand' you have to play with in those is entirely how good you are)
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Words - 2013-06-28
It all really comes down to the way they define "gamble".
As much as I'd love to agree with Malthe and Derosis, their point is irrelevant to whether it's gambling or not.
On the other hand, Lozmaster is partially right. Yes, it can be considered gambling but his examples are sorta bad.
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - KhainiWest - 2013-06-28
reddit Wrote:Bad article. The Swedish sources in the article does not speak of LAN parties. The tax is for businesses only, and is for gaming computers belonging to the business, where customers pay per game or for the time used playing. Typically "Gaming" intenet cafees. (The computers must be used primarily for gaming.) Essentially, if the service sold is equivalent to an arcade, they have to pay the arcade tax even if the service is implemented by LAN connected PCs. The ruling cited does not mention private LAN parties, and does not seem to be relevant to them in any way.http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1h6nxl/lan_party_tax_hits_swedish_gamers/
Now that makes sense.
Lozmaster Wrote:Ok. So how is it any different from a poker tournament then, which is widely regarded as gambling, yet falls under both those conditions of "taking skill" and "not being rigged".
In sweden at least it's determined by the specific game they are playing
http://rose.casinocitytimes.com/article/gambling-and-the-law-sweden-gets-it-mostly-right-60271
LAN party tax hits Swedish gamers - Satellite - 2013-06-28
Finland will probably copy this. Some politicians like to follow Sweden in everything.
Not to mention everything is taxed here. No reason? They'll make a reason. Finland is like the most expensive fking country ever for any average John Doe who bothers to work, good for millionaires and the best country if you wanna sit jobless at home leeching those who work.