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+--- Thread: WA vs Primary stat (/showthread.php?tid=52306)
WA vs Primary stat - Kaasoljoyyx - 2012-03-06
How does this formula go again to get 1 WA = X primary, when you start including stuff like %att and %primary.
Does Y secondary and %secodary stat matter to try and get 1 WA = X primary?
Does your weapon multiplier matter to try and get 1 WA = X primary?
For some reason I recall the formula looking something like
(total primary / total WA) gets you the ratio. Is that outdated/incorrect?
WA vs Primary stat - Stereo - 2012-03-06
That's quite flawed yes.
The formula goes %w.atk*w.atk*(4*primary*%primary + secondary*%secondary) [*weapon type constant]
Where 'primary' is your main stat base, and any +stats, and MW. (and obviously not counting %stats, since those are %primary)
What you do with this is stick in a variable where you want to compare, on each side.
If you're looking for w.atk vs. primary (normal +stats)
%w.atk*[w.atk + 1]*(4*primary*%primary + secondary*%secondary) = %w.atk*w.atk*(4*[primary + K]*%primary + secondary*%secondary)
Subtracting the original formula, given above, from both sides, results in
%w.atk*(4*primary*%primary + secondary*%secondary) = %w.atk*w.atk*4*K*%primary
If you want to simplify things, assume secondary stats are negligible:
%w.atk*4*primary*%primary = %w.atk*w.atk*4*K*%primary
Get rid of some variables
primary = w.atk*K
K = primary/w.atk
You can obviously solve for K without getting rid of secondary stats, but there's no simple ratio formula anymore. K will still tell you the number of primary stats you need to gain to equal a gain of 1 attack though.
If you're comparing increases in total w.atk vs. total stats, then you'd have [w.atk*%w.atk + 1] vs. [primary*%primary + K], but that's really not a very useful figure in my opinion, cause there's no way to increase either of those directly.
WA vs Primary stat - Kaasoljoyyx - 2012-03-06
So "(total primary / total WA)" was close, just that
total primary = base + gear + MW (i.e. excluding potential)
total WA = your total WA
So if your primary stat was fixed, the more WA you add, the less 'primary stat' you need to equal 1 WA.
The main question I'm trying to answer is the following
"If you had a choice to add WA or add +primary to your empress equip, what would get you more damage?"
I assumed stuff like %atk and %primary would heavily influence that choice. I know it would vary person to person based on their own personal gears, but
K = primary / w.atk
Doesn't include those.
WA vs Primary stat - Stereo - 2012-03-06
Ah, yeah... it's just base + gear + MW for those. So you end up with primary stats being pretty useful. I think on my Paladin it's only about 3.5 to 1 atk and I don't have crazy w.atk gear.
WA vs Primary stat - Shidoshi - 2012-03-07
You just need to compare them before the %stats and %watk apply. Meaning that those do not affect the ratio.
WA vs Primary stat - CarrionCrow - 2012-03-07
As it is now, my Blade Master needs roughly 3 LUK to beat 1 W ATT. I have full Empress set unscrolled save for the weapon. I have a high amount of W ATT as a DB and my % LUK is high too, so my W ATT to main ratio is different from say an archer with corresponding gear . I have a feeling that a perfectly LUK scrolled overall would be a better bet for me than chaosing it (due to luck issues), but the rest of the items would be more beneficial to chaos.
If you are a cheater running around with duped high attack items, it would probably be in favour of main stat more than W ATT, but I like to asume that most people stay away from that cesspool.
WA vs Primary stat - Kaasoljoyyx - 2012-03-07
Well let me run this scenario by you. Say you have 200% luk and 0% w.atk due to just having total dmg/boss/ignore/%luk etc on your weapons.
You scroll your overall with 30% luk and you get 5 luk. That's really 5 + 10 luk or 15 luk for 1 scroll, vs maybe +1 w.atk from a chaos scroll.
Should that +1 w.atk be compared to 5 luk or 15 luk? I'm starting to think almost everything should be scrolled for main stat on empress gear except for
shoes: if you can get shoe atk scrolls
weapon: obvious
glove: obvious
WA vs Primary stat - Stereo - 2012-03-07
You can compare it to 15 luk out of your total luk, or 5 luk out of your base+mw+regular bonuses.
Like how for me it'd be 5 str out of ~1000 (830 base + 170) or 8 str out of ~1600 (62% str). It works out the same either way, you multiply both numbers by the same thing (%stat).
WA vs Primary stat - Shidoshi - 2012-03-07
Stereo Wrote:You can compare it to 15 luk out of your total luk, or 5 luk out of your base+mw+regular bonuses.
Like how for me it'd be 5 str out of ~1000 (830 base + 170) or 8 str out of ~1600 (62% str). It works out the same either way, you multiply both numbers by the same thing (%stat).
What Stereo is saying is that you should compare the ratio 5luk/(base+mw+regular) to 1atk/totalAtk, or 15luk/totalLuk to 1atk/totalAtk. And it would be the same thing.
This doesn't give you directly the luk/atk ratio, though.
WA vs Primary stat - Kaasoljoyyx - 2012-03-07
Ah I get it now. Definitely helps me out so I don't have to waste so much money trying to chaos things when I'll get a competitive range just by using regular 30/60/50%s on things. So if I'm understanding this correctly, classes such as warriors + dual blades whose weapons have a much higher base attack than say pirates + NLs will naturally get more range with +5 stat than the latter assuming their base + equip + mw stats are roughly the same.
WA vs Primary stat - ShinkuDragon - 2012-03-07
Kaasoljoyyx Wrote:Ah I get it now. Definitely helps me out so I don't have to waste so much money trying to chaos things when I'll get a competitive range just by using regular 30/60/50%s on things. So if I'm understanding this correctly, classes such as warriors + dual blades whose weapons have a much higher base attack than say pirates + NLs will naturally get more range with +5 stat than the latter assuming their base + equip + mw stats are roughly the same.
considering the amount of attack all classes can get nowadays... i wouldn't simply count the weapon. but indeed.
i'm thinking of chaosing overalls until i get 5+ attack from the first scroll, then str-scrolling it.
WA vs Primary stat - Stereo - 2012-03-07
Kaasoljoyyx Wrote:So if I'm understanding this correctly, classes such as warriors + dual blades whose weapons have a much higher base attack than say pirates + NLs will naturally get more range with +5 stat than the latter assuming their base + equip + mw stats are roughly the same.
Characters with similar item availability (weapon only vs. weapon+shield, overall vs. top+bottom) will get about the same range per stat, but ones with higher basic attack get less per attack.
Two characters with ~3000 luk would both see the same damage increase from +30 luk (proportionally around 1% more damage). If one has 250 and the other has 400 attack, then +30 attack helps the lower attack one much more.