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+--- Thread: Nexon: Can and Can't. (/showthread.php?tid=48601)
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Nexon: Can and Can't. - Zepherium - 2011-11-04
I posted this at the official forums as well but it stands the same here.
Before ranting, allow me to be wrong if I do.
Current situation
First I'd like to address the current situation. There's nothing Nexon themselves can do at this point depending on how massive the network outage is. If it's local, they can hire in technicians to solve it (obviously to a certain point!).
But, if it's not connected to their servers but rather the connection between them and their ISP they're sitting ducks. A solid example would be if some underground-worker manages to cut their network line. Alas, they'll have to wait for the appropriate company to handle it (Most likely the ISP, internet server provider).
Hacking situation
Keep in mind that, even though Nexon Co. Ltd. is a video game developer - it resides in South Korea. The NA version is most likely handled by Nexon as a publisher, not developer. So there's some things they can do, and some things they can't. And this is the part that's most important - they cannot alter game code. They're stuck with what they have.
What they can do,
* Alter information (monsters, quests, items). Most likely was the Halloween event going on right now created at Nexon America.
* Alter data (userdata, access levels (banned, GMs and so fourth)).
Which brings me to the item duping. They can most likely search for items using their IDs and see what everyone has. But depending on the database they're using they might not be able to add specific conditions to search, such as, item stats. So while they can list everyone owning a particular item, they may not be able to find the duped/bugged/hacked ones without looking manually at all the current ones.
What they can't do,
* Alter the game code. And by that I mean adding new functions to the server or client. So even if we know that eg. Duey is flawed, they can't do anything other than disabling him because that the functions that Duey uses are the thing they can't change.
So instead of complaining all the time, keep in mind that there are certain factors they can't do anything about. They're all humans and they got a huge collection of games, Maplestory being the biggest most likely, and therefor a huge playerbase. Addressing all of them is hard, and they are hiring all the time so if you want to make a difference - why not apply for a job?
~ Axel.
Nexon: Can and Can't. - MuscleWizard - 2011-11-04
oh boy a white knight
while you may be right, that still doesn't excuse their absolutely HORRIBLE customer service.
Nexon: Can and Can't. - Panacea - 2011-11-04
MuscleWizard Wrote:while you may be right, that still doesn't excuse their absolutely HORRIBLE customer service.
Going to have to agree on this point.
You brought up some interesting ideas, and hopefully this turns into a good debate.
Nexon: Can and Can't. - Zepherium - 2011-11-04
MuscleWizard Wrote:oh boy a white knight
while you may be right, that still doesn't excuse their absolutely HORRIBLE customer service.
Absolutely not. I myself believe they need to increase their staff quite a bit. But the post should explain some things for people who keeps bashing them in vain.
Nexon: Can and Can't. - Exidous - 2011-11-04
At the point where there is exclusive server content, they need exclusive server coders. If they want Nexam to just be hime in a closet, then it really should just be a carbon copy of KMS, to eliminate all the hideous screwups that the differences cause.
Nexon: Can and Can't. - Zepherium - 2011-11-04
Exidous Wrote:At the point where there is exclusive server content, they need exclusive server coders. If they want Nexam to just be hime in a closet, then it really should just be a carbon copy of KMS, to eliminate all the hideous screwups that the differences cause.
They're stuck with what they have sadly. So if the functions are bugged or doesn't fit their needs exactly there's going to be hick-ups like now.
Nexon: Can and Can't. - KhainiWest - 2011-11-04
lol'd at last one
Nexon: Can and Can't. - Viaje - 2011-11-04
Zepherium Wrote:if you want to make a difference - why not apply for a job?Lulz. Really?
Why did it ever become habitual to suggest that customers fix a company's problems?
"I DON'T SEE YOU TRYING TO RUN A (INSERT ENDEAVOR HERE) LIKE (INSERT COMPANY HERE). YOU THINK YOU CAN DO BETTER?"
Um, no, you don't see me trying, but, if you're going to do it, you better not suck at it.
Your post is just being apologetic for Nexon.
Their theoretic inability to alter the code in a serious way does not excuse them.
Fact is, they should be able to make such changes.
If they're publishing the game, they should have some means of upkeep since MMOs, and especially ones that involve investment of real-life money, simply shouldn't be published with an "as-is" policy.
You also dismiss the fact that GMS has made many, many posts that insinuate or out-rightly said that their team consists of developers.
If they're telling the truth, they should be able to make changes.
If they're lying, then people who take their words at face-value aren't crazy for assuming that they can make alterations.
A corporation has a responsibility to support its products and the consumers of those products.
If there is any lacking in that ability, it's the company's job to fill those holes, not a customer's job to just shut up and take it.
Oh, and this:
Hime Wrote:I would definitely love to but regardless it doesn't excuse the issues that we have so if I sticky this post it will seem that way.
You're being more apologetic for the company than one of it's own employees (and Hime has consequently gotten some respect points from me for saying that nothing you've said excuses them).
Nexon: Can and Can't. - KhainiWest - 2011-11-04
Also like to point out Eos has personally offered to volunteer to do what you suggested and they gave him a generic email for advertising if I recall, he'll correct me no doubt lol. That and most of us don't want to move out to california just to pursue a dead on job.
Nexon: Can and Can't. - Worthyness - 2011-11-04
Their company/player personnel are really bad at the whole responding thing. As a worker in the support sector, I understand how hard it is to say absolutely nothing in a way that will/maybe give the customers some closure/settle their minds a little bit. But even so, -Hime-'s responses are really really bad sometimes and do absolutely nothing but make her sound like an incompetent idiot that doesn't even know the game that she's moderating for. Robot responses only get you so far and it's times like now that you REALLY need a good customer service/support team. Relay some information even if it's non-information.
If you know something about the problem, give an update. If you don't know what the hell is going on, pretend like you do. Don't give false truths, but extend the real answer. Don't know when the servers are going to go up? Then say that- "At this moment, we do not have an accurate time stamp on when the servers will be back online. We apologize for the down time, but this is a very serious issue that we would like to take as much time as we need to get it fixed. You will be updated as soon as anything changes" Unfortunately for nexon, their support team probably can't even fix the problem and their fix will likely break something else, so I feel the opportunity to do this has already flown out the window. Is it too late to save it? No. Can it be saved? Maybe. But then this breaks into the discussion of content and ways to attract more players without insulting the NX whores, but that's a different issue for a later time.
Nexon: Can and Can't. - Zepherium - 2011-11-04
Viaje Wrote:Lulz. Really?
Why did it ever become habitual to suggest that customers fix a company's problems?
Your post is just being apologetic for Nexon.
Their theoretic inability to alter the code in a serious way does not excuse them.
Fact is, they should be able to make such changes.
If they're publishing the game, they should have some means of upkeep since MMOs, and especially ones that involve investment of real-life money, simply shouldn't be published with an "as-is" policy.
You also dismiss the fact that GMS has made many, many posts that insinuate or out-rightly said that their team consists of developers.
If they're telling the truth, they should be able to make changes.
If they're lying, then people who take their words at face-value aren't crazy for assuming that they can make alterations.
A corporation has a responsibility to support its products and the consumers of those products.
If there is any lacking in that ability, it's the company's job to fill those holes, not a customer's job to just shut up and take it.
Their theoretic inability to alter the code is what excuses them, that is the whole point of the post!
It's not as easy as just "handing the code over" to their company overseas. You really need to learn to separate publishers from game developers.
Yes they have a team of content developers, questions?
Yes, as a company they have a responsibility to their customers to-do what you as the customer has agreed upon. Have you read the TOS?
Nexon: Can and Can't. - Viaje - 2011-11-04
KhainiWest Wrote:Also like to point out Eos has personally offered to volunteer to do what you suggested. That and most of us don't want to move out to california just to pursue a dead on job.Yarp.
It's an awful suggestion anyway.
If someone orders a pizza from Dominoes, and the delivery service sucks, are you going to suggest they go apply to Dominoes to make the world a better place?
I think not.
Zepherium Wrote:Their theoretic inability to alter the code is what excuses them, that is the whole point of the post!Then your entire post is indeed bullpomegranate because it wouldn't excuse them, even if it were true.
Zepherium Wrote:It's not as easy as just "handing the code over" to their company overseas. You really need to learn to separate publishers from game developers.What leads you to believe I don't know the distinction? Because I certainly do.
Zepherium Wrote:Yes they have a team of content developers, questions?I'm pretty sure developing content involves altering the code. Questions?
Zepherium Wrote:Yes, as a company they have a responsibility to their customers to-do what you as the customer has agreed upon. Have you read the TOS?You must be new here. We don't pretend as if that is a meaningful document because it isn't.
But, yes, I have. Every word, many times.
And, no, a company's obligation to its consumers is not limited to what has been written down.
Nexon: Can and Can't. - Zepherium - 2011-11-04
Viaje Wrote:Yarp.
It's an awful suggestion anyway.
If someone orders a pizza from Dominoes, and the delivery service sucks, are you going to suggest they go apply to Dominoes to make the world a better place?
I think not.
Wasn't a suggestion really, merely a way to explain to everyone complaining that if they want to help, apply.
Nexon: Can and Can't. - Viaje - 2011-11-04
Zepherium Wrote:Wasn't a suggestion really, merely a way to explain to everyone complaining that if they want to help, apply.We're helping by virtue of the fact that we're voicing our opinions.
Democracy at work and all that.
Nexon: Can and Can't. - Zepherium - 2011-11-04
Viaje Wrote:Yarp.
Yes it would explain it. A publisher doesn't have to handle the costs of creating a game, merely maintaining it. Alas, it's more cost-effective having one branch (Korea) handle the creation instead of spurring off different copies.
Viaje Wrote:I'm pretty sure developing content involves altering the code. Questions?In what way? Adding content as in quests, graphics, items and so fourth hasn't anything to-do with the server nor client structure. Then again, I suppose you haven't a clue of what I'm speaking of.
The TOS might be bullpomegranate for most of you but it's there so Nexon doesn't have to take any liability for their actions regarding certain things. It's a way to protect themselves, so it doesn't matter if you ignore it or not - it's still valid.
Nexon: Can and Can't. - SuperKoopa - 2011-11-04
Before this continues any further, this has to be said. Yes their customer service is horrid, and yes their other teams are lacking as well, but that's not what the start of the problem is. They're understaffed and underpaid so the CEOs can keep as much money as they can for themselves. Before you start blaming the people that actually run the game, think about how hard it normally is to run a huge game like MS, along with all the other games Nexon runs. Then multiply that difficulty for every employee they don't have, but need. You can't run smoothly if everyone in the office is doing two or three jobs each. If you're going to blame anyone, don't blame the people that are actually trying their best, blame the corrupt figureheads that are ruining the company with their greed.
Nexon: Can and Can't. - Viaje - 2011-11-04
Zepherium Wrote:Yes it would explain it. A publisher doesn't have to handle the costs of creating a game, merely maintaining it. Alas, it's more cost-effective having one branch (Korea) handle the creation instead of spurring off different copies.And we're all to conclude that just because a method is more cost-effective, a company should utilize that method, regardless of the effect on the end
Zepherium Wrote:In what way? Adding content as in quests, graphics, items and so fourth hasn't anything to-do with the server nor client structure. Then again, I suppose you haven't a clue of what I'm speaking of.Yeah, I'm not surprised that you're going to just assume I don't understand you. It makes it a tad easier for you to presume your argument to be infallible.
However, back in reality, a game modification doesn't have to alter the client-server interaction to qualify as modifying the code.
Zepherium Wrote:The TOS might be bullpomegranate for most of you but it's there so Nexon doesn't have to take any liability for their actions regarding certain things. It's a way to protect themselves, so it doesn't matter if you ignore it or not - it's still valid.A TOS' existence does not in itself make it a bonding contract. There are several clauses within Nexon's TOS that would not hold up in a court of law.
Again, you must be new here. (Now with a shiny link that you should follow.)
SuperKoopa Wrote:Before this continues any further, this has to be said. Yes their customer service is horrid, and yes their other teams are lacking as well, but that's not what the start of the problem is. They're understaffed and underpaid so the CEOs can keep as much money as they can for themselves. Before you start blaming the people that actually run the game, think about how hard it normally is to run a huge game like MS, along with all the other games Nexon runs. Then multiply that difficulty for every employee they don't have, but need. You can't run smoothly if everyone in the office is doing two or three jobs each. If you're going to blame anyone, don't blame the people that are actually trying their best, blame the corrupt figureheads that are ruining the company with their greed.I blame the company as a whole, and that covers my bases.
For all your speculation, not even you know what point in the chain is most to blame for the situation as it is now.
Nexon: Can and Can't. - SaptaZapta - 2011-11-04
Zepherium Wrote:Wasn't a suggestion really, merely a way to explain to everyone complaining that if they want to help, apply.
Uh, no?
To make an extreme analogy: If my local hospital has patients dying like flies, should I apply to work there if I have no medical knowledge?
Does my lack of medical knowledge disqualify me from observing the place must be run all wrong?
No and no. I can and should protest as much as I can and demand they replace their incompetent staff with better people.
It is not necessary to be able and willing to do a better job myself. It is only necessary to know that a better job can be done. And there are plentiful examples for that.
Nexon: Can and Can't. - KhainiWest - 2011-11-04
Zepherium Wrote:Yes it would explain it. A publisher doesn't have to handle the costs of creating a game, merely maintaining it. Alas, it's more cost-effective having one branch (Korea) handle the creation instead of spurring off different copies.
In what way? Adding content as in quests, graphics, items and so fourth hasn't anything to-do with the server nor client structure. Then again, I suppose you haven't a clue of what I'm speaking of.
The TOS might be bullpomegranate for most of you but it's there so Nexon doesn't have to take any liability for their actions regarding certain things. It's a way to protect themselves, so it doesn't matter if you ignore it or not - it's still valid.
Well there goes your credibility.
Nexon: Can and Can't. - Exidous - 2011-11-04
Zepherium Wrote:They're stuck with what they have sadly.Then their past failures and mistakes continue to cripple them.
I can understand why Nexon wants to save money by using satellite offices instead of actual dev teams for each region. But in that case they should have restricted the region differentiation to just localization and policing. You cant spend a period of time making code unique to a certain region, and then completely neglect it in favor of copy and pasting from the actual developers. When you do, you get game breaking inconsistencies, things like CWKPQ dupeapoloza. It's completely unacceptable and an ongoing source of many problems. It's not just a PR problem like hideously bad customer service, it's an ongoing corporate issue. It's bad organization and bad product design.