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+--- Thread: Accuracy + Exp Gain Parabola (/showthread.php?tid=44414)
Accuracy + Exp Gain Parabola - Problem. - 2011-07-14
So I decided to do some # crunching to determine the optimal monsters to be training on, based on accuracy and level. Initially, I had figured the shape of my discovery would be a parabola with a peak, and my initial thought was confirmed by my number crunching. So heres the method I used:
Using the Accuracy formula:
((sqrt(Player Accuracy) - sqrt (Mob Avoid)) + 100) = Hit Rate
If Hit Rate > 100, then Hit Rate = 100
Then Hit Rate - (2 * ((Mob Level) - (Player Level))) = Hit Percentage
Values and formula are used based on current assumptions from the Maple Community.
After those things were calculated, I calculated Hit Percentage on monsters that were higher level. In my example, I took my Level 77 Wind Archer, and calculated exp gains up to 20 levels greater than me. Exp gains hit a peak when the mob level reached 19 levels higher than player level, and began sloping down once mob level reached 20 levels higher than player. This is of course with an Archer, that has a lot of Dex and Accuracy, so in the formula above, Hit Rate would always be 100, and Hit Percentage would always be the 2 * Difference in Levels of Monster and Player.
In my calculations, I also assumed that I was capable of 1-hitting everything, so in a non-hypothetical situation, the peak of exp gains will most likely be lower than the 19 level difference in my example.
I'm currently looking for a way to incorporate damage and monster HP in to the calculations to create a more accurate/realistic parabola. If anyone has any ideas, or wants to help, let me know.
Accuracy + Exp Gain Parabola - octopusprime - 2011-07-15
I have a few ideas too tired to relate them coherently so ill go over this tomorrow.
Accuracy + Exp Gain Parabola - hadriel - 2011-07-15
Tried working on it previously, but realised that it's a little too complex for me to handle on excel.
Essentially, this is what I thought about: it depends on your damage output per attack before considering accuracy (DPS is not an accurate data here), HP of monster, and working out the number of attacks needed to kill a mob for a given significance e.g. 95% of the time, then working out how much time is needed for an optimal attacking situation e.g. fully lured and just spamming that attack, and from there work out average EXP gain per unit time.
So naturally, it also depends on your damage range e.g. overdamaging is pointless so you should move up to a monster that you can maximise your damage for a highest 1HKO chance, thereby increasing your EXP gain by X% compared to a Y% miss rate+Z% HKO>1 (this Z% part should be a geometric progression I think?).
That said, it makes misting very viable again.
A good starting point would be the Aran and XBow calculators found somewhere for pre-BB patch, and changing the numbers for accuracy, HP of mob etc etc. Again this is just paperwork - mob spawn and map layout matters too thus it also affects your skill usage and optimisation (and also therefore SP allocations).
Hadriel
Accuracy + Exp Gain Parabola - Problem. - 2011-07-15
hadriel Wrote:Tried working on it previously, but realised that it's a little too complex for me to handle on excel.
Essentially, this is what I thought about: it depends on your damage output per attack before considering accuracy (DPS is not an accurate data here), HP of monster, and working out the number of attacks needed to kill a mob for a given significance e.g. 95% of the time, then working out how much time is needed for an optimal attacking situation e.g. fully lured and just spamming that attack, and from there work out average EXP gain per unit time.
So naturally, it also depends on your damage range e.g. overdamaging is pointless so you should move up to a monster that you can maximise your damage for a highest 1HKO chance, thereby increasing your EXP gain by X% compared to a Y% miss rate+Z% HKO>1 (this Z% part should be a geometric progression I think?).
That said, it makes misting very viable again.
A good starting point would be the Aran and XBow calculators found somewhere for pre-BB patch, and changing the numbers for accuracy, HP of mob etc etc. Again this is just paperwork - mob spawn and map layout matters too thus it also affects your skill usage and optimisation (and also therefore SP allocations).
Hadriel
Yeah, I def was thinking about all of that and how to put that all in to excel. The only way I could see something like this feasible is if you make a fully customize-able calculator, because in effect, everyone's "optimal" training monster wont be the same because of their damage.
It shouldn't be a geometric progression on a by level basis. It should be a negative parabola with there being one peak, on a by level basis. What I mean is, there should be one monster, every level, that you can gain the most exp on if you can one hit.
Like I said in my example, I assumed that I could one-hit everything, and the calculations stated that monsters that were 19 levels above me, I would be getting the best exp, however, at the 20th level, I wouldn't be getting optimal returns because of the misses.
Anyways, back to the calculator, it would have to somehow incorporate exactly how each profession trains during every level, have to have every professions damage formula, average damage per hit, then that average would have to matched with a monster that has the closest hp, but under that average damage value. All of this would be in highly ideal situations, it would then be up to the user of the calculator to take the information, and use knowledge of map layout/spawn etc, to determine where best to train. Essentially, the calculator would give the best recommendations, possibly top 5 recommendations.
Accuracy + Exp Gain Parabola - octopusprime - 2011-07-15
I was not thinking an excell thing because it won't work for everyone. Just a formula would be more flexible and people would have to find one variable for themselves. The variable they would have to find for themselves is some representation of their damage against any given mob. Ideally this would be some representation of the mean of their damage range. So part of doing this easily will be making this number easy to find. Is there a damage reduction per level when hitting mobs of a higher level in Chaos as well? Mob density will also be a factor so really people should view the results as a range and just pick the best resulting map within a certain range It may not be the strongest mob they could effectively train on, but a good map is often for many classes a big advantage. Mobs where a majority will always be 1 hits when they land or where it is a 2 hit when almost always hitting an average that is as little above 50% of the given mobs health are also both probably viable and potentially efficient training options depending on the players strength.
I think after this formula is nailed down more or less we could then try and graph it. (monster level - character level)x2 = percent chance to deal 0 damage is the easy part of the formula.
Accuracy + Exp Gain Parabola - Stereo - 2011-07-15
Multi-hit skills work differently with regard to accuracy too. If you have a 4-hit skill and miss 25% of the time, then you could calculate your 3-hit damage and go for something that's 1hko'd by that.
Accuracy + Exp Gain Parabola - SlugThings - 2011-07-17
Have you considered hit-rate's effect on Shadow Partner? When your "main" hit misses, Shadow Partner deals one damage. In addition to that, Shadow Partner's hit has its own chance to miss, as well. Basically, miss rates hurt Thieves more than other classes.
Accuracy + Exp Gain Parabola - octopusprime - 2011-07-17
Stereo Wrote:Multi-hit skills work differently with regard to accuracy too. If you have a 4-hit skill and miss 25% of the time, then you could calculate your 3-hit damage and go for something that's 1hko'd by that.
A formual would still give people a good idea of where above their level they can train. Multi hit skills would just have to err on the side of caution to protect some of their consistency in HTK.