If you have any idea's / corrections / comments to post, please do so!

Devil Wrote:- Captains can use Cannon forever, Rapid Fire will be added if I know bullets / minute of that skill.

KaidaTan Wrote:You did Critical for Bowmasters and Marksmen wrong. You have their crits doing 240% damage, which is only +140% from normal. SE crits are actually much higher than that. Crit arrows with SE do +240%, so 340% damage per arrow.

Archers
Bowmaster - Hurricane + Critical + SE:
- 55% > 340%
- 45% > 100%
-- 100% = 232%

Marksman - Strafe + Critical + SE:
- 55% > 1360%
- 45% > 400%
-- 100% = 928%

Oh, it looks like the damage for NLs is messed up too. Lemmie fix that.

Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical (50% critical rate):
- 50% > 1875%
- 50% > 1125%
-- 100% = 1500%

And here's with SE
Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical +SE:
- 65% > 2925%
- 35% > 1125%
-- 100% = 2295%

Devil's Sunrise Wrote:Calculations - 2 have a major bug.

[(STR * 4.6 + DEX) / 100] * Weapon Attack

If you multiply that with 5 and divide by 4.6, you'll get a higher percentage than you should have because of the dex. You have to inject the 5.0 multiplier directly into the main stat.


But what I don't get, is what this thread is for. Uhm, well, I do, somewhat, but could you just explain it to me?

Devil Wrote:With critical:
- 3x 150% + 3x100% = 750%
- Shadow Partner > 750 * 1.5 = 1125%
Without critical:
- 3x 150% = 450%
- Shadow Partner > 450 * 1.5 = 675%


And uhm about Triple Throw + SE, how much is each hit then?
- 150% = basic
- 250% = normal critical
But:
- 250*1.4 = 350% = SE critical?
- 250+140 = 390% = SE critical?
- 250+240 = 480% = SE critical?

Explain plz!

Quote:First, the thread is for anyone who's interested, and it came out of my interest to compare Pirates' Demolition / Cannon VS other classes damage per second... Now with these calculations I for myself could see they're indeed VERY overpowered compared to other classes, so there you have your reason... .

Second, no they're not incorrect. Let me explain:
- I used a 5.0 stat multiplier as reference for a 100% measurement:
--> 5.0x = 5.0/5.0 = 100%
--> 4.6x = 4.6/5.0 = 92%

Meaning, if a DPM value of e.g. 100.000% should be compared from a 4.6 to a 5.0 multiplier, you should multiply 100.000 by 0.92 (= 92.000%, ya for real ). This to balance out the classes main stat has the same meaning to the attack's DPM stat.

Can't explain it any more clear then that... it's just how it works with comparing...

Devil Wrote:Ok fixed Bowmasters / Marksmen! Haha just totally forgot that it worked that way!

But about Triple Throw, no I used the correct value's! So damage without SE = Correct

With critical:
- 3x 150% + 3x100% = 750%
- Shadow Partner > 750 * 1.5 = 1125%
Without critical:
- 3x 150% = 450%
- Shadow Partner > 450 * 1.5 = 675%


And uhm about Triple Throw + SE, how much is each hit then?
- 150% = basic
- 250% = normal critical
But:
- 250*1.4 = 350% = SE critical?
- 250+140 = 390% = SE critical?
- 250+240 = 480% = SE critical?

Explain plz!

Devil Wrote:Second, no they're not incorrect. Let me explain:
- I used a 5.0 stat multiplier as reference for a 100% measurement:
--> 5.0x = 5.0/5.0 = 100%
--> 4.6x = 4.6/5.0 = 92%

Meaning, if a DPM value of e.g. 100.000% should be compared from a 4.6 to a 5.0 multiplier, you should multiply 100.000 by 0.92 (= 92.000%, ya for real ). This to balance out the classes main stat has the same meaning to the attack's DPM stat.

Can't explain it any more clear then that... it's just how it works with comparing...

Dusk Wrote:That one. .65*390 + .35*150 = 306%.

Quote:Now that I understand your thread a little better, let me point out something. You completely ignore minimum damage. That's a big flaw. Most classes have 60% mastery, meaning .6*.9 = 54% of their main stat multiplier in minimum damage. NLs have 50% a main stat multiplier in minimum damage. Archers have 81% from Bow Expertise/Marksman Boost. DrKs have 72%. This changes your comparisons around by a lot. And I've ignored secondary stat damage bonuses. Better to run the real formulas.

Quote:Edit: Hmm. And what of secondary stats? Thieves would be weaker in this aspect because they need a lot of dex to equip their weapons, and archers would be slightly weaker too. Or do we assume that everyone has no equipment scrolled for their main stat and their secondary stat is buffed just enough to equip their weapon?

Finally, a 20 att shield seems kind of high. Since most classes have 7 slot shields, I think it'd be more appropriate to use 14.

Stereo Wrote:The Night Lord is using a clean claw (54 atk) where the other classes get scrolled ones.
It should have 130 w.atk.

Maxed Advance Combo is 190%, not 150%, so bump up the Hero quite a bit too.

KaidaTan Wrote:[...]

Night Lord - Triple Throw + SP + Critical +SE:
- 65% > 1755%
- 35% > 1125%
-- 100% = 1377%

Oh also, I would suggest doing DPS instead of DPM. DPS is a more practical, more usable number that is more easily compared to other classes. DPM is too large to be practical or to make sense if you want to see how fast you kill a monster. It only really helps when comparing damage on bosses that have tons of HP and don't attack.

Devil's Sunrise Wrote:Whoops, I misread. It would still be incorrect though.

set str 700 and dex 100

[(700 * 5.0 + 100) / 100] * 100 = 3600 (given damage)

[(700 * 4.6 + 100) / 100] * 100 = 3320 (exact damage)

3600 * 4.6/5 = 3312 (calculated damage by your way)

But well, yeah, it's only an approximation I'd assume, so it doesn't matter that much

Russt Wrote:Still, might as well use the real formulas, since it's not that much more effort anyway.

Also, calculating DPM your way allows for rounding error. For example, you state MM strafe as 83/minute, yet it's really 83.333/minute.

A much cleaner way is just to do the following:
(damage per 'combo') / (seconds per 'combo')

So strafe in damage % would be:
928% / 0.72s = 1288%/s.

Quote:Secondary stats hardly add to damage, and if you mean one class needs more secondary stats to wear item, that's true, i'll look into it how to add it to the stats. However, the higher lvl you get to, the less it matters...

Dusk Wrote:Cool, now those numbers are looking realistic. Heroes still look a bit low, though. Not sure what's going on there.

Edit: Actually, that does make sense. Kind of unfair for a skill that can hit 3 targets to outdamage every single-target skill except TT+SE.


I have 100 STR. That's worth 29 dex when you examine max damage and 54 dex when you examine min damage. For average damage, my 100 STR is worth about 38 dex. Considering that 38 dex makes more of a difference on my damage than MW9, and is the main factor in making normal BMs outdamage STRless, I think the secondary stat is pretty important. It'd be most important for archers and Shadowers, and kind of noticeable for warriors depending on how much dex they have.

JoeTang Wrote:You realize that your 100 STR is worth 96 DEX to a STR-Less Archer?

Afrobean Wrote:I was going to make a subclass comparison like this for Magicians, but now that you've done this, I fear I wouldn't generate compatible information. So instead I demand that you add Magicians here, definitely Mages at the very least.

Really, this would do more to help my cause too. Putting it side by side with the other classes would point out that an Arch Mage at full potential isn't quite as bad at single target as everyone thinks. I'd also like to see different sets computed for Mages based on their different attacks and how many they're hitting at once.

Also: since when is "damage per minute" a standard of measurement? Things like this more often work by a "damage per second" standard. Furthermore, punching it down to smaller numbers makes it easier to understand the variances in averages. And along this line, I'd also like to point out that certain skills need to be computed on an average basis based on how long the skills are able to be used or how often they can be used. Think about Pirates, they can't use their transformed states constantly. Other skills have cooldowns or require combos to be built up.