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+---- Thread: Big Bang: The Ugly Truth (/showthread.php?tid=26845)
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Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - FrozNlite - 2010-06-22
While all Magicians rejoice and fill the world's oceans with their joy, I feel as though many people don't fully understand how the skill Big Bang operates in the environment of the game. It's a very different skill, yet carries some ugly "side effects" that may change the opinions of those screaming "zomg new bossing skill!!11one." Let's get started:
First off, Big Bang finally had a range change in KMST (from what it appears in the now-famous screenshot of the 124 LOLFP at Buffys). This is fantastic, as the current range of the skill is about the same as Angel Ray's new KMST range - 120%ish, aka utter crap. Cross your fingers they don't nerf this change.
Secondly, the skill is a charge-up skill. While this is obvious, it plays a role in exactly how you're using it. Thankfully the charge-up time was decreased to ~1 second during the "first" balance patch (from ~3 seconds, mind you), so it's a lot easier to release big explosions of max damage. Still, it's not possible to spam the fully charged damage due to the charge requirement. You can spam the skill at a speed equivalent to Magic Claw cast rates, but it's the fully uncharged damage (to give an idea of values, my uncharged hits back when I was geared were ~15k, while my charged hits were ~85-88k).
Perhaps one of the biggest challenges is that you cannot teleport while charging or using the skill. Even though speed and jump affects walking speed while charging, the lack of a telecasting ability with this skill makes it a mite more difficult to time when training. It's not impossible, as several videos will show you, and as I will tell you myself after using the skill at O5 to farm PoTs, but it's not some godly map-decimating, telecasting skill like many are making it out to be.
What I believe is the most detrimental aspect of the skill (and which also happens to be one of the more subtle that most people don't notice unless they've physically tried BBing) is that the skill is neutralized in the air. In other words, if you were to release the charge upon jumping, the skill would dissipate. Even worse, if a mob kbs you the moment you release the charge (you're knocked an absolutely miniscule distance through the air backwards when kb'd), the skill dissipates as well. This has massive consequences for boss runs, in that people are constantly getting kb'd by attacks spanning the map nonstop (especially Horntail and Pink Bean). You literally have to have both feet firmly planted on the ground before releasing a charge in order for the charge to connect. Otherwise, it dissipates, and you get to spend another second recharging.
Air neutralization also makes jump casting excruciatingly difficult as compared to other skills.
So what does this all mean? Go pump a point into Big Bang if you want and see, but it's not as pretty as people think. For the skill to be as useful as we'd like with the new updates, the ability to teleport while charging (I'm thinking analogous to Battlemage's ability to teleport while in Tornado), as well as the ability to cast in midair are essential.
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - Cyanne - 2010-06-22
Yeah, the same thing with the knockback canceling happens with pierce too, it's really annoying. You'll just have to fire it off early or wait to see if you get hit or missed.
Also, I don't think big bang will end up as archmages' only decent mob skill, it's more of a thing to use when going up a rope, jumping down, or going through a warp, things that put you inside a mob of monsters since if you just tried to use it normally, you'd have to walk into mobs while charging or only make use of half its range.
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - Arroz - 2010-06-22
no QQin till this is in official KMS
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - Locked - 2010-06-22
Judging from your points, I'll say you've never trained an Evan.
They have charge-up skills they use for training and do just fine.
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - Alilatias - 2010-06-22
I thought Battlemages' ability to teleport while using Tornado was removed.
Locked Wrote:Judging from your points, I'll say you've never trained an Evan.
They have charge-up skills they use for training and do just fine.
That has nothing to do with Archmages' Big Bang. Besides, the ability for Evan to move while using a charge-up skill can be explained by the fact that it's the dragon casting everything, not Evan. Not to mention that at least Blizzard is one-directional, and it can still be released in mid-air with no problems, due to how the dragon works. Evan still can't telecast when charging up anyways (or at least he can't do that with Blizzard).
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - Phoenix Wright - 2010-06-22
Isn't Big Bang's charge time only .5 seconds?
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - Arroz - 2010-06-22
Alilatias Wrote:I thought Battlemages' ability to teleport while using Tornado was removed.Yep
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - Neothisis - 2010-06-22
I thought Pierce and BB had their charge ups removed? D=
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - FrozNlite - 2010-06-22
Locked Wrote:Judging from your points, I'll say you've never trained an Evan.
They have charge-up skills they use for training and do just fine.
My Evan is Lv. 32, so no, I haven't trained one with the charge up skills yet
.But this thread is not to say Magicians cannot train or boss with Big Bang (ex: it's currently LOLFPs best skill at Geist Balrog), but that it's not AS good as many are making it out to be, for the annoying subtleties outlined in my original post. Considering Paralyze got a nerf to 460% damage, and CL is at 400%, it will be interesting to see if ArchMages even HAVE an edge in single target DPS anymore considering Bishops have a lovely 630% AR.
EDIT: This thread is meant to explain how the skill works currently in all versions of MS aside from KMST, as well as factor in some of what we already know is changing. If I missed anything in various threads and didn't include it here, please post it, because I would like nothing more than to be proven wrong with how the skill is NOW working in KMST. But as far as I'm aware, it appears the annoying air neutralization is still around.
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - Locked - 2010-06-22
Alilatias Wrote:That has nothing to do with Archmages' Big Bang. Besides, the ability for Evan to move while using a charge-up skill can be explained by the fact that it's the dragon casting everything, not Evan. Not to mention that at least Blizzard is one-directional, and it can still be released in mid-air with no problems, due to how the dragon works. Evan still can't telecast when charging up anyways (or at least he can't do that with Blizzard).
Aside from the jumping aspect, everything is still the same in comparison to Big Bang.
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - rhpot03 - 2010-06-22
My bishop in GMS has level 30 BB. I agree that canceling when released in the air and the inability to teleport while charging really limits the usefulness of the skill. But a large part of the problem can be worked around by first taking damage and releasing BB during the invincibility frames. Coupled with the insane range increase in kmst (triple? quatriple?), I think the canceling problem would be minimal. (Also there won't be a way to manually cancel a charged BB anymore!)
But teleporting while having BB charged would be really nice
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - Kabanaw - 2010-06-22
FrozNlite Wrote:My Evan is Lv. 32, so no, I haven't trained one with the charge up skills yet
But this thread is not to say Magicians cannot train or boss with Big Bang (ex: it's currently LOLFPs best skill at Geist Balrog), but that it's not AS good as many are making it out to be, for the annoying subtleties outlined in my original post. Considering Paralyze got a nerf to 460% damage, and CL is at 400%, it will be interesting to see if ArchMages even HAVE an edge in single target DPS anymore considering Bishops have a lovely 630% AR.
EDIT: This thread is meant to explain how the skill works currently in all versions of MS aside from KMST, as well as factor in some of what we already know is changing. If I missed anything in various threads and didn't include it here, please post it, because I would like nothing more than to be proven wrong with how the skill is NOW working in KMST. But as far as I'm aware, it appears the annoying air neutralization is still around.
That's 530% on CL. And since CL casts 88 per minute while AR casts 76, the two about balance
as for F/Ps, they're not as fortunate with single target DPS now.
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - LegendGospel - 2010-06-22
So it's .5 seconds charge now? Or 1 second?
I never used Big Bang in my GMS Bishop before. Just put 1 point in it today (since we're probably getting a reset later anyway), and man... it is actually really annoying to not be able to telecast. SPECIALLY with Teleport Mastery, not being able to telecast will suck big time.
Even if we were able to telecast, jumpcast, and not getting the attack canceled by knockback, would Big Bang be a really good skill for bosses? I mean, compared to other jobs.
I really think magicians shouldn't depend on Big Bang to boss, anyway. Someone had an awesome idea for Chain Lightning: it hits 10 mobs, right? If there are 10 mobs, let it hit them. If there are 5, make the extra hits bounce on the enemies (2 hits to each of 5 enemies) If there are 2 enemies, same thing (5 hits to each of 2 enemies). If there's a single target boss, make it 10 hits on the boss. Same thing for Angel Ray, it's 630% to 4 enemies; if there are less than 4 enemies, make the % rise accordingly. Something similar for Paralyze too. THAT would make magicians unique and for the first time in Maple Story, able to boss. And Big Bang would become a secondary skill that can be used in the situations that Cyanne explained. But not a main attack, cause that's really dull... 3 jobs having the same main attack?
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - TøbiasBlack - 2010-06-22
sorry for the bit of a sidetrack/derailing, but about i/L AM's; i hear people mention that skill a lot. heres a thought/question: Does CL have a similar effect to poison where it causes residual damage to the opponent, and if not would that be something you all'd like to see added to give CL more usefulness to compete with a now-mobbing Paralyze?
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - Tikey - 2010-06-22
TøbiasBlack Wrote:sorry for the bit of a sidetrack/derailing, but about i/L AM's; i hear people mention that skill a lot. heres a thought/question: Does CL have a similar effect to poison where it causes residual damage to the opponent, and if not would that be something you all'd like to see added to give CL more usefulness to compete with a now-mobbing Paralyze?
Not exactly. CL is more like the mage version of Iron Arrow, where the damage decreases a certain amount after every monster it hits.
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - TøbiasBlack - 2010-06-22
Tikey Wrote:Not exactly. CL is more like the mage version of Iron Arrow, where the damage decreases a certain amount after every monster it hits.
yeah i know what it does, what i mean is this:
use skill -> damage is caused -> static effect triggers where the monsters receive x damage for x time -> monster eventually dies.
but it'd be like poison where it can only drop a monster to 1 HP and not outright kill it with the residual shock damage, only the initial attack or another attack.
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - John11 - 2010-06-22
LegendGospel Wrote:Someone had an awesome idea for Chain Lightning: it hits 10 mobs, right? If there are 10 mobs, let it hit them. If there are 5, make the extra hits bounce on the enemies (2 hits to each of 5 enemies) If there are 2 enemies, same thing (5 hits to each of 2 enemies). If there's a single target boss, make it 10 hits on the boss. Same thing for Angel Ray, it's 630% to 4 enemies; if there are less than 4 enemies, make the % rise accordingly. Something similar for Paralyze too. THAT would make magicians unique and for the first time in Maple Story, able to boss. And Big Bang would become a secondary skill that can be used in the situations that Cyanne explained. But not a main attack, cause that's really dull... 3 jobs having the same main attack?
I LOVE that idea and I really hope they do something like that. The current versions of paralyze and chain lightning will be good for training, but still seem useless for bossing in the big picture.
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - foxtales - 2010-06-22
I agree that Big Bang has it downsides, but its literally 50% stronger than Paralyze right now. The only purpose Paralyze would serve would be to freeze a mob before using BB to avoid the annoyances you've listed. It just all seems very illogical to me. :B
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - Kabanaw - 2010-06-22
LegendGospel Wrote:So it's .5 seconds charge now? Or 1 second?
I never used Big Bang in my GMS Bishop before. Just put 1 point in it today (since we're probably getting a reset later anyway), and man... it is actually really annoying to not be able to telecast. SPECIALLY with Teleport Mastery, not being able to telecast will suck big time.
Even if we were able to telecast, jumpcast, and not getting the attack canceled by knockback, would Big Bang be a really good skill for bosses? I mean, compared to other jobs.
I really think magicians shouldn't depend on Big Bang to boss, anyway. Someone had an awesome idea for Chain Lightning: it hits 10 mobs, right? If there are 10 mobs, let it hit them. If there are 5, make the extra hits bounce on the enemies (2 hits to each of 5 enemies) If there are 2 enemies, same thing (5 hits to each of 2 enemies). If there's a single target boss, make it 10 hits on the boss. Same thing for Angel Ray, it's 630% to 4 enemies; if there are less than 4 enemies, make the % rise accordingly. Something similar for Paralyze too. THAT would make magicians unique and for the first time in Maple Story, able to boss. And Big Bang would become a secondary skill that can be used in the situations that Cyanne explained. But not a main attack, cause that's really dull... 3 jobs having the same main attack?
I think that's a good idea, on one condition: The damage for both angel ray and paralyze decreases like CL on one mob. While CL would hit the most times, it would still do less damage because its damage reduces (unless that was changed this patch, in which case hell yeah, but that was more plausible when we still thought paralyze did 660% damage) . CL right now would do about 1700% damage on one mob with this system. Angel ray and paralyze would do 2520% and 2760% respectively.
Big Bang: The Ugly Truth - Dusk - 2010-06-22
Big Bang's ranged was buffed? You know the range is just glitched in GMS, right?