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+--- Thread: At what point does property cease to be yours? (/showthread.php?tid=24019)
At what point does property cease to be yours? - MasPan - 2010-03-29
[color="#cc8899"]Scenario 1: Love note in a garbage can
Ann writes a love note to Billy, but decides against giving it to him and throws it into a garbage can after crumpling it up. Tim sees the note in the garbage and is curious, pulls it out, and reads it. After reading, he decides to share it with his friends. Ann finds out after the note has been passed around the entire school and is, naturally, extremely upset, claiming the note was her property and Tim shouldn't have taken it from the garbage.
Is something discarded in a garbage can considered to be personal property?
Scenario 2: A hat left on a park bench
Tom goes to his favorite park to read in the shade of a nice oak tree. He takes off his hat and places it beside him, losing himself in the world of his novel. He finishes the book and leaves, forgetting his hat on the bench. A passerby a while later sees the unattended hat, with the park empty of visitors, and claims it for his own. Tom returns to the park later still to find it missing and is quite frustrated.
Is something forgotten in a public location (or left unattended in general) still considered to be personal property?
Scenario 3: A jacket with identifying initials on the tag is left on a bus
Jane boards a bus while wearing her favorite red jacket, the tag inscribed with her initials J.M.S. She falls asleep with the jacket next to her, and wakes when the bus reaches her stop. She exits, leaving the jacket behind on the seat by mistake. A few days later she realizes what has happened and contacts the driver, inquiring about the jacket. He hasn't noticed any jacket left on the seats, and tells her such. A week later Jane happens upon someone wearing an identical jacket on the same bus route, and asks, suspicious, where they bought it, and if she can try it on. While doing so she sees the initials J.M.S on the tag in her handwriting, and berates the other woman for taking it.
Does Jane have valid reason to continue claiming the jacket as hers? Is an identifiable object with unique characteristics left unattended in a public location (or transit service) still considered personal property?
What I'm getting at involves the concept of theft when items are abandoned (willfully or otherwise) in a public location, and the concept of "finders keepers." Is it theft to take a willfully discarded item? Is it theft to take an obviously abandoned item, willfully or otherwise? Does the ability to identify an item without seeing it or it being described obligate the return of said item? If you found something, and someone later was able to describe it to you without seeing it, would you give it to them?[/COLOR]
At what point does property cease to be yours? - xLeviathan - 2010-03-29
Enough results and no replies.
I don't consider any of it personal property at that point. If you lose it/leave it and someone picks it up, tough luck. However, the owner should reserve the right to actively work towards obtaining that item back if they can prove it's theirs...
Why should it be theft if you left it anywho.
I've been told by my relative that it used to be, "If it's in or on my property, it IS my property." Just to add that in there, to maybe give a little more. :<
EDIT: In case you're drawing conclusion, I have sticky fingers. >...>
At what point does property cease to be yours? - Fiel - 2010-03-29
I suggest you read the Halakha, a part of Jewish law, that specifically addresses lost property. American law, though, divides lost property into four possible types:
Abandoned Property - Property left with the intention of terminating that property (in a garbage can, at a trash compactor, in a bin labeled for incineration) (Should go to nobody - should not be taken at all)
Lost property - Property that is accidentally left behind due to carelessness (goes to new owner - whoever claims it)
Mislaid Property - A place where the owner intentionally puts it to begin with but later forgets its location (should go to original owner - answers about jacket "J.M.S.")
Treasure Trove - A place where the owner intentionally puts it, forgets about it, and is nowhere to be found when the new owner attempts to claim it (Should go to new owner)
Consider this:
A land owner A is selling his land to person B. After person B buys the home and owns the tax, title, and ownership rights, he begins to renovate the new home. After one month, he finds that there are old government bonds which are now worth over $12,000. Once A hears about this (who knows how or why he heard - besides the point), he immediately sues to reclaim the property from B. A claims that the property belonged to him. B claims that it went with the house and that A had obviously forgotten about it if he didn't know there was $12,000 in bonds still in the house. The court system ruled in favor of B, stating that A had plenty of time with which to remove his things from the house. By not removing these things in such a time, that means the original owner forgot and therefore this is a Treasure Trove, not a Mislaid Property.
At what point does property cease to be yours? - MasPan - 2010-03-29
Fiel Wrote:Abandoned Property - Property left with the intention of terminating that property (in a garbage can, at a trash compactor, in a bin labeled for incineration) (Should go to nobody - should not be taken at all)[color="#cc8899"]
So would this imply that it's illegal for a person to take an item from a garbage can for their personal use?
1. If the garbage is on private property, it can be argued as trespassing or invasion of privacy I guess
2. If the garbage is on public property or a workspace inhabited by several people (park, classroom, office)
3. If a garbage truck operator decides to dig through the garbage that is already in his truck and finds something, can he take it (might be individual policy depending on if they're Dept Public Health/Safety or a privatized company)?[/COLOR]
At what point does property cease to be yours? - Nightclaw - 2010-03-29
Quote:Is something forgotten in a public location (or left unattended in general) still considered to be personal property?
whoever voted no for #2 is stupid. If I leave everything in my house untended in my house, its not my property? wtp kind of logic is that?
At what point does property cease to be yours? - MasPan - 2010-03-29
Nightclaw Wrote:whoever voted no for #2 is stupid. If I leave everything in my house untended in my house, its not my property? wtp kind of logic is that?
[color="#cc8899"]PUBLIC PROPERTY. Your house is NOT public property.
Also, the votes atm tally to 14, 15, and 14. Who the hell either put an extra vote for the 2nd question or only answered one of them? Way to pineapple up the poll.[/COLOR]
At what point does property cease to be yours? - TøbiasBlack - 2010-03-29
Scenario 1: If something is discarded the original owner gives away all rights and privileges of ownership.
if i throw away a sandwich, half eaten, and a homeless man comes up after and takes it and starts to eat it, i cannot rightfully claim that to be my sandwich since i relinquished ownership of it by discarding it.
Scenario 3: If one can identify a personal posession at the time of its location in the possession of another person, person 1 has full right to that item.
Consider an enderly woman is robbed blind by her son's girlfriend one day and sells the jewelry to a pawn shop. If the grandmother contacts the police, and later the pawn shop owner gives the police a location of some of the stolen jewelry, then the woman can then claim it. i only know of this because this happened to my own grandmother.