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+--- Thread: The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help (/showthread.php?tid=39314)
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - GunisBack - 2011-03-15
Anonymous Moose Wrote:Actually, it seems more like Realism vs Idealism.
In an idea world, Nexon could be trusted with your flimsy "I want to believe" excuse, but this is reality. Not everyone is "good" and you need a stronger reason than simply belief. I mean, I could believe as hard as I could that Bush was the greatest president in the world, but would that change the fact that he got us into illegal wars, ordered the illegal detainment and torture of countless people, etc. Just like how I could believe as hard as I could that nexon hasn't wronged me and are good, but that wont change all the lies and wrongful acts they have commited.
My "flimsy" excuse is all I need. You claim that nexon isn't to be trusted. I can agree that they have done some things that aren't good, I know they have. I've been screwed over plenty of times by Nexon in the past, the adventurer rings being the prime example, and when I lost $20 in cubes during the rollbacks. And yet I still feel obligated to believe them now, you wanna know why? Not because I'm an idealist, I know theres some f'ucked up people in this world, but because I feel that people, when faced by a catastrophe such as Japan, feel a moral obligation to do good and to help them. That's not idealism my friend, that is optimism at it's finest.
Kalovale Wrote:You do realize the merit of this so-claimed stupid argument Sarah brought up, do you not? However slim the chance/amount, it DID manage to increase the awareness of a couple tens of Southperrians and correspondingly the fund going to Japan. That, or less revenue for Nexon from unknowing people, which is ALSO to my liking.
I presume there is no use arguing morals. At the end of the day, rape could very well be a natural thing for the person next to you. What can be done should be done. The question is: Is it or is it not worthwhile to actually inform the idiotic mass of the scam they are subject to?
What practical good does it do? Probably none. If someone were about to cash out their week's allowance for cubes, but then learn that it's not going to Japan. What do they do?
A/ Go for the cubes anyway, as that's what they want and the "sense" of possessing them is already in their head. It's hard to resist.
B/ Save the money. Why buy things you didn't want to begin with? If they wanted to donate, it wouldn't have mattered whether Nexon included the Game tab or not.
I personally find it unjust that this kind of thing happens and is acceptable to so many people. But overall, they've done more good than harm, even if they trick the players into buying twice the donation amount through GAME items.
I know precisely what sarah's argument is. However, what I fail to see is, how is Nexon tricking anyone? Anyone who reads this announcement should read the whole thing, in which they will see that the game tab is excluded from this event. Now we have 3 types of people.
A: The people who want to buy cubes and don't care about helping Japan/would rather help through means of direct donation to an organization. Their choice is obvious.
B: The people who are buying nx for the sole reason of donation to Japan. Their choice is obvious, buy something that's not in the game tab. If they have read the announcement, which they should have, then they would know this as it is pretty clear.
C: The people who want cubes, but also want to help Japan. Their choice is more difficult, they have to decide if they want to do the moral thing or the greedy thing. They have a few options, buy the cubes, support japan through means of other nx items, or support japan through means of direct donation.
I don't see how any of the above scenarios have tricks in them. The only trick there is is if you failed to read the announcement, but then you are at fault. Am I correct?
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - Anonymous Moose - 2011-03-15
Takebacker Wrote:So you're weighing the "wrongs" "lies" and "wrongful acts" Nexon has committed against you in a video game to scrutinize a relief effort made to provide nothing but help for a nation in crisis?
If they contnuously show that they are dishonest towards their players, then why should we trust them now?
For example, Bush and Clintons where frauds throughoutt both of their presidencies. If they where, then why should I trust them when they created that Haiti charitiy?
We need to take a close look at the people we are dealing with. Just because a crisis occurs doesnt mean they will magically become honest.
@above: I call it delusional. Nothing of what you said logically proves that nexon can be trusted. That isnt optimism.
And if you truely have a moral obligation, then why not donate purely to Japan, knowing with certainty that all money went to japan? Why take a risk with a company that has been untrustworthy towards you?
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - ShanghaiDizzy - 2011-03-15
Those who said Nexon donating is a good thing. Yes, I think we all agree on that. Nobody who was against the "event" was saying Nexon's evil for donating $1.2 million. That amount is not pocket change, no matter how big the company. And yes, it's certainly better than not donating anything at all. Nobody sane also expects Nexon to donate 100% of its generated sales the upcoming week towards the misfortune either.
The majority of the issues spoken up about involves the way Nexon worded its NX purchase "event" and how many players are confused by it. If they misunderstood and read it, some morality issues are brought up as to whether or not this is intentional. However, it may have been better had Nexon worded and described the way the system works with more detail.
That said, there are things I still want to know:
1) Do EXP coupons count towards the game tab items? This is very questionable as to how they were categorized before.
2) How do cash shop items bought with NX generated from surveys play a part in the donations brought towards Japan?
3) Does money generated from taxes from MTS transactions work towards the donations as well.
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - Takebacker - 2011-03-15
BECAUSE THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR PLAYERS OR THEIR AGENDA. If you're that much of a cynic and really care about NexonAM's actions towards you, an anon, in a video game that you would seriously let that get in the way of you trusting their motivations in donating to Japan then there's no f'ucking point even talking to you. I stand by what i said before. What if someone at Nexon lost their family to this?
Welcome to my ignore list.
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - Sarah - 2011-03-15
To be clear, my points have nothing to do with anything Moose is saying. I want to separate myself from that mess. I don't doubt their intentions at all, but the way they're going about it is what I don't like.
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - Anonymous Moose - 2011-03-15
Takebacker Wrote:BECAUSE THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR PLAYERS OR THEIR AGENDA. If you're that much of a cynic and really care about NexonAM's actions towards you, an anon, in a video game that you would seriously let that get in the way of you trusting their motivations in donating to Japan then there's no f'ucking point even talking to you. I stand by what i said before. What if someone at Nexon lost their family to this?
Welcome to my ignore list.
If it has nothing to do with their players or their agenda, then why is the donation method through Players buying NX? Its business as usual, with the added bonus of giving a (possibly false) sense of altruism to buying the NX.
Just because people are in danger doesnt mean that people who are frauds would instantly have a change of heart or act differently.
All I've been saying from the begining is that honest and generous american's have been scammed in charities like this in the past. It could happen very easily again with the mentality of completely rejecting the possibility that this is a fraud.
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - GunisBack - 2011-03-15
Anonymous Moose Wrote:If it has nothing to do with their players or their agenda, then why is the donation method through Players buying NX? Its business as usual, with the added bonus of giving a (possibly false) sense of altruism to buying the NX.
Just because people are in danger doesnt mean that people who are frauds would instantly have a change of heart or act differently.
Maybe you missed the part where they said they are giving 100% of their profit to Japan? How is people buying nx benefiting them at all if they are giving them 100% of the profit.
Oh and here, let me add your next quote for you too, so I don't have to quote it later.
Anonymous Moose Wrote:But how do we know they are giving 100% of the profit to Japan.
And now we are back to trust. Congratulations, we just went in a complete circle.
And to add onto my post above, I've already admitted that they could have worded it differently, because it is a little tricky, but the message is still clear in my eyes.
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - Anonymous Moose - 2011-03-15
GunisBack Wrote:Maybe you missed the part where they said they are giving 100% of their profit to Japan? How is people buying nx benefiting them at all if they are giving them 100% of the profit.
Maybe you missed the part where 9/11 charities promised 100% of the proceeds would go to 9/11 families.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/charity.asp
But how much actually went?
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - GunisBack - 2011-03-15
Anonymous Moose Wrote:Maybe you missed the part where 9/11 charities promised 100% of the proceeds would go to 9/11 families.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/charity.asp
But how much actually went?
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/charity.asp
>rumors
>using it as an actual source for undisputable fact
Conspiracy Theorists at their greatest.
Do I need to even speak more? And look at who ran with this story. Rush Limbaugh, Oprah, and Bill O'Reilly. Really?
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - Anonymous Moose - 2011-03-15
GunisBack Wrote:http://www.snopes.com/rumors/charity.asp
>rumors
>using it as an actual source for undisputable fact
Conspiracy Theorists at their greatest.
Do I need to even speak more? And look at who ran with this story. Rush Limbaugh, Oprah, and Bill O'Reilly. Really?
Snopes is a site dedicated to proving or disproving rumors and urban legends.
Oh, and great job ignoring other sources like USA today.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2001-10-30-nceditf.htm
And I doubt Healy would resign if this was all false.
And you misused the term conspiracy theory... People abuse that term when they want to dispute public records a little too often.
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - Kalovale - 2011-03-15
GunisBack Wrote:Maybe you missed the part where they said they are giving 100% of their profit to Japan? How is people buying nx benefiting them at all if they are giving them 100% of the profit.
Just wanting to pause here for a sec and... what?
And:
GunisBack Wrote:I don't see how any of the above scenarios have tricks in them. The only trick there is is if you failed to read the announcement, but then you are at fault. Am I correct?
Quote:I still advocate educated choice, though, so it's a pomegranatety feeling seeing people benefit off others' ignorance and not do anything about it.
I'm not shoving the responsibility onto Nexon. There are suggestions to what they COULD have done, but no obligations. Intentionally or not, they still left it pretty ambiguous for the average "PEOPLE ARE STUPID" kind of population, and, again, intentionally or not, benefit from THAT fact. And that's not okay in my book.
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - Anonymous Moose - 2011-03-15
Just to add, even CNN reports that the Red Cross mishandled 9/11 charity funds.
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/11/06/rec.charity.hearing/?related
""I see the Red Cross, which has raised hundreds of millions of dollars that was intended by the donating public to be used for the victims of September 11 -- I see those funds being sequestered into long-term plans for an organization," testified New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer. "
You can libel me all you want with the "conspiracy theorist" term, but the truth will remain the truth and the facts will remain the facts.
Edit: Just to mention it again, Healy resigned shortly after this scandal.
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - Seanny - 2011-03-15
No evidence (Not opinions) that Nexon WILL NOT give 100%?
Anyways, if nexon really wanted to lie, it would have said EVERYTHING while secretly withholding the profits from the game category.
As for the announcement, it says 'of many of our ingame items'. Which should provide CONCERNED players with the idea to look for more information regarding this. On the front page this very moment there's TWO headlines regarding this event. Its not that hard to miss.
In this very article where it SAYS "many items"
"For more details on the items that will help support these relief efforts in Japan, go to
MapleStory"
IT HAS THE DAMN LINK RIGHT THERE TO CLARIFY WHAT SPECIFIC MS ITEMS QUALIFY. I really fail to see how misleading it is.
It says, 'ALL ITEMS'
So right here a person should think, all.
'Save'
Now person is now sees this word and expects a modification to the term 'ALL'.
'Those in the Cash Shop GAME category'
And learns what that modification is.
I guess the only REAL change they need to add is changing 'GAME category' to 'GAME category tab' but aside from that. this wasn't worth so many pages of debate.
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - GunisBack - 2011-03-15
Anonymous Moose Wrote:Snopes is a site dedicated to proving or disproving rumors and urban legends.
Oh, and great job ignoring other sources like USA today.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/2001-10-30-nceditf.htm
And I doubt Healy would resign if this was all false.
And you misused the term conspiracy theory... People abuse that term when they want to dispute public records a little too often.
And yet the usatoday link you posted is in the opinion section. Still not fact.
as for the CNN link, may I ask you to link me to the results of these questions, and if any actual action came against Red Cross for this? I'd be interested in reading up on it more.
Kalovale Wrote:Just wanting to pause here for a sec and... what?
And:
I'm not shoving the responsibility onto Nexon. There are suggestions to what they COULD have done, but no obligations. Intentionally or not, they still left it pretty ambiguous for the average "PEOPLE ARE STUPID" kind of population, and, again, intentionally or not, benefit from THAT fact.
I misspoke on the first one, I meant to say 100% of the profits except for the game section.
As for the second part, like I've said many times, it is worded pretty bad I will admit, but I would believe that anyone who is donating would read the rules behind donating before blindly throwing money out correct?
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - Anonymous Moose - 2011-03-15
GunisBack Wrote:And yet the usatoday link you posted is in the opinion section. Still not fact.
as for the CNN link, may I ask you to link me to the results of these questions, and if any actual action came against Red Cross for this? I'd be interested in reading up on it more.
That would take time. This is old news. The only think I'm certain of is Healy resigning, but so many links are now broken.
And the opinion section is usually for articles that include opinions about facts, but almost always mention the facts (in fact almost all news we listen to today belongs in the opinion section), and of course the opinion article was referencing the facts stated in the CNN article.
Now for a few things I found after a few google search (since... its been a long time).
"In addition, some nonprofit fund-raisers were restive about Dr. Healy's muscular fund-raising, saying she had taken advantage of the attacks to increase donations to her charity at the expense of all others. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/27/us/nation-challenged-charity-red-cross-president-quits-saying-that-board-left-her.html?ref=bernadinehealy
"Bernadine Healy resigned in 2001 amid accusations about the mishandling of donations for 9/11 victims; Martha J. Evans stepped down in 2005 after the Red Cross' response to Hurricane Katrina was deemed inadequate -- yet another leader has made a scandalous departure. "
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-oe-daum1dec01,0,4384391.column
I could look a little further into it for more information, but all I honestly know is that she resigned and nothing else was done as far as I know.
And this is why I am highly skeptical of charities.
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - GunisBack - 2011-03-15
Anonymous Moose Wrote:That would take time. This is old news. The only think I'm certain of is Healy resigning.
And the opinion section is usually for articles that include opinions about facts, but almost always mention the facts (in fact almost all news we listen to today belongs in the opinion section).
Well I was under the impression that she was forced out and that no actual action was taken against the Red Cross, but I might be mistaken.
I guess I should give you one thing. We don't have any way of knowing that 100% of the profits from everything besides the game category will got to Japan. That is fair to say, cause we don't. You can never be 100% sure of anything really if you wanna get technical.
But I trust them, and that's enough for me. I guess it isn't enough for you, but it's quite obvious that at this point we won't be able to change each other's minds so, to each his own.
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - Kalovale - 2011-03-15
GunisBack Wrote:And yet the usatoday link you posted is in the opinion section. Still not fact.
as for the CNN link, may I ask you to link me to the results of these questions, and if any actual action came against Red Cross for this? I'd be interested in reading up on it more.
I misspoke on the first one, I meant to say 100% of the profits except for the game section.
As for the second part, like I've said many times, it is worded pretty bad I will admit, but I would believe that anyone who is donating would read the rules behind donating before blindly throwing money out correct?
LOL, no. They are not throwing ANY money out for Japan. They are getting what they pay for, EVERY SINGLE CENT OF IT. They're sitting on the fence, itching to make the purchase that benefit themselves and themselves ONLY when they got fueled by the extra incentive. What should they be waiting for? Reading rules? LOL.
From your point of view, that kind of players takes up a third of the people, but from mine, all of us who still play still host that little fire inside, only waiting for the fuel to be supplied. I know I do. I'm going to buy World Transfer after FIVE months of consideration, thanks to Japan. THANKFULLY World Transfer is not under GAME, or that I am the nit-picking type.
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - Anonymous Moose - 2011-03-15
GunisBack Wrote:Well I was under the impression that she was forced out and that no actual action was taken against the Red Cross, but I might be mistaken.
I guess I should give you one thing. We don't have any way of knowing that 100% of the profits from everything besides the game category will got to Japan. That is fair to say, cause we don't. You can never be 100% sure of anything really if you wanna get technical.
But I trust them, and that's enough for me. I guess it isn't enough for you, but it's quite obvious that at this point we won't be able to change each other's minds so, to each his own.
I editted the post with some links and so far your assumption would be the same as mine, she resigned, but I'd go as far as to say she was probably a scapegoat.
This is why I only donate, if I absolutely am certain the money goes where it is suppose to. So far though, that has only been one charity that I worked on as an accountant (which means I was absolutely certain all money was given to the families it was meant for). Aside from that, I've only given money to those in need in person.
I suppose you are right. We wont change eachothers opinions and I believe I'm mostly done here. You've shown your point, and so have I. All we can do is agree to disagree.
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - GunisBack - 2011-03-15
Kalovale Wrote:LOL, no. They are not throwing ANY money out for Japan. They are getting what they pay for, EVERY SINGLE CENT OF IT. They're sitting on the fence, itching to make the purchase that benefit themselves and themselves ONLY when they got fueled by the extra incentive. What should they be waiting for? Reading rules? LOL.
From your point of view, that kind of players takes up a third of the people, but from mine, all of us who still play still host that little fire inside, only waiting for the fuel to be supplied. I know I do. I'm going to buy World Transfer after FIVE months of consideration, thanks to Japan. THANKFULLY World Transfer is not under GAME, nor am I too quick to act.
I don't think I'm fully understanding what you are saying. By your first paragraph you are saying that people are going to buy nx and just buy cubes because thats what they want? That's what I'm taking from it, but I may be mis-interpriting, and wouldn't that just mean that they aren't buying NX because of this event with Japan, but because they wanted items? So wouldn't we then infer that they would buy the NX whether or not this tragedy happened?
There's obviously going to be people who are going to buy items that they have been hesitant on now so they can show support to Japan, like you said with the world transfer, but wouldn't these people know from the announcement whether or not what they are buying is actually supporting Japan? I'd like to have faith in people enough that they can understand this announcement and know what will and won't apply.
I think we've gone on with this debate long enough that we have lost the main focus of it, at least I feel like I have. Is there bad choices made by Nexon in their wording? Yes, I can agree with that. But I will continue to believe that people will be able to decipher their message and know what will and won't apply.
Can we all just agree that Nexon is doing a good thing here, whether their motives are profit driven or truly genuine, and call it a night? I for one applaud Nexon for doing this, because even if it is profit driven, which I don't believe it is, they are still doing a great thing that most other companies aren't doing and they have definitely earned some respect back from me.
The Disaster in Japan, How We Can All Help - Rick - 2011-03-15
Man I love you guys.