Takebacker Wrote:That's for robin though. I would bet money that lucina's final smash is the same as marth.

Sephie Wrote::/ for some reason I thought Lucina had a Father-Daughter Kamehameha Wave FS but I remembered incorrectly. I guess Chrom is in Robin's FS to reference the partner assist thing in Awakening.

Takebacker Wrote:I don't have a problem with clones especially in this game though. Sakurai has proven to make really solid decisions this time around in regards to character design and inclusions and making it all work, and i really don't think lucina is any different.

Alloy Wrote:Yeah, I'm usually against blatant clones in the Smash bros series, but as long as they are justified (DNA excuse haha) and make sense (I'm looking at you, Captain Ganondorf), they'll do fine in this game, mainly because of character customization. The ammount of combinations can already be crazy with what we know, and adding a second opinion to an existing character is a nice way of promoting this.

But please make sense with the decisions when "cloning". Ganondorf should use moves based on the Zelda games, not moves based off a character without moves in his own game for starters... Even if it fitted that character in particular.

Takebacker Wrote:Tipping the scales

Mazz Wrote:I'm not a fan of Lucina just because if she's going to be anything close to a Marth clone it seems like a wasted slot. I'd rather have a full roster of completely unique characters than have a handful who are virtually identical save for a few tweaks, and I mean that both in terms of character design and move sets. I've always been more of a casual Smash Bros player though.

Takebacker Wrote:If she didn't take up a slot and was accessed through costume switch would that make it better?

What about in previous games where shiek and zero suit didn't take up a slot?

Takebacker Wrote:What moves does ganon have in his games though? Nothing outside of a sword really, and we can't have him transforming or give him a sword moveset that would make sense. Ganon is a big character and it just makes sense that he would be a really strong, really slow fighter as opposed to a sword style that probably wouldn't fit his character or diversify him from any other of the million swordsmen in the game. There were only 3 "big men" in melee if i remember correctly and i think 4 swordsmen? We have 4 "big men" in brawl and 5 swordsmen (arguably 6 with pit)? Tipping the scales in favor of swords wouldn't be fair, especially if ganon would keep his "strong but slow" theme as a swordsmen since he would likely overpower the others with the range that a sword as strong as his character is now would have.

Takebacker Wrote:The argument against clones in this game is as follows. People have a lot more of a problem with new undeserved entries because this is the first handheld smash where limitations on the medium was made known by the developers well in advance. Despite having theoretically less effort required to implement, that time can still be used towards fixing things that would negatively affect the product as a whole which could potentially turn off lucina supporters, naysayers, and everyone else. The more characters we get period increase the tensions that people have about a well functioning product on a handheld system. The fact that 3DS release was delayed by several months supports the idea that it was being rushed. The 3DS version existing in the first place takes away from the wii U version but due to the fact that these games are heavily linked the handheld version cannot be a failure or else the entire project will flop in more ways than one.

A clone character doesn't really make these concerns that much more real compared to a true new character, but we already have a lot more characters in this game than we assumed it would have based on sakurai saying it would have less characters due to 3DS limitations and that is still a concern clone character or not. I'm sure there won't be any real problems though; the profitability is too high for nintendo and sakurai to not go all out since they aren't just selling a game this time, they'll be selling a wii u as well.

I don't have a problem with clones especially in this game though. Sakurai has proven to make really solid decisions this time around in regards to character design and inclusions and making it all work, and i really don't think lucina is any different.

Alloy Wrote:Take the Ganon fight in Ocarina of Time for example. He threw energy balls, and shockwave punched the ground. Then you can also consider using magic along with phisical attacks. Maybe even summoning enemies... Imagine summoning a Redead somewhere that moves slowly but can grab people that aren't careful. All that can be done without a sword. He could also summon weapons from other games for some attacks, like a trident, dual blades or a sword.

ShinkuDragon Wrote:my problem with clones is much more simple: they're the same thing. they add nothing new to the table in regards to movements or looks, it's just "hey, let's give this guy the same moveset but on that body"

so even though things might work differently, they behave similarly. even clones in streetfighter have advanced to the point where the same technique is done in different ways. (gouken's tatsumaki goes upwards instead of sideways, sakura's shoryukken moves her forward a LOT of distance, etc)

edit: to add a bit, i LOVE the fact that lucina is in, i'm just sad that she does nothing new however, even though it fits the canon to a T.

Takebacker Wrote:Well i didn't say it was the only argument. It's just one of the only arguments that's actually valid for this game right now.

"so even though things might work differently, they behave similarly" You have this backwards. They work similarly and behave differently. Side-B is still done by doing...side-B, but side-B won't behave the same way marth side-B does.

ShinkuDragon Wrote:behave was the wrong word, "looks" is more like it. they work/behave different (well, lucina's still seem similar enough) but how they look is the same thing, just custom fitted for the character. like how even though ganondorf skills were all huge and purple, they still looked like "slower cptn falcon"

Takebacker Wrote:Yeah i get you. I actually just thought of something though. Isn't lucina the first female swordsmen in smash ever? If she's the most popular of that series and they were going to have this kind of FE exposure, wouldn't it be disrespectful if she wasn't in her own slot?

Flonne Wrote:Fanservice is NEVER pointless.

ChronosXIII Wrote:I wonder if Sakurai went all the way then, with kimono!Lucina.

 Spoiler

The Hot Spring Scramble one.

Cordelia was 3rd place in popularity over in Japan and she would have at least brought a new weapon to the series, a lance *gasp*. Though I guess there might be balance issues with that kind of inherent range, it would have been refreshing seeing that instead of the third purely, sword-user from the Fire Emblem series.

Sakurai Wrote:Pic of the day. The Levin sword and tomes are Robin's life lines. The Levin sword can be activated by using smash attacks--you can even activate these moves in midair! However, just like in the original game, the Levin sword can be used only a limited number of times before it breaks, at which point it takes some time to regenerate. When the Levin sword is unavailable, Robin fights using the bronze sword.