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+--- Thread: v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights (/showthread.php?tid=71574)
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - PirateIzzy - 2014-06-23
HoH nerf confirmed by the video.
FFS, I wanted to see what would happen to Masteria/Dawnveil/SEA mobs. Will they change in level or will Nexon go the lazy route with their HP?
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - Justin - 2014-06-23
Coogi Wrote:Does anyone know if KMS has boxes that like dropped from the monsters to get the coins or was it only for the mini game crap?
There are boxes that have a chance to give coins.
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - kayeyearekay - 2014-06-23
Takebacker Wrote:I'm arguing that GMS luminous can perform above or at the level most classes can in high level bossing despite the hard nerf between KMS and GMS. You already proved my point with this comment; GMS videos exist of lumi at hard magnus and hell gollux. Not every class in GMS can do that and still be such a good training class, much less shouldering a 1v1 nerf as bad as lumi nerf was.sure, not every class can boss properly, but the only reason luminous even ends up trying hard magnus is because of bind, and ender. every class that has a bind skill has a better chance at killing hard magnus. and ender's spamable duration is the relevant nerf. you're trying to say that luminous are high tier bossers. they are not. because of their nerf. you cant say they got the biggest nerf, and maintain the fact that they are still top tier bossers. plus, they arent just good at training, they are the best, i.e. GMS rankings.
Takebacker Wrote:I didn't consider the phantom nerf to be as devastating as lumi nerf regardless though. People outright dismissed GMS lumi as trash without looking at tangible results. People still played phantoms seriously after revamp; far more people than those who took up GMS lumi seriously. RED phantom buff launched them into OP status. Lumi didn't get that kind of buff because GMS lumi is already viable but most people pick classes based off %/s threads and so lumis are looked down on.phantom was & is more popular than lumi ever was/is. so "more people playing phantom" is popularity, not character value/worth. even before phantom revamp, they were always at the very least, buff mules. lumi had grinders, and link skill, and bind mules, but not much bossing potential. marksman have the unlimited snipe, luminous have a limited version, its just not as good side by side. which is exactly luminous lack of 1v1 making it unpopular in boss situations. people can manage to make them work decently but those are people looking for unpopular class, or struggle, or "something different that can be fun". compared to lumi mobbing (which is the best), their 1v1 (for bossing) is one of the worst.
this type of person will play aran (with much much less dps) instead of playing drk, because they want the challenge of a difficult class and can afford to shovel funding.
phantom nerf > lumi nerf
phantom rebuff >>> lumi rebuff
these are separate actions. phantoms got massive reductions to their dps. they became throwaways because of it. the same happened to luminous, and burster.
phantoms rebuff was better, and actually launched them into #1 dps, making them the new wagon.
Takebacker Wrote:Your argument seems to be that luminous has bad boss time records compared to those at top level. That may be true, but it doesn't go against what i'm saying. There are a lot of classes that can't touch HM or hell gollux at all. The fact that luminous can shows the nerf doesn't make lumi bottom of the barrel in practice.
Takebacker Wrote:I'm arguing that GMS luminous can perform above or at the level most classes can in high level bossing despite the hard nerf ...THESE two statements, bolded, is why im saying "you are not making sense." you are double talking your own argument.
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - Christian - 2014-06-24
Usually these propaganda videos get me back to playing this game.. but this seems dull?
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - Razmos - 2014-06-24
Christian Wrote:Usually these propaganda videos get me back to playing this game.. but this seems dull?Same, it bored me a little.
Was hoping they'd mention inner ability changes or the changes to item drops (showing the items potential rank before you pick it up, it was mentioned on the CMS teaser site).
But eh, they didn't mention the cash shop storage event either, so they left out some good stuff.
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - dowie - 2014-06-24
Christian Wrote:Usually these propaganda videos get me back to playing this game.. but this seems dull?
Did you like how the voice was EMPHASIZING on certain WORDS.
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - Christian - 2014-06-24
Razmos Wrote:Same, it bored me a little.
Was hoping they'd mention inner ability changes or the changes to item drops (showing the items potential rank before you pick it up, it was mentioned on the CMS teaser site).
But eh, they didn't mention the cash shop storage event either, so they left out some good stuff.
I thought they would at least add something about the cash shop but nope. Seems like a good selling point to me and would be to many others as well
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - SwordStaker - 2014-06-24
PirateIzzy Wrote:HoH nerf confirmed by the video.I though it didn't really matter because everything was buffed and made party play anyway?
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - Arrol - 2014-06-24
SwordStaker Wrote:I though it didn't really matter because everything was buffed and made party play anyway?
HoH HP:EXP wise post You&I is weaker in comparison to HoH now.
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - Zerard - 2014-06-24
The exp 'buffs' mentioned in the video don't really get you as far as the video makes it seem.
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - Thorr - 2014-06-24
Arrol Wrote:HoH HP:EXP wise post You&I is weaker in comparison to HoH now.
Yes, but it will mean that Twilight Perion will be more popular instead.
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - SwordStaker - 2014-06-24
Arrol Wrote:HoH HP:EXP wise post You&I is weaker in comparison to HoH now.Thorr pretty much covered what I was going to say. I think if our map gets changed to the KMS one it'll be better? The Mixed Golem map. I'm not 100% sure.
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - Thorr - 2014-06-24
SwordStaker Wrote:Thorr pretty much covered what I was going to say. I think if our map gets changed to the KMS one it'll be better? The Mixed Golem map. I'm not 100% sure.
Likely the mobs at HoH will be matriculated into the new mob HP curve. The new party exp formula will eliminate the need for any party play zones. This should result in lower HP as noted in the video. We all know that Exp is tied directly to HP, so it will obviously go lower as well. However, it will make the map more approachable to lesser powered players.
First thing I am doing when the new patch hits is analyzing the new party exp formula and making my Exp calculator match it. I will keep the old formula right next to it so we can get a definitive answer on how much of a nerf it ends up being.
Another thing to consider - if HoH becomes a normal mob zone, then Runes and such will show up which will give opportunities for extra Exp. It may not bring it up to pre-nerf conditions, but it may not make things as bad as they might initially seem.
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - SwordStaker - 2014-06-24
Thorr Wrote:Likely the mobs at HoH will be matriculated into the new mob HP curve. The new party exp formula will eliminate the need for any party play zones. This should result in lower HP as noted in the video. We all know that Exp is tied directly to HP, so it will obviously go lower as well. However, it will make the map more approachable to lesser powered players.The Koreans have been doing just fine leveling since You and I so I think we'll be good as well. I'll be interested to see what you find out after the patch. I've actually been kind of waiting for this patch to train some of my lower levels. Especially because a few of my friends and I are going to make new characters together. I think you're right and I don't think it will be as bad as people think it will be. Should work out well IMHO.
First thing I am doing when the new patch hits is analyzing the new party exp formula and making my Exp calculator match it. I will keep the old formula right next to it so we can get a definitive answer on how much of a nerf it ends up being.
Another thing to consider - if HoH becomes a normal mob zone, then Runes and such will show up which will give opportunities for extra Exp. It may not bring it up to pre-nerf conditions, but it may not make things as bad as they might initially seem.
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - hadriel - 2014-06-24
Thorr Wrote:How is it a nerf when it has always been true? Maybe you are reading it wrong, but the notes refer to 15 hits, not 15 uses. Every skill in maple is limited to hitting no more than 15 times in one go. 7 Hits doubled to 14 in equilibrium, so it wasn't an issue before but with the added hit, 8 doubles to 16 and gets reduced to 15 because of the hard limit.
Bottom line - there is NO new lumi nerf. Read this again - "Absolute Kill: number of hits has been increased from 7 to 8 (however, in Equilibrium, max number of hits is still 15)"
It can be read either ways in Mandarin. "攻击15次" just reads as "attacks 15 times". Doesn't tell me whether it's 15 times per cast, or 15 casts. Read how they specify attack count as "攻击次数" in the earlier sentence. If it's a hard cap of 15 attacks, then fine, happy, no nerf. If this was revealed in some earlier KMS(T) update, then I can't say I'm sorry for not following it.
Didn't shadow partner for DBs go like... 20 hits in the past? Can't remember whether it was CoH or something else, but I remember numbers rising to the roof like crazy. Or maybe that's my garbled memory.
Alright let me have a go at the Lumi thing, assuming there's a nerf (I don't care whether it was the above-corrected one, or the GMS/KMS issue, or the 15 second issue). You all have said the main points, I'm just rearranging them.
[spoiler=Read if you're bored]Numerically, Lumis suck at bossing. Period. JoeTang's DPS charts show it, and it has good validity for the grounds it cover. But Lumi's make for great everything because they can do almost anything (except tank DR). Lumi's make great bossers (I used to boss well with my Lumi while I was still playing GMS, c.a. 100k range) because we 1) survive, 2) heal, 3) bind, 4) have a variety of skills to do lots of stuff i.e. we're incredibly flexible, and 5) we have insane burst-DPS. With a Equilibrium-Equalize combo fully buffed during bind, Normal Hilla just gets smashed. We can do that because we can dump all our damage onto the boss while it's not hitting us.
Lumi's effectiveness is decreased if the boss cannot be bound (think there are some...?). How greatly... depends. Given that all of our primary 4th job skills have such long delays, it's pretty much tele-casting without losing DPS due to teleport's delay not encroaching into the attacking skill's delay. Compare with e.g. I/L using CL. But that's not the main point of all our arguments. Between spamming e.g. Apocalypse/Reflection and spamming Ender, obviously Ender wins. We can't spam Ender except for that valuable 15-30 seconds of Equilibrium-Equalize, and that's where a good chunk of our DPS is.
Can I do the same with other classes with a reasonably close range? Yes, and probably better (e.g. MM, BaM, Paladins). Can I boss with Lumis without Ender-spam? Yes, just that it takes longer.
So why are Lumis considered OP? Reflection is (IMO, probably, don't start another argument here) the second most-imba grinding skill (next to DS' Demon Cry, which prolly ties with Pierce). We level wayyyy too fast early on because of Spectral Light (it's really sick), and our skills give us a good head-start with most stats so many people can try bossing with Lumis easily. With good control, we're almost not killable at bosses, and we boss reasonably well. Yes, I know many first-successful bossing videos come from Lumis but that's not all because of numbers! [/spoiler]
We should ask DKs how they boss with and without Reincarnation, and MMs how their bossing DPS changes before and after they get the ignore-Snipe-CD Hyper skill. Just as a reference. All the while we've been talking about what happens if we don't have Lumi Ender Spam, but that's really not the (supposed) nerf mentioned in the Chinese website.
edit: just checked Max's blog, and extractions for KMS1.2.208. Indeed it is +1 attack count.
Hadriel
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - Grey - 2014-06-24
hadriel Wrote:Didn't shadow partner for DBs go like... 20 hits in the past? Can't remember whether it was CoH or something else, but I remember numbers rising to the roof like crazy. Or maybe that's my garbled memory.
No. In fact, I believe DBs are how we found out about the 15 hit cap in the first place, since they weren't hitting as many times as they should've with Chains of Hell, as well as Fatal Blow, I believe, because of cap.
Characters with Shadow Partner type skills generally have skills that hit 7 times or less due to the cap, and they reduce the number of hits for certain skills, like Four Seasons/Death Star for NLs and that whale skill for TBs to 7, while increasing the damage per hit, because the cap limits them.
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - hadriel - 2014-06-24
Grey Wrote:No. In fact, I believe DBs are how we found out about the 15 hit cap in the first place, since they weren't hitting as many times as they should've with Chains of Hell, as well as Fatal Blow, I believe, because of cap.
Characters with Shadow Partner type skills generally have skills that hit 7 times or less due to the cap, and they reduce the number of hits for certain skills, like Four Seasons/Death Star for NLs and that whale skill for TBs to 7, while increasing the damage per hit, because the cap limits them.
Ok that makes sense. I wasn't aware of the origins of the 15-hit cap... that's a long time ago.
Regardless, the gauge-increase basically makes no difference to GMS Lumis (not unless you keep dying...?). That was my initial rage, on top of the (mistaken)15-cast nerf to Lumis.
edit: if there's a need, I can recalculate some choice jobs and their bossing DPS, to check against Joe's calculations (not that I doubt his numbers). Just prod me.
Hadriel
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - Arrol - 2014-06-24
SwordStaker Wrote:The Koreans have been doing just fine leveling since You and I so I think we'll be good as well. I'll be interested to see what you find out after the patch. I've actually been kind of waiting for this patch to train some of my lower levels. Especially because a few of my friends and I are going to make new characters together. I think you're right and I don't think it will be as bad as people think it will be. Should work out well IMHO.
Then again, I'm inclined that some of us are a bunch of spoiled lil shits, and will no doubt complain that Nexon nerfed the good maps far too much, but we'll see.
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - ChronosXIII - 2014-06-24
Shows a Jett hunting in the video. No Jett revamp.
Okay.
v.150 - Rising Heroes: Elite Update Highlights - Tsundere - 2014-06-24
Can anyone confirm the exact time the patch will be?