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+--- Thread: [Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. (/showthread.php?tid=74864)
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - hadriel - 2015-08-11
Well... now that I'm playing again... for a while, I do note that after so long since Luminous was released (and juggling a few characters), I still only have a max range of 250k to 300k fully buffed with this and that. It's not bad in that I can kill normal mob I want, and solo most normal bosses reasonably well (not against any chaos stuff except CZak... I think?). For the average guy, just how much range do you need? 500k? Ok, that sounds like being able to 1-shot every mob and comfortably kill Chaos bosses. Could probably do that with every late-game (not end-game!) equip having just 1 line of unique %Stat pot, fully scrolled, at least 6-star enhanced. Do you want to cap? Then to me that's just number whoring, but if it keeps you happy then so be it. You just have to understand that you're at the mercy of RNG from cubes. Right now I think the potential system as it is has been roughly hewn into shape, since there's almost no taking it away now. I have my doubts that Nexon is able to reduce HP of monsters and reduce our damage by slashing potential to a similar degree (or differently, and then adjusting our rewards). It's like prices will always go up, so we want wage to go up, which then drives costs and thus prices higher, and so on. We're gonna have to live with Nexon's past mistakes... or play something else.
I'm still slowly upgrading my gear, trying to get more inventory slots from Maple Rewards. The massive deflation everywhere only ends up helping me, but I feel like I'm sort of taking advantage of the economy sometimes. It really, really helps to have a pet, and I can't say it enough. I think that meso drop should become extinct, and you only need to loot items, not mesoes. Or have meso as autoloot on the character, and not items, if you still insist on milking us.
And for god damn sake, why must the loot command, pot (consuming a USE item) command, teleport command and skill-casting commands be non-commutative? When it lags it hurts me so bad e.g. if I pot I can't attack. I'd also moan about DCs becoming so painful but I'll flesh that out another time.
Hadriel
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - YennoX - 2015-08-11
TrueBlitz Wrote:And with YennoX's suggestion of taking 10x increased damage and adding potion cooldowns means you're only be fighting for a few seconds before you have to rest/be in a safe spot and wait for cooldowns to expire.
Easy. Add some i-frame mechanics to every class, so everyone has a dodge or block skill (with a CD/limitations of course). Means watching your HP and fighting smart will be more important.
cronnoponno Wrote:Removing the mobility on many classes is no longer an option anymore. The maps are balanced and designed around the fact that every class is mobile and can traverse the entire map in seconds, they would have to redesign a large amount of grinding maps to accomdate for different classes, something I support but in current Maple it'd be impossible to do.
Once you buff up mob difficulty and exp rates, being able to traverse maps quickly will be a non-issue. If you're spending a couple of seconds each mob, the map is gonna fill fast enough to keep up. The current system relies on lots of fast kills - quantity over quality.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - Lore - 2015-08-11
KhainiWest Wrote:.
I have PM'd with the interested. If I have to apologize for anything, it is only for sounding arrogant to anyone in my first post because that was not my intention. If you haven't understood yet, I wanted to share my opinion. It is definitely not thanks to your foul mouthed argumentation that I went back on my steps, but to another person. If you are grown enough you should however know that you can mean something without openly saying it, and one can disrespect another without saying "I disrespect you" while acting, you know, respectlessly. And yes I demand respect, whether you agree with me or not. I don't quote random people and tell them "you are crap, you must think X else you're retarded" out of the blue.
Back to this, seeing as discussing with you is useless because you are the voice of right. I go the opposite of "only the best can thrive" crap, what I proposed is actually doable by everyone, even by you. But you quit back then, so you won't... yet you claim to know better than me how maple works now, apparently. You appear to have fade memories of what you yourself played even, how do you claim to be reliable? (I think this is disrespectful towards your perception, whereas I didn't state "I disrespect you", just so you understand)
When people geared up (very heavily) to make bossing possible/faster, not only to grind more efficiently as you say (however a lukless 14x bishop with genesis30 and full int scrolled gear could really outdo a normal level 200 bishop), and when certain jobs were required to HP wash to even be able to face certain bosses (BG, pink bean, in some cases even horntail). You don't remember? And how do you make int gear, how do you get genesis30/mw20? Was HP wash free? I believe not, and it made quite the difference between who paid and who didn't. I don't see any complaint whatsoever about it, even if a nonwashed level 200 nightlord was pretty much screwed up even if they were willing to pay a million dollars. You were the n1 drk, kudos. Zero relevance. I was nothing and now without spending a single cent I am the 3rd drk in my server, where drk is abused by overpayers and where the cap damage is 50mil. As pointless as you in this thread. Now find me a level 170 who can outdamage a level 250. And find me a name of one person who leveled 1-200 before big bang in a week.
You are unable to see that making potential more available to everyone, which is what they're doing, is a viable solution too. It will take longer to fix than wiping everything, but if you are the kind of person that bombs around at the first (big) obstacle then I'm happy I'm not you. I don't even need to call you names after you openly attacked me during a discussion with someone else. We have a very different idea of respect, good for me that you don't care of my server and I don't care about you.
Nexon Korea proved to be able to listen to their playerbase. You say it's worthless to try, then what do you want to do? You are very good at steaming off, but terrible at proposing. There are 3 things you can do in this condition,
- either you throwdesk and start raging, which is what you do, but if you really loved maplestory you would try out your best to get it to work again, if you did I don't know but as I understand from the aforementioned "change of president" you tried it in the wrong moment,
- either you start taking down ideas for big changes, which you labeled as wasted effort, maybe with Nexon AM I don't know but in Korea it actually can get results, some will remain dreams but some might be considered (if delivered through the right channels, and let's not start a discussion about this),
- either you try out solutions in the present and if you find anything that works you pass it to other people so if they want they can try it out, which is what I did by expressing my (you don't understand the word) opinion. And by doing this I don't speak on behalf of anyone except me and myself only, you can go on thinking that you bring the ideals of the old-but-good maple community, but guess what, I'm a part of that community yet here I am.
The only thing I get away with is your suggestion to quit, because as it appears I'm trying to bring on a discussion which, since the moment you started handling it, is directionless. I have been warned and received an infraction, it's a sign that my posts have been considered unsuitable so better cut that off. I don't care the slightest if people give my posts a bad reputation, it means they disagree, okay. I know that what I did is right and I tried to suggest it - it didn't work. I will just go back to enjoy what I was doing and let you boil, if that's what you want.
KhainiWest Wrote:...f`ucking...sh`it...fu`cking...f`ucking...f`ucking...sh`it
Insightful.
-
Also, to the 65k > 200k range in 3-4 months, it may be seen as a poor increase if you look it with the eyes of a 2-2, but looking at it down from the 65k that's triple the damage. At the cost of time, it doesn't seem bad. Triple it twice more and you get 1.8mil range in the time span of a year. How far would you get playing 6 hours a day in the old maple? If a bishop on 43x exp required 16 hours to do 199-200, and 43x is not really your daily exp multiplicator, maths is up to you. Enjoy your visual progress of 80 level up screenshots taken during a year's (more likely 2) time in the same map, doing the same thing. I personally enjoy more progressing on my own gear, but yeah, opinions. I even liked pre-bb but now come tell me grinding years at skeles was nice and fun anyone.
edit: one thing you GMSsians might look into could be a different star force system, if it's even wanted and possible to get a change in that. I believe KMS's works as a very good meso sink and good to take away equips from the market too (due to the booming), EMS's is much affordable by poorer players whereas it offers an excellent equips trash bin (for example to empty the free market of all trash flamed cra).
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - SaptaZapta - 2015-08-11
Final warning: the next person to make any sort of personal comment in this thread will be banned from it.
Stick to the topic, please.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - TidusLoveYuna - 2015-08-11
lol this still going.
by the level of tensions and arguments in this thread it just shows how passionate people are for this game for both sides those who love and hate it. ppl who dont care about the game wouldnt bother posting anything here anyway.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - Justin - 2015-08-11
Lore Wrote:Also, to the 65k > 200k range in 3-4 months, it may be seen as a poor increase if you look it with the eyes of a 2-2, but looking at it down from the 65k that's triple the damage. At the cost of time, it doesn't seem bad. Triple it twice more and you get 1.8mil range in the time span of a year. How far would you get playing 6 hours a day in the old maple? If a bishop on 43x exp required 16 hours to do 199-200, and 43x is not really your daily exp multiplicator, maths is up to you. Enjoy your visual progress of 80 level up screenshots taken during a year's (more likely 2) time in the same map, doing the same thing. I personally enjoy more progressing on my own gear, but yeah, opinions. I even liked pre-bb but now come tell me grinding years at skeles was nice and fun anyone.
edit: one thing you GMSsians might look into could be a different star force system, if it's even wanted and possible to get a change in that. I believe KMS's works as a very good meso sink and good to take away equips from the market too (due to the booming), EMS's is much affordable by poorer players whereas it offers an excellent equips trash bin (for example to empty the free market of all trash flamed cra).
Unfortunately, that is not how it works... getting range gets increasingly difficult, not less difficult, as it gets higher, as after a point you must either rescroll your current equips, regamble your current potentials for higher tiers with better lines, or outright replace the equipment for better base stat equips (And then start the whole process over). At his pace it would take a heck of a lot longer than just 1 year to reach 1.8mil range.
There are a number of great suggestions that have been brought up already, and I've got some myself:
Add a coin shop for PQs (Both world PQ and in-house PQs should distribute these coins) and allow players to buy cubes and or scrolls (Maybe epic potential scrolls or unique at a very high cost?)
Scale down the ridiculous damage and make bosses REQUIRE multiple people to kill again (This would never happen, but it's a suggestion)
Add. In. Meso. Sinks. Maplestory has not ONCE in the 12 damn years it's been released had an actual meso sink with a decent selection of items. Put cubes, soul shards, inventory expansions in there and make them cost a decent amount. (Enough to where they take some time, but not 10 hours for a single damn cube) The mesos in the economy constantly switching hands and nothing else alongside the rampant botting has made them next to worthless.
I'll try to think of some more later.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - TheBlackMage - 2015-08-11
Justin Wrote:Add. In. Meso. Sinks. Maplestory has not ONCE in the 12 damn years it's been released had an actual meso sink with a decent selection of items. Put cubes, soul shards, inventory expansions in there and make them cost a decent amount. (Enough to where they take some time, but not 10 hours for a single damn cube) The mesos in the economy constantly switching hands and nothing else alongside the rampant botting has made them next to worthless.
I'd like to point something out, It's not Nexon KR's fault for this one.
KMS has a great economy, What does that mean? Nexon's solutions are working.
I don't know what's wrong with GMS' economy although some things are obvious and they are clearly nexon america's fault, For example the simple fact you guys don't have flames, as someone mentioned, All CRA is pretty much the same and worthless, GMS lacks variety, However how is that fair to say when Gollux exists? Gollux is a fairly decent money maker. Can someone even pin-point the problem with GMS' economy? Is it really the amount of meso? Or something else.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - dowie - 2015-08-11
more likely the rampant botting
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - SaptaZapta - 2015-08-11
Justin Wrote:Add. In. Meso. Sinks. Maplestory has not ONCE in the 12 damn years it's been released had an actual meso sink with a decent selection of items. Put cubes, soul shards, inventory expansions in there and make them cost a decent amount. (Enough to where they take some time, but not 10 hours for a single damn cube) The mesos in the economy constantly switching hands and nothing else alongside the rampant botting has made them next to worthless.
The problem with whatever meso sinks we have is that they hurt the poor worse than they hurt the rich.
For example, the cost of revealing "high level" equipment. Yes, it adds up when you're cubing your Tyrants to legendary. But it also adds up when you're just a poor newbie trying to find 3% mainstat Pensalir gear (which costs 10x as much to reveal as you get from NPC'ing it when you discover the potential sucks).
I believe what the game needs is exponentially increasing taxes.
Right now the transaction tax increases linearly - or logarithmically, when you consider the meso brackets. Even if you sell something for max meso, the tax is only 6%.
I suggest that the tax go up exponentially. For example:
| Meso amount | Tax |
| <100,000 | 0 |
| 100,000 - 999,999 | 1% |
| 1,000,000 - 9,999,999 | 2% |
| 10,000,000 - 99,999,999 | 4% |
| 100,000,000 - 999,999,999 | 8% |
| 1,000,000,000 - 9,999,999,999 | 16% |
Now, people will obviously try to avoid the higher taxes by doing multiple trades. Nexon could keep track of trades between the same two characters within a small time span (say, over the course of a day) and tax that accordingly, but tbh I seriously doubt they'd bother.
So the next step is property tax: every week during the weekly maintenance, all meso amounts in character inventories and storage will be reduced, according to a table like this:
| Total mesos in account | Tax |
| <10,000,000 | 0 |
| 10,000,000 - 99,999,999 | 1% |
| 100,000,000 - 999,999,999 | 2% |
| 1,000,000,000 - 9,999,999,999 | 4% |
| 10,000,000,000+ | 8% |
People might try to avoid that by spreading their meso among many accounts, but recall the transaction tax. It would be very tedious to try to protect your fortune all the time.
Some have suggested simply wiping all the meso in the game, or some high percentage of it. However, that would only be a temporary solution, because as long as Nexon can't get a handle on meso farmers, they'll just get inflation up and running immediately after the wipe. A weekly tax is better because it keeps the meso draining away, hopefully faster than it is generated.
The numbers I gave are only suggestions. Nexon has far more information regarding the total meso in the economy and the amount entering it every week, so they can set the tax in such a way that the total meso in the game will gradually decrease until it stabilizes at a reasonable level.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - PoetryIsFail - 2015-08-11
Lore Wrote:implying that a party of 6 people who can solo normal magnus cannot party up and match CRA,
I can solo normal magnus.
6 of me will do nothing at cRA. Thats 6 of me with perfect coordination. Thats 6 binds 6 reses 6 threatens (that stack too!). 6 Paladins who can resist %hp attacks wouldn't do diddly squat at cRA and you would know it if you've ever been.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - KhainiWest - 2015-08-11
Lore Wrote:You appear to have fade memories of what you yourself played even, how do you claim to be reliable? (I think this is disrespectful towards your perception, whereas I didn't state "I disrespect you", just so you understand)
I run the southperry skype chat, people still play and talk about maplestory, if I really wanted to get into the very specifics of the issues, I'd just have [MENTION=1747]Grey[/MENTION]; speak on my behalf. But lets face it, generally maplestory has colossal issues since the introduction to potential.
Lore Wrote:When people geared up (very heavily) to make bossing possible/faster, not only to grind more efficiently as you say (however a lukless 14x bishop with genesis30 and full int scrolled gear could really outdo a normal level 200 bishop), and when certain jobs were required to HP wash to even be able to face certain bosses (BG, pink bean, in some cases even horntail). You don't remember?
There was no "have too", it's what people did when they were funding their secondary characters, or wanted to put their funds towards, hp washing was a luxury not a necessity (see potential). Also levels mattered then because the 5 ap points you got had relevance. Potential took that away, big time, along with the atrocious amount of attack. So a statless class was clearly better because back then 100 AP was more rewarding than the current level gear (assuming you're talking about the sauna generation).
Also Pink bean was a boss introduced as something unkillable until the release of potential/big bang. I was one of the people who was banned for attempting to kill it, why? We got too close. Think about that for a sec, they introduced a boss, that was intentionally unkillable to make you invest into the upgrades, and the squads that got close got perma banned as "hackers".
Lore Wrote:You were the n1 drk, kudos. Zero relevance. I was nothing and now without spending a single cent I am the 3rd drk in my server, where drk is abused by overpayers and where the cap damage is 50mil. As pointless as you in this thread. Now find me a level 170 who can outdamage a level 250. And find me a name of one person who leveled 1-200 before big bang in a week.
It's very relevant because as someone who "beat the game", my opinion has more value than yours regarding this. Yeah you're top 3 drk in a dead server, impressive, big frog in a small pond I suppose. I'd love too, if I knew anymore people post level 200 who play anymore, but at that point AP stats are irrelevant, it's about gear, potential on gear and the base % damage you do on said class. You're talking minimum difference.
I said 2011, not "pre big bang", some girl named Kimi was making 200's every week because she was farming BF 12 hours a day, she had every class at 200 last I checked, before luminous I think. Back then you had 2x coupons, family buffs and monsters like BF to ridiculous level too.
Lore Wrote:You are unable to see that making potential more available to everyone, which is what they're doing, is a viable solution too. It will take longer to fix than wiping everything, but if you are the kind of person that bombs around at the first (big) obstacle then I'm happy I'm not you. I don't even need to call you names after you openly attacked me during a discussion with someone else. We have a very different idea of respect, good for me that you don't care of my server and I don't care about you.
Totes, that's why Reboot exists right? Let's totally make every person in the game able to solo the boss, that's healthy for MMORPG's. It is not a solution, it's appeasing to those who still play because the population is so small they can't honestly expect them to find parties to do anything. Also first obstacle?
-Meso generator issues for years
-Dupe issues for years, removal of MTS because of it
-database links
-Mass unbannings of known hackers because convenience.
Lore Wrote:Nexon Korea proved to be able to listen to their playerbase. You say it's worthless to try, then what do you want to do? You are very good at steaming off, but terrible at proposing. There are 3 things you can do in this condition,
- either you throwdesk and start raging, which is what you do, but if you really loved maplestory you would try out your best to get it to work again, if you did I don't know but as I understand from the aforementioned "change of president" you tried it in the wrong moment,
- either you start taking down ideas for big changes, which you labeled as wasted effort, maybe with Nexon AM I don't know but in Korea it actually can get results, some will remain dreams but some might be considered (if delivered through the right channels, and let's not start a discussion about this),
- either you try out solutions in the present and if you find anything that works you pass it to other people so if they want they can try it out, which is what I did by expressing my (you don't understand the word) opinion. And by doing this I don't speak on behalf of anyone except me and myself only, you can go on thinking that you bring the ideals of the old-but-good maple community, but guess what, I'm a part of that community yet here I am.
I was friends with both of the late community managers who left, I had a letter translated and sent to Korea on Nexon's dime, (emailed more like), took me about a year and a half to get my foot in the door to make that process possible.
Lore Wrote:The only thing I get away with is your suggestion to quit, because as it appears I'm trying to bring on a discussion which, since the moment you started handling it, is directionless. I have been warned and received an infraction, it's a sign that my posts have been considered unsuitable so better cut that off. I don't care the slightest if people give my posts a bad reputation, it means they disagree, okay. I know that what I did is right and I tried to suggest it - it didn't work. I will just go back to enjoy what I was doing and let you boil, if that's what you want.
I don't think you know how forums work, you attacked another user, hypocritically mind you, I pointed it out, and you think this is some A to B conversation with no context besides I don't like your opinion. Your interpretation is baffling.
Lore Wrote:Insightful.
It's against the rules to edit posts out like this, probably should read them, is that why you aren't basilmarket?
-
Lore Wrote:Also, to the 65k > 200k range in 3-4 months, it may be seen as a poor increase if you look it with the eyes of a 2-2, but looking at it down from the 65k that's triple the damage. At the cost of time, it doesn't seem bad. Triple it twice more and you get 1.8mil range in the time span of a year. How far would you get playing 6 hours a day in the old maple? If a bishop on 43x exp required 16 hours to do 199-200, and 43x is not really your daily exp multiplicator, maths is up to you. Enjoy your visual progress of 80 level up screenshots taken during a year's (more likely 2) time in the same map, doing the same thing. I personally enjoy more progressing on my own gear, but yeah, opinions. I even liked pre-bb but now come tell me grinding years at skeles was nice and fun anyone.
edit: one thing you GMSsians might look into could be a different star force system, if it's even wanted and possible to get a change in that. I believe KMS's works as a very good meso sink and good to take away equips from the market too (due to the booming), EMS's is much affordable by poorer players whereas it offers an excellent equips trash bin (for example to empty the free market of all trash flamed cra).
Except you kind of don't know math, of course the smaller damage is going to multiply quicker, but the return is going to diminish once you approach that 150% potential threshold, I mean that's like, basic ratio math for gods sake.
Character leveling was progression, it took actual, I don't know, playing the game. You're comparing something like that, to f`ucking scrolling. If they were comparable the population wouldn't have dropped so drastically, I mean dude, we're talking about 80-90% threshold here, I'm not exaggerating. People (GMS specifically) are not happy with the game, they gotten bored of it, they look forward to MS2, they look forward to reboot, you are a very, very small minority.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - Lore - 2015-08-11
I do realize I'm in the minority, I expressed myself because I believe it's not worth letting it die like this. I've been striving ever since 2008 in my server (1st anniversary), it's indeed emptier than before but I would not define it dead. And littlest offtopic, I'm not in basilmarket because I don't like it. I joined only to comment on the EMS PvP thread and haven't entered ever since.
Justin Wrote:Unfortunately, that is not how it works... getting range gets increasingly difficult, not less difficult, as it gets higher, as after a point you must either rescroll your current equips, regamble your current potentials for higher tiers with better lines, or outright replace the equipment for better base stat equips (And then start the whole process over). At his pace it would take a heck of a lot longer than just 1 year to reach 1.8mil range.
There are a number of great suggestions that have been brought up already, and I've got some myself:
Add a coin shop for PQs (Both world PQ and in-house PQs should distribute these coins) and allow players to buy cubes and or scrolls (Maybe epic potential scrolls or unique at a very high cost?)
Scale down the ridiculous damage and make bosses REQUIRE multiple people to kill again (This would never happen, but it's a suggestion)
Add. In. Meso. Sinks. Maplestory has not ONCE in the 12 damn years it's been released had an actual meso sink with a decent selection of items. Put cubes, soul shards, inventory expansions in there and make them cost a decent amount. (Enough to where they take some time, but not 10 hours for a single damn cube) The mesos in the economy constantly switching hands and nothing else alongside the rampant botting has made them next to worthless.
I'll try to think of some more later.
Sadly party bosses are very hard to feature nowadays because either they are like RA, as in you can party up but you will end up ditching the party and go solo, or like Lotus, where by party you mean 3-4 people who cap and the rest who support. There is always a way to avoid the system. Some time ago in EMS (allow me to) we had a bug that caused Magnus to go "berserk" if a member stayed dead for longer than x seconds (basically you had the same effect as you have when you run out of lives). If you want to force party play, you may add a system that works around that - if a member stops attacking for x time, the whole party gets kicked out. However that's pretty drastic, and if one accidentally has to go afk then the entire crew is damned. But I'm afraid you cannot simply encourage party play enough to make everyone actually play it.
I'm not in GMS, I know one of the worst problems is the amount of meso. That's why I suggested a new star force system, because yours works only as a meso sink to do 10>15 stars whereas if you had more stars available (maybe you can suggest that to NexonNA?) you would need more meso to progress, more clean equips due to the booms (clean FM of all the clean cra that remains unsold) and even more meso due to restarting from 0 stars (very massive meso sink in the long run). Or suggest adding a system, like in KMS (I think it eventually went live?), that allows players to trade in mesos for maple points. What is a better meso sink than making maple points available for big sums of meso? If maple points are "too much" (as in you kill the purpose of using real cash, we know it will never happen with nexon), add a (yet again) new currency that is useable for certain goods only (f.ex cubes/psok and the similar).
However, as many measures you may take, if the situation of botters is so downhill, then a solution should be found for that in the first place, and only then to drain the meso. Otherwise you just take meso away from normal players while abusers get even more, which at the end disadvantages those who don't have it anymore, and the black market grows.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - TheBlackMage - 2015-08-11
About party play, I don't think Nexon knows how to do a decent/OK party play.
MS2 is the best evidence, so far I've noticed no reason to party up with someone and kill stuff, Let me elaborate... nothing changed from solo play, Do mind that since the moment I got out of lith harbor I was in a party of two.
However I didn't feel like the party benefited us much, I didn't feel like the exp was better or worse, our map coverage was alright and nothing really changed.
But ignoring mobs, let's talk bossing.
MS2 and MS1 suffer from the same issue. Bosses are poorly designed. If MS1 has stupid scaling wait until you see MS2... 2 million HP on level 15~20 bosses, not even that late in the god damn game, WHEN YOU HIT 100's on the darn things.
Forcing you into "party play" bossing isn't a good thing either, I was actually very happy back when you fight that Bear boss with 8k hp in lith or was it the previous place before lith? Anyways it was fairly challenging and fun, but then the next boss you encounter has 2 million hp?! What the pineapple Nexon? I don't want to go to CH1 and search for 100 people circlejerking around the damn boss and "feel" like I am doing some party play, that's not the damn answer.
Even with 10 friends it would take too much time. See? Scaling is an issue for them.
Sure you shouldn't expect to solo everything but there's a line for off-brand "party play" as well.
MS1 still has somewhat decent party play without forking people entirely, two not so funded players can still have fun bossing.
Both games are the far edge of the spectrum but somehow I feel like MS1 is closer to the middle.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - SaptaZapta - 2015-08-11
TheBlackMage Wrote:About party play, I don't think Nexon knows how to do a decent/OK party play.
MS2 is the best evidence, so far I've noticed no reason to party up with someone and kill stuff, Let me elaborate... nothing changed from solo play, Do mind that since the moment I got out of lith harbor I was in a party of two.
However I didn't feel like the party benefited us much, I didn't feel like the exp was better or worse, our map coverage was alright and nothing really changed.
But ignoring mobs, let's talk bossing.
MS2 and MS1 suffer from the same issue. Bosses are poorly designed. If MS1 has stupid scaling wait until you see MS2... 2 million HP on level 15~20 bosses, not even that late in the god damn game, WHEN YOU HIT 100's on the darn things.
Forcing you into "party play" bossing isn't a good thing either, I was actually very happy back when you fight that Bear boss with 8k hp in lith or was it the previous place before lith? Anyways it was fairly challenging and fun, but then the next boss you encounter has 2 million hp?! What the pineapple Nexon? I don't want to go to CH1 and search for 100 people circlejerking around the damn boss and "feel" like I am doing some party play, that's not the damn answer.
Even with 10 friends it would take too much time. See? Scaling is an issue for them.
Sure you shouldn't expect to solo everything but there's a line for off-brand "party play" as well.
MS1 still has somewhat decent party play without forking people entirely, two not so funded players can still have fun bossing.
Both games are the far edge of the spectrum but somehow I feel like MS1 is closer to the middle.
They used to know how to do it.
From the legendary Gobi parties, through Newties and Skeles, and right up to Lion King Castle, training in a party had definite benefits over training alone.
The key was big maps, low mobility, or high enemy HP. You couldn't possibly kill everything on your own, so having someone else (or several people) killing on other parts of the map gave you more experience than you lost to them.
It can still happen today. Warrior Grounds, for example, is big enough for two. But the per-kill exp there was nerfed so hard that people would rather solo SDH.
I've tried the new Scrapyard and while solo it's horrible exp for me as a Hero, I believe that if I could get a party where each took charge of a platform, it would be much better.
Unfortunately, again, SDH is so much easier for people (and their HS and Kishin mules) that few want to go to Scrapyard, alone or in groups.
It doesn't help that Scrapyard apparently has glitchy anti-hacking measures that disconnect people who kill too fast.
As for bossing, again, they used to know how to do it.
Remember HT? Remember when you needed warriors to kill the tail, because it would smash anyone else to bits? Remember when you needed someone really tanky for sed mule, and a healer to keep them alive? Remember when an NL didn't go anywhere without a bowman to SE them? Remember when it mattered which HT head reflected weapon attack and which reflected magic attack?
Classes had roles then. You needed a whole squad for HT, not just because it had too much HP for one person to defeat in reasonable time, but because each part of the fight had a class best suited for it.
Remember PB, and all the strategizing going on before it was finally defeated (and after)? Windia didn't just send their 30 top DPS'ers to whack at it 'til it died. It wouldn't have worked. They, again, had different classes do specialized things at just the right time.
The closest thing we have to that now is bringing 3 different binders to keep the boss sedated while the one capping attacker drains its HP.
I don't know whether they can bring back true class roles. We'll see when Ursus shows up, whether it's just a big sack of HP with %HP moves, or something requiring cooperation of different abilities.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - Justin - 2015-08-11
TheBlackMage Wrote:I don't know what's wrong with GMS' economy although some things are obvious and they are clearly nexon america's fault, For example the simple fact you guys don't have flames, as someone mentioned, All CRA is pretty much the same and worthless, GMS lacks variety, However how is that fair to say when Gollux exists? Gollux is a fairly decent money maker. Can someone even pin-point the problem with GMS' economy? Is it really the amount of meso? Or something else.
I hadn't even thought about additional options, but that's actually a really good point - I think having that would actually give a lot of value back to generic lower level equips and would help players both grind for their own gear and help players make a bit of money by selling off said equips. It would also give cRA and empress equips some value again depending on how they roll. So that's a pretty good suggestion right there.
The biggest thing though is they need to get the botting under control. There are more bots out there in the maps than there are regular players at all times of the day. So I'm thinking that needs to be taken care of before any real solutions can be tinkered around with and tried out.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - Niernen - 2015-08-11
SaptaZapta Wrote:The problem with whatever meso sinks we have is that they hurt the poor worse than they hurt the rich.
For example, the cost of revealing "high level" equipment. Yes, it adds up when you're cubing your Tyrants to legendary. But it also adds up when you're just a poor newbie trying to find 3% mainstat Pensalir gear (which costs 10x as much to reveal as you get from NPC'ing it when you discover the potential sucks).
I believe what the game needs is exponentially increasing taxes.
Right now the transaction tax increases linearly - or logarithmically, when you consider the meso brackets. Even if you sell something for max meso, the tax is only 6%.
I suggest that the tax go up exponentially.
Now, people will obviously try to avoid the higher taxes by doing multiple trades. Nexon could keep track of trades between the same two characters within a small time span (say, over the course of a day) and tax that accordingly, but tbh I seriously doubt they'd bother.
So the next step is property tax: every week during the weekly maintenance, all meso amounts in character inventories and storage will be reduced, according to a table like this:
People might try to avoid that by spreading their meso among many accounts, but recall the transaction tax. It would be very tedious to try to protect your fortune all the time.
Some have suggested simply wiping all the meso in the game, or some high percentage of it. However, that would only be a temporary solution, because as long as Nexon can't get a handle on meso farmers, they'll just get inflation up and running immediately after the wipe. A weekly tax is better because it keeps the meso draining away, hopefully faster than it is generated.
The numbers I gave are only suggestions. Nexon has far more information regarding the total meso in the economy and the amount entering it every week, so they can set the tax in such a way that the total meso in the game will gradually decrease until it stabilizes at a reasonable level.
An exponential tax isn't a bad idea, but each tax bracket should only apply to the amount in the bracket and not the total, e.g: a transaction for 11m would tax the first 999,999 by 1%, the 1m-9,999,999 by 2%, and the 10-11m by 4%, vs taxing the whole amount by 4%.
I don't think a property tax is a great idea, active players would likely make up the small loses, and it would probably only hurt the less active players. No one wants to come back after a week or month and find 10% of their mesos missing. It may not end up being huge amounts, but to the people that play less often or earn slower it hurts more.
Until they can really get rid of meso farmers the whole economy isn't really going to change, mesos will keep inflating.
TidusLoveYuna Wrote:by the level of tensions and arguments in this thread it just shows how passionate people are for this game for both sides those who love and hate it. ppl who dont care about the game wouldnt bother posting anything here anyway.
Pretty much, although it has been an interesting read.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - SkyTheBM - 2015-08-11
May as well give some suggestions, specifically for bossing.
General: Get rid of most of the one shot attacks and give a global potion cooldown in bossing. Get rid of EXP loss in bossing, and all bosses should have a life counter of at least 3, especially ones with Damage Reflect. EDIT: Also, increase the cap (or remove the cap) for weapon/magic defense and get rid of all the %HP attacks, making defense actually useful.
Zakum: The physical ignore and magical ignore buffs need to go. There's no point in them for such an old boss, and no point in general. Wee, you can't attack for 30 seconds...
Horntail: Same here. Also, Horntail needs a Soul.
Hilla: Hard Hilla is way too difficult and should not take EXP when you die since there's a life counter. Also, why is it called Hard and not Chaos? Needs a name change to Chaos Hilla or change all the other bosses to match. No point in having some bosses called Hard and some bosses called Chaos.
Root Abyss: No qualms here, except make the Chaos bosses have a little less HP?
Von Leon: Get rid of the EXP loss, perhaps add a Chaos version that directly drops the Von Leon equipment?
Arkarium: Why is there instant deaths that you can't do almost anything about? It would be less of an issue if Ark didn't forcibly take your EXP through these unavoidable deaths.
Magnus: Easy is...well...easy enough. No complaints. About normal mode: one thing that I've never got. Blue meteors should do 75% HP damage and not one hit. Hard mode is alright, I guess, but its name should be streamlined with the other names instead of being one of the four or so bosses that are "Hard" and the rest are "Chaos".
Pink Bean: We're getting a life counter soon, so that's fine. The Pink Bean battle itself...I don't have much of an issue with it. Damage reflect should have a timeable...timer. Right now it has like 5 different timers based on its HP that's all over the place. Quite annoying.
Empress: Easy mode, please. Significantly increase the drop rates of Empress gear, so they can flow into the market and be somewhat useful. Make sure they drop from Easy mode as well, but at a decently reduced rate, but not too rare where it takes 4 weeks to get one single equip that's not for your class. Nowadays people just use the Pensalir equipment instead of Empress because it's A) not worth finding Empress equips as you can just level to 150 like mad and B) the Empress equipment drop rate is too darn low for something that's not worth it unless if the rate was high and obtainable. You can only really get 2-4 Empress equips per week, if you're lucky.
Lotus: Needs an easy mode! Normal mode is crazy enough for a "Normal" boss. Hard mode needs to a name change like the other Hard bosses. About the Hard mode battle itself...it's literally impossible. Needs a significant nerf. Enough said. Needs a name streamline.
Gollux: Pretty good. I think Hell Gollux's jewel should be nerfed a bit, though.
Ranmaru: No issues here, except I think Normal Ranmaru's EXP should be increased. Change to "Chaos" or change everything else to "Hard.
Princess No: Increase the Altar key drop rate to at least 80%, if not 100%. Right now it's "very very very low". I ran 20+ times under 2x and spider, and finally got it. It wouldn't be bad if Princess No gave always good items, but yeah...you can get "Restorative items". You know how that goes. Also, repeated runs within a certain timeframe glitch the NPC after you defeat her, meaning...you get absolutely nothing.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - jakbeer - 2015-08-11
I don't think meso taxes should be modified, since it would hurt a lot of legits. I suppose an addition of captchas when performing trade requests, NPC shops, or storage would be useful. When a Demon Slayer bot returns to town to sell eqps/ potions or the etc. slot, it would be stuck at the captcha. I was thinking about KMS's captcha in the hunting grounds, but it would interfere with looting and training.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - SaptaZapta - 2015-08-11
jakbeer Wrote:I don't think meso taxes should be modified, since it would hurt a lot of legits. I suppose an addition of captchas when performing trade requests, NPC shops, or storage would be useful. When a Demon Slayer bot returns to town to sell eqps/ potions or the etc. slot, it would be stuck at the captcha. I was thinking about KMS's captcha in the hunting grounds, but it would interfere with looting and training.
Legits have too many meso too.
That's part of the problem.
For years they have sold items for max meso, or multiples of max meso, because there were too many meso floating around, and their items were worth that much.
As long as these people are able to pay "name your price" in meso for anything they want (be it clean slates or NX), prices can't go down for everyone else.
If in 6 months everyone in the game has only 10% of the meso they have now*, the rich would still be richer than everyone else - but the prices on everything will necessarily go down, and valuable items will no longer be a pain to sell for meso due to being worth more than 10b.
*not exactly, of course. The idea of progressive taxes is that those people who barely have enough meso to buy mastery books and potions, will keep all their meso. People who are just a step above that will lose very little of what they have. But the ones who have stockpiled hundreds of billions will have to let go of most of it, if the economy is ever to become normal again.
[Rant] This game's practically dead in terms of actual content. - TheBlackMage - 2015-08-11
I think the biggest problem for GMS besides botters is how the gear progression is. And it hurts the economy.
Let me explain, I've noticed a very clear pattern with equips in GMS, Let's start with everyday bossing, I'll just talk about our basic bosses here; Zak/HT/Easy Magnus/RA and some other bosses. Along with how nexon america screwed up thier sense of progression with leveling.
First of all, in KMS due to strange cubes, flames, potions BEFORE BOSS DROPS, CH coins > Traces, etc a player makes at least 20~35m per day by killing those bosses regardless of thier difficulty, seems puny? No it is not the KMS economy is very deflated, but before I explain about why it isn't puny, we need to understand one thing; The gear in GMS is pineappleed up. As simple as that it's a huge problem for GMS, Here's the pattern I've noticed ;
- Mystic Eye and Face acc are very common in KMS, crappy FLAMED (which I've forementioned in this thread) ones are at least 2.5m, it can reach up to 60m for nicely flamed ones or heck even more, and you are able to exploit traces + SF to make even more profit, This is somewhat negated by sweetwater eye acc and face acc? Understand what I am talking about? No?
-Crystal Ventus Badge, this is a big money maker here, it drops from all versions of Magnus, a clean one remains even now, one year after the SF update that it came with, at least 35m~40m, +1 matk is 60m~70m and +1 atk is at least 70m. This is outclassed by ghost badge, once again GMS scores a goal in its own economy and gear.
-HT earrings same as the badge, badly flammed ones vary in price however it's usually 10m, nicely flamed are 50m, very well flamed (flamed = dropped), are 110m. so outclassed by Gollux which is pineappleing OP no matter what.
-HT Ring, at least 5m, 3% stat can be 15~20m, not sure about this interaction in GMS.
-PB chalice, Alright so some ideas we need to understand, PB isn't very hard anyone with 300k range can solo it, now here's the deal, reaching 300k range in a month is doable in KMS, without spending 20 hours/day.
Now before I explain about the chalice and how its prices work, we need to understand the KMS gear progression is (Also a living example is [MENTION=5798]Kobe[/MENTION]; he got like 110k range in a week on a "new" account), CRA varies and A LOT, it's not as linear as gms, ones cra can be traced and be godly, something which doesn't apply for GMS, thanks to primes.
GMS negates sensible progression with the lack of flames, and how worthless it makes traces be, a new player with just very simple gear can kill zak every day and slowly progress and have 100m meso or more, and buy crappy cra, trace it, have at least 70% boss damage (once again 60% from CRA, 10% FROM BOSS SET WHICH GMS UNDERMINES), and have decent range, and still go on from there. there's more to elaborate on but I could write a book on this. Getting 300k isn't hard.
And then a player enjoys another 20~30 coins (100 traces), 2m from potions, and chalice drop from PB, which is at least 30m for crappy, 60m for decent, 120m for great.
From there you can work your way to Magnus and make nice money thanks to nova (If you get lucky), 5 star novas are 180m, psok is 60m or cheaper.
Also all these prices vary from time to time, right now they are cheaper as the economy is very deflated, but the general consensus is those prices.
Also notice how all of this gear can drop on your own mules and so on, very important, why? because new KMS players can still enjoy the game from a single yes a single ZAK run if they get lucky and worst case, they still make quite a bit of money, GMS keeps scoring its own goal alongside with no flames which severely hurt the QoL of the game.
Then we have more gear, such as meister = Useless in GMS/Outclassed by Gollux, and it's a very capable gear in KMS, nearly everybody tries to make thier mesiter well done at least.
And so on...
This hurts or well therefore lack of what I've talked about hurts the economy and new players.
Now about prices? meister cube = 20m, red cube = 25m, royal coupon (nice and rare nx) = 40m, meister ring 560m, meister shoulder 160m, cra set (that sucks) ~50m, nice cra set 400m, ok finally you aren't a scrub cra set = 1b, alright I finally got rich and can have nice cra (No weapon here though) = 3B and it gives a lot of range.
I think we get the idea, don't we?
Now we got leveling, I still remember when I was a bit younger for hating this change in KMS during Unlimited, I condemned the dam'n update for this... they've made all boss exp and such, 1/10th of the original value. Now I understand why, GMS has pineappleed up leveling, during march of this year, I've trained a mechnaic for fun in GMS, and once I got to 100, I abused the exp events and got to 120 in what? 15 minutes? 2 zaks and some MPE... In KMS 100~120 takes at least 1 hour and then you need to have decently SF'd gear/Be smart about how you train.
120 is an hour, ok that's still very fast, you say? Well it gets HELLish from here, [MENTION=5798]Kobe[/MENTION]; on his new account just quit after 140, DIPQ here is NERFED, something that doesn't apply to GMS.
I am sure we all know how it goes from 14x in gms don't we? It's way harder here in KMS, and it makes you apperciate those levels up, also hyper stat was awesome, I really enjoyed trying my DS (153) with 5 points into hyper DF, really made me happy it got to at least 150 and I could max those points, it made such a great difference.
GMS isn't dynamic about how levels work, and so with the maps, SF maps were OP for an entire year, but nexon changed it a bit, and gave some SF maps a new life, along with some other maps they've SF'd.
I won't even talk about lower levels, gms is just a joke in this sense, 0 variety, 0 originallity within the community.
Also weapons are not solely judged by whether they are primed or not. God damn it GMS, pomegranatetest variety of weapon scrolls I've ever seen.
Sure gear is a bit linear but thanks to flame, the in-gear variety is huge.
Well I am too lazy to talk about how gear works before 150, but 120~150 isn't fun.
Yeah money relies on RNG but it's fine, you can still buy one cube per day with one hour of effort and log off. Merching is another important skill, also lack of auction hurts GMS a lot but I've gotten lazy now
This entire thing reminds me of, Stock (Google's clean) Android (NexonKR) VS OEM (NexonAM) (Samsung,LG,HTC etc) Android, it seems like, the changes made by
Why I've made this post? loliambored