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+--- Thread: [CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing (/showthread.php?tid=64727)
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - Takebacker - 2013-06-07
Girasol Wrote:And uhhh...the damage cap/200+ level content going into CMS is from KMS??
In KMS the damage cap was just 1 million and it becomes 50 million all the time with no effort. In CMS it seems it is based on the weapon, 5 million for using a level 140 piece, or 10 million for a 150 piece.
Many players including myself are capable of hitting 1 million very easily with items as low as level 120 so even though to get stronger we need the best stuff anyway it is unfair that a clean fafnir weapon can give me more damage than a perfected legendary potential reverse weapon just because one of them is limited by a damage cap.
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - Grey - 2013-06-07
YennoX Wrote:Then like I asked before, would you rather that the level 3 link skills didn't exist and you get NO REWARD AT ALL for going beyong 200, like in KMS?
That's not a very good reason for Level 3 Links to be at 210, mostly because, well, you just asked an Aran, and they don't have a Link Skill, in fact, most characters don't.
What? The lucky few who happened to main a class with a link skill should be rewarded while everyone else who wants to level past 200 gets nothing? I would say it'd probably be better for everyone to get nothing rather than a few people get a special reward in that case.
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - Blunderr - 2013-06-07
Arrol Wrote:Here's what Girasol said in Nexon Forums, maybe it'll help a bit?
http://maplestory.nexon.net/Community/#%2Fshowthread.php%3F870140-GMS-Unlimited-Spoilers-o%2Fpage4%26nxid%3D6
I don't know what to believe anymore
I hope they do this right >.<
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - YennoX - 2013-06-07
iAmFear Wrote:That's not a very good reason for Level 3 Links to be at 210, mostly because, well, you just asked an Aran, and they don't have a Link Skill, in fact, most characters don't.
What? The lucky few who happened to main a class with a link skill should be rewarded while everyone else who wants to level past 200 gets nothing? I would say it'd probably be better for everyone to get nothing rather than a few people get a special reward in that case.
Please don't get me started on all the things I hate about the 'If I don't have it, they shouldn't either! If they have it, then I should too' line of thinking.
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - Locked - 2013-06-07
[MENTION=9241]YennoX[/MENTION]; I don't think you're making any strong points and it's silly to keep going. I don't even think you understand the opposing point of view.
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - YennoX - 2013-06-07
Locked Wrote:[MENTION=9241]YennoX[/MENTION]; I don't think you're making any strong points and it's silly to keep going. I don't even think you understand the opposing point of view.
And likewise, you clearly don't understand mine. What's your point?
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - Alloy - 2013-06-07
Girasol Wrote:I am confused why you guys are upset about the Level 3 link skills? It's not like we're nerfing the current Level 2 link skills. You don't HAVE to level up your link skill alts if you don't want to.
It's what I call completionist syndrome. If you set a challenging goal, people will like it. If you set up ridiculous to reach goals, like leveling people past the current goal without "checkpoints", people will just say "screw it" and not attempt it at all. It'd be like ignored content. Just consider there's 90 levels that contribute nothing to the linked character. 80 if you use that character as a card. And it's the hardest possible levels to do so.
If lv 3 link skills were at lv 170, and lv 4 at 210, people wouldn't complain, I'm sure, and they would surely even try to achieve it.
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - Shanessa - 2013-06-07
YennoX Wrote:Please don't get me started on all the things I hate about the 'If I don't have it, they shouldn't either! If they have it, then I should too' line of thinking.
Snaps for you, you're a special snowflake who has the dream of hitting 210. YAY snaps for you, -snaps-, the problem with these level 3 link skills is that they don't belong. They don't belong in any sense of the word, they especially do not belong at level 210. I feel like you're saying this because you think it's easy to hit 210, it's not. His argument isn't the "If I don't have it, they shouldn't either!" as he's not arguing that all link skills should be taken away, he's arguing a reasonable point. It's dumb to have a reward for players who play new classes, and have link skills. Link skills are a reward, despite you trying to refute them as being just something there, take Kannas 10% damage link skill, 15% damage is very nice, and will help your damage insanely. Even phantoms 20% Crit (with the level 3 link) will help your range, as you can hit crit 100% of the time. Your point is moot. Kthx.
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - Evolite - 2013-06-07
[video=youtube;BP-r6rzIWtI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=BP-r6rzIWtI[/video]
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - Crowhogan33 - 2013-06-07
![[Image: 0zH2uf2.png]](http://i.imgur.com/0zH2uf2.png)
This came out bad, but for a general idea, this is what I'd like to see (the other 2 hotkeys would need to fit in there). Some things would need to be resized, like the HP/MP bar. The hotkeys at the bottom were useless (at least my opinion they were). We could still have them for the 13xx resolution, but just do what kms did and put them to the right.
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - YennoX - 2013-06-07
Shanessa Wrote:Snaps for you, you're a special snowflake who has the dream of hitting 210. YAY snaps for you, -snaps-, the problem with these level 3 link skills is that they don't belong. They don't belong in any sense of the word, they especially do not belong at level 210. I feel like you're saying this because you think it's easy to hit 210, it's not. His argument isn't the "If I don't have it, they shouldn't either!" as he's not arguing that all link skills should be taken away, he's arguing a reasonable point. It's dumb to have a reward for players who play new classes, and have link skills. Link skills are a reward, despite you trying to refute them as being just something there, take Kannas 10% damage link skill, 15% damage is very nice, and will help your damage insanely. Even phantoms 20% Crit (with the level 3 link) will help your range, as you can hit crit 100% of the time. Your point is moot. Kthx.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that I said 210 was easy. If anything, I've been saying that level 3 links are supposed to be difficult to obtain, and not everyone and their grandmothers should expect to get them--at least not without putting in some work.
People seem to be thinking that the benefits of the level 3 links are exclusive only to the class that has them. No. If you want the link skill, you can make the class yourself and link them over to your main. If you're dedicated enough and value to the benefits of having a level 3 link, no one is stopping you. If you make it that far, then you deserve the link.
The problem arises when some individuals think they are entitled to a level 3 link--and feel entitled to it with a level of work based on standards set by themselves based on their own playing patterns.
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - Arrol - 2013-06-07
YennoX Wrote:I'm not sure where you got the idea that I said 210 was easy. If anything, I've been saying that level 3 links are supposed to be difficult to obtain, and not everyone and their grandmothers should expect to get them--at least not without putting in some work.
If they want to make Link skills difficult to obtain, they can do a WHOLE lot more than just simply level up and if they do want us to level up to an obscene amount, they could at least make the rewards worth getting so it makes sense that it is difficult. Take Luminous' link skill, it's level 3 link skill will give you 20% PDR, a 5% increase over 15%. It's a cakewalk with 70 and 120, 210 is a whole 'nother story. Link Skills are not meant to be OP buffs, more like aids for the common Mapler. Again, if they were meant to be difficult to obtain, they should have done much more methods other than level up, which anyone can do. You really think anyone would go 90 levels for something like 20% PDR ignore? That 5% will barely make any difference.
Now that I checked, the only link skill I can think of that might justify requiring a higher level is AB's link skill, because according to it's formula, it it'll increase your range by 120% for 10 sec.
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - Grey - 2013-06-07
YennoX Wrote:I'm not sure where you got the idea that I said 210 was easy. If anything, I've been saying that level 3 links are supposed to be difficult to obtain, and not everyone and their grandmothers should expect to get them--at least not without putting in some work.
People seem to be thinking that the benefits of the level 3 links are exclusive only to the class that has them. No. If you want the link skill, you can make the class yourself and link them over to your main. If you're dedicated enough and value to the benefits of having a level 3 link, no one is stopping you. If you make it that far, then you deserve the link.
The problem arises when some individuals think they are entitled to a level 3 link--and feel entitled to it with a level of work based on standards set by themselves based on their own playing patterns.
The problem is, whether you see it or not, your posts imply that anything but 210 would be too easy. It's not exactly entitled for people to want it to be lower (especially considering how small the bonuses would be), like 150 or 180, it's not as difficult, but it's not a cake walk either. Honestly, I don't know how difficult or easy it is for other people to level, I mean, when I want to get a new character to 200, I just do it, but that's just me, and that's just the crowd I run with. But, and this is just my assumption here, I don't think new players could possibly do that, not with the ease at which I do, even some old players. Some people don't even have 1 level 200 character, some people have a level 200, but not a character that could grant a link skill, for them, 180 is probably a realistic, obtainable goal, 210 is just daunting, especially since it's already higher than the current cap, which they have not reached.
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - SaptaZapta - 2013-06-07
Takebacker Wrote:Many players including myself are capable of hitting 1 million very easily with items as low as level 120 so even though to get stronger we need the best stuff anyway it is unfair that a clean fafnir weapon can give me more damage than a perfected legendary potential reverse weapon just because one of them is limited by a damage cap.
This.
The 1m damage cap is too low.
We've had people here demonstrate hitting it with zero-attack or level 10 weapons. With everything from hats to shoes legitimately having attack on it nowadays, it's not even hard.
I myself hit cap with a mere Lunchbox and no empress/fafnir/tyrant gear whatsoever.
Requiring us to get a new weapon (and pay to scroll and cube it) just to be allowed to do the damage we paid for already, is completely unfair.
[MENTION=10355]Girasol[/MENTION], please allow me to decide when I feel my current gear has reached its limits and I need to replace it if I want to get stronger. Don't use completely artificial limits. Believe me, people who are currently hitting cap, are the sort of people who will continue to upgrade. Trying to force them to do it will only piss them/us off.
As for the level 3 link skills.... Don't you know by now how obsessive people on Maple get? Knowing there's a buff one could get if one only puts in the work (hours and hours and hours of the most repetitive grinding known to mapler) would be very hard to tolerate. They might be driven to buy 2x cards... or to botting, leeching, or worse. 150 sounds about right, it's high enough to really get a feel for the link-skill character, maybe even to cube its gear so it can train. 180? Eh, for that, level 3 skill better double what 2 gives. 210? You crazy? When the vast majority of Maplers still can't get a single character to 200? No. Just no. Better to not have level 3 at all than to dangle it out of reach like that.
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - Takebacker - 2013-06-07
YennoX Wrote:People seem to be thinking that the benefits of the level 3 links are exclusive only to the class that has them.
Uh no it's the opposite. That's the EXACT reason level 3 links being at 210 are a problem.
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - YennoX - 2013-06-07
Arrol Wrote:If they want to make Link skills difficult to obtain, they can do a WHOLE lot more than just simply level up and if they do want us to level up to an obscene amount, they could at least make the rewards worth getting so it makes sense that it is difficult. Take Luminous' link skill, it's level 3 link skill will give you 20% PDR, a 5% increase over 15%. It's a cakewalk with 70 and 120, 210 is a whole 'nother story. Link Skills are not meant to be OP buffs, more like aids for the common Mapler. Again, if they were meant to be difficult to obtain, they should have done much more methods other than level up, which anyone can do. You really think anyone would go 90 levels for something like 20% PDR ignore? That 5% will barely make any difference.
The fact that the last 5% isn't a huge deal is precisely why there isn't a problem with the 210 milestone. If the amount was significantly higher, people would be complaining about making the benefits too OP and making the majority of the population outright missing out. However, whilst you may think 5% isn't much in the grand scheme of things, there are inevitably some dedicated players who value that extra PDR ignore or crit rate, or whatever the perk is. Nexon is simply leaving the option open for them should they aim for it.
The vast majority of players won't be concerned with these level 3's. For those who do, or those who dislike the idea that other players are surpassing them, or rather, aim for perfection, then it's fair game for them. If they were going to reach 210 and beyond anyway, then this is a nice perk for them. If they weren't planning to go beyond 200, then perhaps the level 3's will incentivise them.
There will always be people dissatisfied with what Nexon does. There are two sides to every story. But in the case of Maple, there are a good 30+ sides because that's how many classes the developers have to appease.
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - Shanessa - 2013-06-07
YennoX Wrote:I'm not sure where you got the idea that I said 210 was easy. If anything, I've been saying that level 3 links are supposed to be difficult to obtain, and not everyone and their grandmothers should expect to get them--at least not without putting in some work.
People seem to be thinking that the benefits of the level 3 links are exclusive only to the class that has them. No. If you want the link skill, you can make the class yourself and link them over to your main. If you're dedicated enough and value to the benefits of having a level 3 link, no one is stopping you. If you make it that far, then you deserve the link.
The problem arises when some individuals think they are entitled to a level 3 link--and feel entitled to it with a level of work based on standards set by themselves based on their own playing patterns.
"If you... don't have the drive to get to 210, then I suggest you play on your own server so that you can always be the best and set your own difficulty bar--alternatively, you can go see a psychiatrist. "
That implies that it's a simple goal, "If you don't have the drive to do this then you're not trying hard enough," the whole point of link skills is to give you the option of giving them to your main, why make a skill which evolves so hard to obtain? This is like saying, anyone who doesn't play new classes can go eat dirt because new classes are obviously superior.
Let me just level all 12 link skill characters to 210, to reap the most benefits of them all. And, how you say, be worthy of having them.
Level 170 is a hard enough goal because you have to become attached to the character you're playing, due to you having to actually train it. Even level 120 is a nice challenge, albeit it's not a "difficult" challenge it still has the reward of saying, "I got to 120 on a class I utterly hated", doing that for a level 210 Xenon link skill (In my case, I hated xenon) makes no sense to me. The whole argument that "It's there you just don't have to do it" is very stupid, it would make sense to have a motto like that for skills that are generally reachable, many players haven't even got to 200, let alone will they ever reach 210. What am I to do? Just wait until another RLH event comes out and spend all my savings on it to get the best link skills? I don't think so. They're pointless. That's my opinion, and it won't change.
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - Takebacker - 2013-06-07
I really don't think anyone is saying the bonuses should change at all. Level 2 links were already a healthy boost in damage, and full level 3s would push things a bit (angelic buster, demon avenger, xenon, mikhail comes to mind), but having an account full of level 120 mules is completely different than an account full of level 210 mules which is also completely different from an account full of level 150 or 180 mules.
There's this thing in sales where you create value for the customer. Where is the value in getting to 200 much less 210 even once on a class that isn't the character i main, just so the main gets a hair stronger? If stat cap didn't exist i could just train my main to a higher level and the stats would be more valuable to me and i would be playing a class i actually like...
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - ShinkuDragon - 2013-06-07
MetaSeraphim Wrote:Personally for me.i dislike some parts of the new UI, mainly how wide everything is, and my HP being so small really annoys me, since in low HP classes i look at the % i have left to see if i should pot or not, rather than the number. i prefer kms' (and GMS) current HP and MP bars
- Hate the new UI
- Hate 210 for Level 3 on Link Skills
- Love the damage cap based on weapon (As long as Fafnir weapons become easier to get, otherwise, f'uck that noise)
I don't know how to feel about this patch.
210 is indeed too high for the small bonus they give, on the other hand, if the bonus was much greater, it would offer an even bigger unfair advantage to people who main those classes, so i also think the level should be reduced to something like 150-170, i find 170 excessive myself, but it's still less than 10 levels into the new damage cap.
not liking the damage cap on the weapon thing, i can't hit 5m yet, but if i manage to sometime (say i get some tyrant gear) at such point no matter what i upgraded, i'd be forced to upgrade my weapon if i wanted to do more damage, and upgrading a fafnir to the level of my current weapon is just too expensive, heck, if anything people would prefer to keep weapons clean with this update and focus on getting OP armor/secondaries, so that the loss from the weapon when a better one comes out isn't as big as if you had scrolled and cubed.
Justin Wrote:Er, do you seriously think most hackers even bother going for damage cap? :f6: They use hacks. They don't need high damage to kill everything in sight. And fafnir weapons are the best in the game regardless, of course everyone wants them.i think he meant "to sell them"
if hackers suddenly start selling gear that allows people to hit 10 times the current damage cap, people will jump over them like hot cakes, proof: tyrant equips from magnus
[CMST Spark Update]-Video Sharing - YennoX - 2013-06-07
Takebacker Wrote:There's this thing in sales where you create value for the customer. Where is the value in getting to 200 much less 210 on a class i hate just because i want the character i play to be stronger?
Being stronger (after reaching 210) is the value to the customer. It's just that most people do not see the benefits to be worthwhile given the effort, and some players want to make Nexon to give more value for their time, saying either one of:
- make the bonus more worthwhile
- lower the level at which you achieve the bonus
I understand the rationale behind the dissatisfaction from the players here, but I simply can't agree with these views.
Either we agree to disagree, or this could go on for another half a dozen or so pages.