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+--- Thread: More Future Job Changes? (/showthread.php?tid=47677)
More Future Job Changes? - Dark Link - 2011-10-10
>>Warriors shouldn't get mobility
>Dawn Warriors + Demon Slayers
lolwut?
Just let Warriors attack on their mounts for nerfed damage! DONE DEAL!
More Future Job Changes? - Sorien - 2011-10-10
SaptaZapta Wrote:Warriors don't need better mobility, but they should get innate 100% stance and a form of "body pressure"/touch damage.
Yes, they are slow and ponderous tanks but they should have the advantages of that. If a slime bounces into a heavily armored warrior, it's the slime that should go *splat*, not the warrior that gets knocked back, the way it is now.
When you mentioned "heavily armored", you made me think that they should turn Iron Body into a passive skill that grants +10 defense and +5% stance per level. With its maximum level of 20 it can grant a passive 100% stance in first job, along with the added bonus that warriors (Paladins in particular) can have one less buff to keep up constantly.
More Future Job Changes? - poxeclipse - 2011-10-10
Luxeraph Wrote:*Back when there was no potential system but was just being released*
So... pineapple everybody that has spent money on the game via scrolling low level equipment.? Brilliant!
Theres always going to be something like that in the future, look at the removal of the 4th tier and the addition of the legendary rank.
ChaosH Wrote:You paid to be more powerful than others players with weaker potential. You'll still be more powerful than other players with weaker potential. You never paid for specific potential. Actually, you didn't even paid for the potential, you paid for an item that resets potential.
I think you two need to actually read what is being quoted rather than blindly hitting 'reply'.
Dark Link Wrote:Yeah, because no other MMO has ever screwed people for throwing money at a F2P game, oh wait...
The fact that this somehow excuses it is appalling.
More Future Job Changes? - ChaosH - 2011-10-10
poxeclipse Wrote:I think you two need to actually read what is being quoted rather than blindly hitting 'reply'.
I read. Read it again. I don't see what's wrong with our replies :f6:
More Future Job Changes? - Viaje - 2011-10-10
SaptaZapta Wrote:Warriors don't need better mobility, but they should get innate 100% stance and a form of "body pressure"/touch damage.And they should call the skill either Power Guard or Power Reflection.
Yes, they are slow and ponderous tanks but they should have the advantages of that. If a slime bounces into a heavily armored warrior, it's the slime that should go *splat*, not the warrior that gets knocked back, the way it is now.
You know, just off the top of my head.
Sorien Wrote:When you mentioned "heavily armored", you made me think that they should turn Iron Body into a passive skill that grants +10 defense and +5% stance per level. With its maximum level of 20 it can grant a passive 100% stance in first job, along with the added bonus that warriors (Paladins in particular) can have one less buff to keep up constantly.Or just replace the skill entirely with a form of Stance.
It doesn't matter either way though since the defense given by Iron Body is rather meaningless because it's relatively small.
As for Warrior mobility...
Dark Link Wrote:Just let Warriors attack on their mounts for nerfed damage! DONE DEAL!I actually like this.
Though, to discourage an extreme nerf, I'd be willing to have mounts negate Stance.
More Future Job Changes? - Arrol - 2011-10-10
SaptaZapta Wrote:Warriors don't need better mobility, but they should get innate 100% stance and a form of "body pressure"/touch damage.
Yes, they are slow and ponderous tanks but they should have the advantages of that. If a slime bounces into a heavily armored warrior, it's the slime that should go *splat*, not the warrior that gets knocked back, the way it is now.
That "Warriors are the tanks and they should not be mobile" stereotype is getting old. Play some games lately, warriors I seen are faster and got some mobility. Name me a slow warrior nowadays.
More Future Job Changes? - Viaje - 2011-10-10
Arrol Wrote:That "Warriors are the tanks and they should not be mobile" stereotype is getting old. Play some games lately, warriors I seen are faster and got some mobility. Name me a slow warrior nowadays.It's not quite that it's old as much as it is illogical.
There's absolutely no reason to tie classes down to D&D prototypes other than sheer laziness.
None.
Maplestory is a game all its own and it should, therefore, be able to make up its own rules.
Maybe then they would stop needing to rebalance the game every six months.
It's rather sickening how little they learn from their past and how little they anticipate their future.
More Future Job Changes? - valhala556 - 2011-10-10
The revamps went from yearly (when 4th came out to the 1st revamp and the 2nd one i believe) to like every 6 monthes Big Bang-> chaos. to like 2 months Chaos->jump->legend. sooner or later theres gonna be a new revamp everyday....
More Future Job Changes? - SaptaZapta - 2011-10-11
Viaje Wrote:And they should call the skill either Power Guard or Power Reflection.
You know, just off the top of my head.
The problem with Power Guard/Reflection is that, ironically, the more heavily armored you are, the less damage you do (because the less damage you get).
I'm looking for an opposite skill, one that does damage based on your defense, which would allow a higher level warrior to just crush lower level enemies he walks through, like the tank he (supposedly) is.
More Future Job Changes? - ElTwice - 2011-10-11
and then get disconected for hacking to the old aran way
More Future Job Changes? - Exidous - 2011-10-11
Arrol Wrote:That "Warriors are the tanks and they should not be mobile" stereotype is getting old. Play some games lately, warriors I seen are faster and got some mobility. Name me a slow warrior nowadays.
Viaje Wrote:There's absolutely no reason to tie classes down to D&D prototypes other than sheer laziness.They don't have to be D&D prototypes, but are you arguing against classes actually having advantages and drawbacks?
None.
If every single class is a fast attacking mobile survivable class with a big hitbox, the game is going to get staler even faster.
And who is going to trade mobility for other advantages besides warriors? Maybe pirates, but they weren't in the game initially. Or are you arguing for no classes ever losing out on mobility? Because that also reduces the spectrum of relative advantages classes can have.
More Future Job Changes? - ElTwice - 2011-10-11
DragonsMirth Wrote:1. Return skill quests for 4th job, maybe you can have an option of starting or not, but if you finish the quests you get decent EXP or SP points like Evans. Make them more interesting and not involve only killing xxx monsters and obtaining xxx items, along with a stronger, deeper storyline for all classes (Adventurers, Resistance, etc.) Especially resistance. Story was pretty good, but it lasted until lv.30.
2. Nerf Demon Slayers and Mercedes. <--Must
3. Lower the maximum level of a lot of skills and add new skills for every single class. It's tiring and somewhat boring to level and see so little changes. We need more skills. For warriors, there can be some block skill (ie: guard at 100% chance for 1 second with 20 sec cooldown to survive the most deadly attacks), new attack skills (no more spamming Dark Impale for everything), loads of new animations (Mercedes' Dragon version of that bubble skill would be a nice animation for DK's), and less passive skills (combine Buffs/Attacks with passive skills).
4. Change some systems. Add some actual feeling of exploring/mystery to this game. Maybe make it so that you have to collect stuff/explore areas before seeing them on the World Map. Darken the screen for Monster Park and add a potion cool down. Make it like a freaking dungeon where you want to explore, kill, and not die. Make the PQ's have more puzzles, instead of a killing spam-fest, etc.
5. Change the events some more. Maybe a whole new area for the event with a unique storyline and special stuff. From the recent events KMS had, I found them preeeeety repetitive.
i agree on point 3, at 4th job is "oh i need to max say OS ->10 after lvls, oh now wut HM ->10 after lvs"; and then you realized you are at 160 with 4 skills maxed and then the road to lvl up gets harder.
All because max lvl is 30
More Future Job Changes? - Viaje - 2011-10-11
Exidous Wrote:They don't have to be D&D prototypes, but are you arguing against classes actually having advantages and drawbacks?Where? Where did I argue such a thing?
I said exactly what you quoted me as saying:
"There's absolutely no reason to tie classes down to D&D prototypes other than sheer laziness."
Exidous Wrote:If every single class is a fast attacking mobile survivable class with a big hitbox, the game is going to get staler even faster.I'd also like you to drag in the person who supposedly suggested this.
SaptaZapta Wrote:The problem with Power Guard/Reflection is that, ironically, the more heavily armored you are, the less damage you do (because the less damage you get).So you want them to replace the current mechanics of Power Guard/Reflection?
I'm looking for an opposite skill, one that does damage based on your defense, which would allow a higher level warrior to just crush lower level enemies he walks through, like the tank he (supposedly) is.
Because there's absolutely no way they would give us two skills that deal damage on contact.
Take away the damage reflection from Power Guard/Reflection and all you have is Achilles which would clearly be repetitive and, thus, removed.
I'll keep Power Guard, thanks.
By the way, the only things that makes a tank a tank in gaming are the ability to withstand a great deal of damage and (optimally) ensure that they're taking damage instead of other party members.
So your definition is a little skewed since being able to roll over lower level enemies isn't a prerequisite.
On a final note, it would make absolutely no sense for damage to be dealt based on the attacker's defense for several reasons including the need to create an entirely new formula for one skill despite the fact that Big Bang was designed to simplify the game.
More Future Job Changes? - kruimel0 - 2011-10-11
Viaje Wrote:So you want them to replace the current mechanics of Power Guard/Reflection?
Because there's absolutely no way they would give us two skills that deal damage on contact.
Take away the damage reflection from Power Guard/Reflection and all you have is Achilles which would clearly be repetitive and, thus, removed.
I'll keep Power Guard, thanks.
By the way, the only things that makes a tank a tank in gaming are the ability to withstand a great deal of damage and (optimally) ensure that they're taking damage instead of other party members.
So your definition is a little skewed since being able to roll over lower level enemies isn't a prerequisite.
On a final note, it would make absolutely no sense for damage to be dealt based on the attacker's defense for several reasons including the need to create an entirely new formula for one skill despite the fact that Big Bang was designed to simplify the game.
Then just make Power Guard like body pressure? Make it's damage based on the attack range of the user? Then it would have all the benefits of 'high leveled warriors just squishing slimes on contact' while it doesn't require a new formula.
More Future Job Changes? - ChaosH - 2011-10-11
Exidous Wrote:And who is going to trade mobility for other advantages besides warriors?
What's the advantage of Warriors? Being a tank in a game where tanks are useless?
More Future Job Changes? - valhala556 - 2011-10-11
kruimel0 Wrote:Then just make Power Guard like body pressure? Make it's damage based on the attack range of the user? Then it would have all the benefits of 'high leveled warriors just squishing slimes on contact' while it doesn't require a new formula.
Um no. Id rather not die from reflect while standing on top of a monster. <.<
More Future Job Changes? - Sorien - 2011-10-11
kruimel0 Wrote:Then just make Power Guard like body pressure? Make it's damage based on the attack range of the user? Then it would have all the benefits of 'high leveled warriors just squishing slimes on contact' while it doesn't require a new formula.
I'd rather them make Power Guard and Reflection deal damage from a simple formula that uses defense, like: [Defense * Multiplier]. For Power Guard, the multiplier could be a random value between 0.70 and 1.00, and Power Reflection's multiplier could be a random value between 4.70 and 5.00.
This wouldn't really require all that much programming to make. Hell, it might even require less programming than what the skills have now.
More Future Job Changes? - valhala556 - 2011-10-11
Sorien Wrote:I'd rather them make Power Guard and Reflection deal damage from a simple formula that uses defense, like: [Defense * Multiplier]. For Power Guard, the multiplier could be a random value between 0.70 and 1.00, and Power Reflection's multiplier could be a random value between 4.70 and 5.00.
This wouldn't really require all that much programming to make. Hell, it might even require less programming than what the skills have now.
But why do we even care how much Power guard does? im fine with it just absorbing damage and then doing nothing else.
More Future Job Changes? - Viaje - 2011-10-11
kruimel0 Wrote:Then just make Power Guard like body pressure? Make it's damage based on the attack range of the user? Then it would have all the benefits of 'high leveled warriors just squishing slimes on contact' while it doesn't require a new formula.Then they would likely remove the defensive properties for balance.
Oh, and it would no longer work on ranged attacks for obvious reasons.
How about just changing Power Reflection to work like Body Pressure?
Not having a Hero, I can't say whether or not this would be an awful thing, but, since a Hero suggested it, they can argue over it.
As a Paladin, however, I'd like you not to mess with my defensive skills.
I don't care about touch-killing low level monsters since that doesn't help me at all.
When I'm on low level maps on my Paladin, I'm either on a mount, which negates Power Guard (as it should) or using Rush to get around.
I still haven't heard an actual scenario in which this change would be beneficial.
The only thing I can see it providing is minute extra DPM by standing on a boss.
There are much better ways to add DPM to a class, especially to a class that has two skills that block attacks entirely.
Sorien Wrote:I'd rather them make Power Guard and Reflection deal damage from a simple formula that uses defense, like: [Defense * Multiplier]. For Power Guard, the multiplier could be a random value between 0.70 and 1.00, and Power Reflection's multiplier could be a random value between 4.70 and 5.00.That last sentence is nonsensical. Not changing anything always requires less work than changing something.
This wouldn't really require all that much programming to make. Hell, it might even require less programming than what the skills have now.
And, no, making a damage formula isn't as simple as going "HERPDERP THIS NUMBER TIMES THIS NUMBER!"
Well, you can do that, but your game will probably suck.
valhala556 Wrote:But why do we even care how much Power guard does? im fine with it just absorbing damage and then doing nothing else.This. It's perfectly fine the way it works now (which isn't actually as you described since it still does and has always returned the damage).
More Future Job Changes? - SaptaZapta - 2011-10-11
Oh well, since nobody seems to agree, guess I'll just withdraw the idea.
But I still want 100% passive stance. Doesn't have to be from level 10 like mechanics. I'd be fine with it being an added effect of mastering Power Guard/Reflection and HB.