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+---- Thread: [Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills (/showthread.php?tid=32869)
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - donovan - 2010-11-19
SwordStaker Wrote:I'm not the one getting all butt hurt here. My argument is simple. Just because this says phantom imprint is faster and even though illusion is stronger but slower automatically means imprint is better. All I'm saying is you can't say that from just looking at this you need to see them both in action on one boss with an Evan with all buffs and equips. THEN you can make your final comparison.
But Illusion isn't Stronger or Faster. Equips have nothing to with it, neither do buffs.
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - Dusk - 2010-11-19
SwordStaker Wrote:Clearly your misunderstanding me. All I'm saying is we have yet to see it in action with every buff possible an Evan can use so stop jumping to conclusions and by looking at this that automatically means PI is better just because it's a little bit faster.
Evans don't have any buffs that could possibly make a weaker skill stronger than a stronger skill.
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - SwordStaker - 2010-11-19
donovan Wrote:But Illusion isn't Stronger or Faster.It's slower but 180x4=720 compared to 660. It is stronger but not faster.
Dusk Wrote:Evans don't have any buffs that could possibly make a weaker skill stronger than a stronger skill.Did I say that?No I just said with every buff possible.Jeez people..
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - JoeTang - 2010-11-19
SwordStaker Wrote:Yes you are an idiot thank you for saying that for me. Your comparing apples and oranges with Strafe and hurricane because theres absolutely NO comparison there. Hurricane is a key down skill and strafe is not and from level 1 hurricane outright destroys strafe. Oh gee I don't know Joe could it be, level, combat orders, equips, INT, buffs etc?
How about we compare Brave Slash and Brandish? They work exactly the same way. Push a key once. Damage is done. Brave Slash is stronger than Brandish. Do you know why? Because it does more damage over time. BUT WHAT IF YOU HAVE BETTER EQUIPS MORE STR BUFFS FOR BRANDISH? Brave Slash will still do more damage. Do you know why? Do you know how much +skill you need to do more damage with Illusion than Phantom Imprint? 96. You would need level 96 Illusion to do the same DPS of level 10 Phantom Imprint. And no amount of equips can change this.
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - donovan - 2010-11-19
SwordStaker Wrote:It's slower but 180x4=720 compared to 660. It is stronger but not faster.
But 2 Phantom Imprints > 2 Illusions.
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - JoeTang - 2010-11-19
donovan Wrote:But 2 Phantom Imprints > 2 Illusions.
Almost. 3 Phantom Imprints > 3 Illusions.
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - SwordStaker - 2010-11-19
donovan Wrote:But 2 Phantom Imprints > 2 Illusions.Illusion has more damage for two. Again we have YET to see it in action. I will not deny PI is going to beat it out but I'm not making any conclusion from sheer numbers in %'s unless I'm proven visually which I have not yet been.
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - SwordStaker - 2010-11-19
JoeTang Wrote:How about we compare Brave Slash and Brandish? They work exactly the same way. Push a key once. Damage is done. Brave Slash is stronger than Brandish. Do you know why? Because it does more damage over time. BUT WHAT IF YOU HAVE BETTER EQUIPS MORE STR BUFFS FOR BRANDISH? Brave Slash will still do more damage. Do you know why? Do you know how much +skill you need to do more damage with Illusion than Phantom Imprint? 96. You would need level 96 Illusion to do the same DPS of level 10 Phantom Imprint. And no amount of equips can change this.Your comparing apples and oranges again. Illusion DOES NOT work the same dam way that PI does. PI is single hit and Illusion is 4 hit. Your giving me a migraine so I'm ignoring you now.
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - Tikey - 2010-11-19
SwordStaker Wrote:I'm not the one getting all butt hurt here. My argument is simple. Just because this says phantom imprint is faster and even though illusion is stronger but slower automatically means imprint is better. All I'm saying is you can't say that from just looking at this you need to see them both in action on one boss with an Evan with all buffs and equips. THEN you can make your final comparison.
The problem is that the maffs show that PI is better. 720% damage at 1590ms is not going to overpower 660% damage at 840ms. There's also the fact that PI's damage buff is going to benefit PI itself much more than Illusion.
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - donovan - 2010-11-19
JoeTang Wrote:Almost. 3 Phantom Imprints > 3 Illusions.
Yea my bad 2 Illusion is 1440% and two PI is 1419%.
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - JoeTang - 2010-11-19
SwordStaker Wrote:Your comparing apples and oranges again. Illusion DOES NOT work the same dam way that PI does. PI is single hit and Illusion is 4 hit. Your giving me a migraine so I'm ignoring you now.
4 Hits doesn't mean anything. It could do 400 hits at 18% each, and it would be just as pomegranatety.
Every skill does work the same way. They hit monsters. You obviously have no idea how the game even works to begin with, let alone math.
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - Kurokisuke - 2010-11-19
Honestly why are you making this pomegranate so complicated @_@
Why don't you go test it out when it comes out and go with whatever you feel?
It's a game o-o
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - SwordStaker - 2010-11-19
Tikey Wrote:The problem is that the maffs show that PI is better. 720% damage at 1590ms is not going to overpower 660% damage at 840ms. There's also the fact that PI's damage buff is going to benefit itself much more than Illusion.I understand that completely but again we have yet to see any comparison video between the two on a boss scale with every buff possible to add to Evans power. What if Illusion causes it to kill a boss like pap say 5 seconds faster than PI. Of course from most people stand points its impossible to say that. But again we do not know that because we have yet to see it so therefore I'm not going to just tap out and say PI is better just because this and people say it's better. Again I repeat we have YET to see it in the game therefore an ACCURATE comparison can't be made from just an extraction. Do I ANYWHERE say theres no way in hell PI is worse than Illusion?No I'm just saying I before I make my conclusion want to see an Evan with every buff to raise its power and then do two boss runs to compare them.
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - Tikey - 2010-11-19
SwordStaker Wrote:Do I ANYWHERE say theres no way in hell PI is worse than Illusion?No I'm just saying I before I make my conclusion want to see an Evan with every buff to raise its power and then do two boss runs to compare them.
Fair enough.
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - donovan - 2010-11-19
Any buff that affects Illusion will affect Phantom Imprint (except CO), there are no hidden attributes in either skills, what you see here in the MATHZ is what you get.
Maybe you're more visual, but I don't see any point fighting it anymore.
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - SwordStaker - 2010-11-19
Tikey Wrote:Fair enough.Thank you for understanding.
donovan Wrote:Any buff that affects Illusion will affect Phantom Imprint (except CO), there are no hidden attributes in either skills, what you see here in the MATHZ is what you get.I was never fighting it you and Joe were the ones who got so butt hurt about it.Again I DO NOT SAY PI IS WORSE THAN ILLUSION I'M JUST SAYING BEFORE I MAKE ANY CONCLUSION OF WHICH IS BETTER I WANT TO SEE PERSONALLY AND COMPARE THE DAMAGE AND TIMES OF THE RUNS
Maybe you're more visual, but I don't see any point fighting it anymore.
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - Dusk - 2010-11-19
What exactly are you hoping a video would demonstrate?
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - donovan - 2010-11-19
Why are you accusing us of being butt hurt, we are arguing based on the facts given, you are clinging to some illusory hope that a video will reveal something the facts don't.
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - PirateIzzy - 2010-11-19
Unneccessary argument is unneccessary.
inb4 Rayquaza
[Module] The Restructuring | Aran/Evan skills - SwordStaker - 2010-11-19
Dusk Wrote:What exactly are you hoping a video would demonstrate?*facepalm*My god its like talking to a wall. I said I want to see the two used on a boss so I can SEESEE for myself the damage of the two skills and the times and COMPARE THEM FOR MYSELF