Dusk Wrote:Because you shun strategies and techniques just because they're nerdy, and because you purposely introduce large elements of luck into your game.

Dusk Wrote:Not saying it's wrong to be a casual.

Omni Wrote:Why are you and Mark always trying to get your butt in threads where you clearly know you're going to fuel some sort of argument? Especially if not in Funhouse. If this was Funhouse, I would LOL and play back. This isn't a joke. If you want to start a thread about casual gaming, whether it be Smash or whatever else, go ahead and do so. Stop derailing the thread. You're not helping anything. Nor are you contributing.

EarthAdept2 Wrote:Competing amongst a group of friends does not constitute you to being "competitive".

Fiel Wrote:The difference between competition and recreation is that one is done for winning and will use or employ any method to win. Recreation is just about having fun.

Fiel Wrote:Those who play for any amount of recreation is a casual gamer. Those who do not are competitive players.

>Implying' Wrote:It's a fair example; it's useful regardless of how little it does and obviously does enough to make it a significant part of competitive play. Not to mention, it's only one example; haven't even gotten started on L-sticking or other frame-skipping exploits commonly used among hardcore SSBMers, nor do I plan to because it wouldn't say more than what I've already said in regards to competitive play.

Quote:To explain an example, here's one. Pokemon metagame. OU tiers. Sure, they are OU for a reason. OU = OverUsed. Why? Their stats or movepools are amazing. But if you can't predict or know how to execute certain movesets, it's pretty much worthless. Same can be said of competitive Smash

Quote:L-canceling[URL="http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/index.php?title=L-canceling&action=edit"]
[/URL]

From SmashWiki, the Super Smash Bros. wiki


L-canceling, short for lag canceling is a technique in both SSB and SSBM for reducing the length of recovery animations after landing on the ground while performing an aerial attack. By pressing Z, L, or R slightly before landing on the ground, a player can reduce their recovery time, a significant decrease that greatly increases a character's maximum rate of attack. L-canceling is no longer available in Brawl, though auto-cancel is in.

Quote:A wavedash is a technique in Melee that causes a character to slide along the ground without walking or running. It transfers the momentum of the air dodge into a spurt of ground-based movement. Like l-canceling and Short Hopping, wavedashing is considered an advanced technique, and one of the first techniques smashers learn when they train for tournaments.
Contrary to the common belief that it is a glitch, Wavedash is actually a physics exploit because while sliding from an airdodge is an intended part of the physics engine, the uses found for it weren't intended. The competitive community has thoroughly explored the applications of wavedashing in a match setting and its widely varying uses in modern tournament situations are clearly beyond what was possibly intended during development.
In competitive play, Mewtwo, Luigi and Ice Climbers players make heavy use of wavedashing as their primary movement, while users of nearly every other character wavedash frequently for positioning and maneuvering.

Omni Wrote:Thing is, unless you've actually done it yourself, giving your experiences based on only videos and what your friends/acquaintances does during a match shows very little. It's only by first-hand experience that you'll know. Wave-Dashing is not in any way significant. Take Jigglypuff's W-dash for example, Jiggs barely budges with a 'perfect' Wave Dash, and people only use it to space against their opponent. Secondly, L-canceling is 100% legit. It's been in SSB (original for N64), it's in Melee, and I'm not sure whether it's in Brawl or not, so I won't comment on that. All L-cancelling does, is shorten your delay after landing on the ground.

Omni Wrote:You still don't seem to comprehend "competitive Smash". It's not the abuse of glitches. It has nothing to do with glitches. It's just a community that tries to research and test out new things, get together in tournaments and show off their skills while having fun. I can do perfect WaveDashes on my Fox easily, almost 99.99% of the time. Can I perform Wave Shines? No. Why? Because I am not skilled enough. If they were glitches as you say they are, everyone who plays this game can perform a Wave Shine.

Glitches are supposed to be easy, right? If it's so easy, anyone can Wave Shine~

>Implying' Wrote:Yes, obviously you have to know when to do this, and do that, and time this, and time that. It's nothing that isn't elementary for a gamer. You can go on and on about how the glitches and exploits that you and others spend dozens of hours practicing are "not in any way significant", but at the end of the day, every single competitive battling video contains these insignificant exploits. They're gamebreakers. Today, they're essential.

If it's game-breaking, competitive-Melee would be banned. Competitive Melee was a part of MLG. It's not game-breaking. You still haven't proven anything since you're stating things based on typical assumptions and misleading generalizations.


I don't recall ever stating the glitches in this game being easy to do. In fact, I'm well aware that they do take quite a bit of time to master. They still completely killed the multiplayer and made the creator of Smash cry. :3

How do you know that it killed multiplayer mode?

You're slowly shifting the topic of discussion from defining competitive/casual Smash players to justifying your exploiting. That isn't what you wanted in your thread a couple of hours ago, yet you're bringing it upon yourself. You can either continue to defend your elitist bros over at Smashboards, or you can say "Alright, Greg. I respect your opinion." Your call.

Quote:He doesn't have to. You went out of your way to make this the "official" SSBM discussion thread, so really, anything related to it can be posted. I agree that wavedashing and L-sticking ruined the scene for Melee

Omni Wrote:I'm not trying to persuade you that competitive Melee is better than casual Melee, or vice-versa. It just seems like you won't give up. If you want to discuss the legitimacy of it in a more in-depth manner, we can do that in a new thread. This one IS for competitive Melee, yes. I do allow Brawl in here as well, since there are players that plays both games. Secondly, while I can respect one's opinion, how you showed your opinion was a bit arrogant by barging in this thread and stating:

>Implying' Wrote:He doesn't have to. You went out of your way to make this the "official" SSBM discussion thread, so really, anything related to it can be posted. I agree that wavedashing and L-sticking ruined the scene for Melee

Omni Wrote:I never stated that this was the official thread. I might have in other pages, and if I did, feel free to quote me. Secondly, the title itself says "The competitive SSBM discussion thread", and not "The official SSBM thread".

>Implying' Wrote:I was only backing up a bro, since I found it kind of uncalled-for to say that his opinion on competitive SSBM had no place in a thread revolving around just that. Hardly arrogant, unless using "ruined" to describe present-day Smash was too harsh.


Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me, Princess!

 Spoiler