+- Southperry.net (https://www.southperry.net)
+-- Forum: Extraction Stuff (https://www.southperry.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Forum: Extractions (https://www.southperry.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=68)
+--- Thread: [1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time (/showthread.php?tid=21364)
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - KaidaTan - 2010-01-07
FrozNlite Wrote:@ the whole magic to ohko thing: You most likely won't see any I/L under 150 at Oblivion 4 or 5, and even then, this whole issue is all speculation. Unless someone wants to give Goals a Sswiss Cheese and have him calculate EXP/hr at the maps to see if it's actually better than Skeles, don't get your undies in a tizzy. Skeles may still reign supreme by a few EXP/hr, meaning you'll all have nothing to worry about.I don't know about you, but I would gladly take a slightly smaller %/hour if it means I can find loads of Time Pieces.
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - Sarah - 2010-01-07
FrozNlite Wrote:Whoa. So you're saying you won't party train with people because they'll get better drops than you? All I'm hearing is whining about losing your map or your drops. Jesus christ.
What other reason is there to whine? I think those are both very legitimate reasons. What's the point in playing if you're not getting anything out of it.
Honestly, one of the main reasons I prefer to play alone is because I'm fairly selfish and it ticks me off when the person I'm with gets something I want/could use. Of course I don't take it out on them in any way, but it brings me down for sure, and I think that's all IllegallySane is saying about that, and it's a perfectly logical reason.
Training with partners should always be optional; you shouldn't be forced to share a map. Nexon needs to take that into account when making any decent training place by creating mini-dungeons, of course. At the same time, anyone who chooses to train alone should know better than to go to the over-populated areas (for example, I chose to train at Brextons from 90 - 102 on my Aran because Gallopera was consistently full and I don't want to deal with douches). But if an area you've used for a long time suddenly becomes ridiculously popular due to a change that is out of their control then yeah, they absolutely have the right to complain.
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - Kalovale - 2010-01-07
BombsAway Wrote:But if an area you've used for a long time suddenly becomes ridiculously popular due to a change that is out of their control then yeah, they absolutely have the right to complain.Basically this. Melee classes got sick of having to rely on ult spammers to gain their EXP and the drama attached with it, some chose to move to ToT to train peacefully, myself included. At 147, I'm sure I can gain 1.5x times more exp with an ultspammer and hs at Skele than Soloing Regret 5. And I plan to stay at ToT for as long as I care to train.
As for sharing a map, it is okay, Rick, but the mob count is significantly worse, thus less PoT chances. I'm not sure about EXP since I didn't time exactly but it seemed to have been at least the same as soloing the entire map.
And PoT price drop is a downside too. Hell, I just spent 2 weeks at O4 to make my Reverse Spear, now everyone and their mom is going to have several. No, I'm not going to upgrade so I'll just sit in the corner and QQ.
At least Mages can have a new source of income since their beloved leech was taken away, oh poor Bishops.
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - 2147483647 - 2010-01-07
IllegallySane Wrote:My personal excuse is Murphy's Law always seem to plague me in the form of a cursed drop rate for me whenever someone else parties me, in which they get noticeably drops than I do. It may not be logical to think so, but that is the case with me, and it gets worse when I'm competing for kills on a map (in my Scanian days) and more often than not I'd see rare drops pop out in front of me, dangling in front of my face just so I can see someone else pick it up.hahaohwow.jpg Is Nexon's greed is getting to you? All you're concerned about is with your own personal gain. I certainly hope you are not like this irl.
Anyhoo, Drops are person specific. Drops originate from whoever did the most damage. There's a reason that in HT, the strongest attacker uses 2x drop and kills the last 3% of the last arm. If you saw a rare drop and someone else was able to pick it up, it just means you were there at the time that the person was meant to get the drop, nothing more. Even if you weren't there, he'd still get the drop.
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - Magatia - 2010-01-07
2147483647 Wrote:hahaohwow.jpg Is Nexon's greed is getting to you? All you're concerned about is with your own personal gain. I certainly hope you are not like this irl.
Anyhoo, Drops are person specific. Drops originate from whoever did the most damage. There's a reason that in HT, the strongest attacker uses 2x drop and kills the last 3% of the last arm. If you saw a rare drop and someone else was able to pick it up, it just means you were there at the time that the person was meant to get the drop, nothing more. Even if you weren't there, he'd still get the drop.
And I highly doubt you're not inclined to things concerning with your own personal gain.
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - Tikey - 2010-01-07
Kabanaw Wrote:I've played on ToT maps using an AM before; You don't hit nearly everything on the map. You hit two platforms, three if you're lucky, and the mobs are rarely larger than 7 or 8. If ToT were amazing for ult spamming, then you'd see a hell of a lot more F/Ps at regret maps.
And as I said, look at oblivion 5. It has 4 levels all across the map, creating a much better area for ultimate spamming. AMs and WA classes may very well not even interact. Edit: Ah, i see what you're saying about oblivion 5.
The only reason why you don't see FPs at Regret maps is because FPs are just rare. Regrets 4 is actually an ult spamming map since Meteor is able to hit 3 platforms on the top right and it's pretty small for a ToT map, easy to get 10-15 mobs.
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - Rick - 2010-01-07
No, that's wrong. The reason you don't see many at Regret maps is because Skelegons is still better experience, according to my F/P friend who constantly trains at Regrets 4 (where he one shots, as opposed to 2 shotting at Skelegons, yet the experience is still worse).
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - Taiketo - 2010-01-07
Because regrets give a lot less exp than obs... comparable to skeles..
This kinda makes me sad.
Huge paladin updates, but instead of going somewhere new, or rather, staying where I already train with much more damage, I get to go BACK TO SKELES..
There is absolutely no way any non-mage class will ever get a map now. Remember skeles pre minidungeon?
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - Rick - 2010-01-07
You know guys, there are Magicians who WILL leave you alone. You're acting like we're all KSing bastards.
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - Taiketo - 2010-01-07
And for the one mage that doesn't KS you there are a dozen others that will within 5 minutes.
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - Rick - 2010-01-07
You're obviously not going to let up on your hate for Arch Mages, so just go and train and see how many problems you have.
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - FrozNlite - 2010-01-07
KaidaTan Wrote:I don't know about you, but I would gladly take a slightly smaller %/hour if it means I can find loads of Time Pieces.
The question is still how much smaller. If Regrets 4 pumped out Time Pieces like Oblivion 4 and 5 do, would you start seeing more LOLFPs there? Not really, because the solo EXP/hr rate at Regrets 4 for 100% ohkoing is 32m EXP/hr on 2x, as compared to the 45-48m EXP/hr some ArchMages can pull soloing Skeles on 2x. That's a massively stark difference, enough to keep LOLFPs at Skeles. Now the difference should be much smaller between Oblivion 5 and The Restoring Memory due to major EXP differences between mobs, but even still, if Skeles are faster for experience people may usually choose to stay there. While many enjoy the benefits of good drops or "making money while they train," to some, myself included, the whole goal while training is to get the most EXP as fast as possible. That's why leeching is so popular, after all. I mean, using your statement, all 2x players should rather choose to train at the Ant Tunnel mini dungeon, and 3x players at the Drumming Bunny mini dungeon, so they can hopefully get Chaos Scrolls.
And what do I see? The same amount of 3x players leeching Bigfoot and Anego. I don't know about you, but I have a life, and like many adhere to the mantra that time = money in many instances throughout life. If I'm on a 2x EXP card for 4 hours, I'm going to make sure that by the end of that card I haven't lost out on any EXP by training in a subpar map that would require me to buy another card and sit on my ass for another 4 hours to equal the EXP I could have gotten elsewhere.
BombsAway Wrote:What other reason is there to whine? I think those are both very legitimate reasons. What's the point in playing if you're not getting anything out of it.
Honestly, one of the main reasons I prefer to play alone is because I'm fairly selfish and it ticks me off when the person I'm with gets something I want/could use. Of course I don't take it out on them in any way, but it brings me down for sure, and I think that's all IllegallySane is saying about that, and it's a perfectly logical reason.
Training with partners should always be optional; you shouldn't be forced to share a map. Nexon needs to take that into account when making any decent training place by creating mini-dungeons, of course. At the same time, anyone who chooses to train alone should know better than to go to the over-populated areas (for example, I chose to train at Brextons from 90 - 102 on my Aran because Gallopera was consistently full and I don't want to deal with douches). But if an area you've used for a long time suddenly becomes ridiculously popular due to a change that is out of their control then yeah, they absolutely have the right to complain.
Well, at least you're bluntly honest about being selfish o.o.
You're never forced to share a map. The idea of the game is that if you want something bad enough, you'll do what you need to get it. If you want to train at Oblivion maps bad enough, you'll party I/L ArchMages to stay there. If you want the best EXP/hr in the game, you'll leech your way up to 4th job. Nexon is not saying you can't play the game alone if you want to, but they are saying you can't do/get all the best things by playing alone. If you're going to complain for Nexon to make you godly EXP/hr maps for solo training a non-Magician class because you don't like playing with other people, they'll say tough luck, this is an MMO. What, you want them to make it so you can solo HT now too because you want an HTP on your Aran but don't want to deal with douche squads?
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - IllegallySane - 2010-01-07
FrozNlite Wrote:Whoa. So you're saying you won't party train with people because they'll get better drops than you?
No. I don't party with people at Oblivion 4 because there ARE no people to party with. Everyone is either at Skeles or not training. Playing at 7-11 PST doesn't really give me a lot of people to train with. Murphy's Law hating me with a passion whenever I party with people is simply icing on that lonesome cake. It also doesn't help that the few times I tried to find an ultimate spammer to party with at Skeles, they demanded I pay for their pot costs.
2147483647 Wrote:hahaohwow.jpg Is Nexon's greed is getting to you? All you're concerned about is with your own personal gain. I certainly hope you are not like this irl.
So all AMs/Bishops that sell leech do so from the goodness of their heart?
Yes, because regularly donating to charities and to non-profit organizations help my personal gain. So does the fact I shelled out a good couple hundred bucks this month on Christmas presents for friends. Yup, lots of personal gain from that. /sarcasm
I don't merchant nor do I scroll and I don't have the time to regularly be on boss runs, so Time Temple is the only place I can earn my money. I am also relying on those Time Pieces to fund me so I can play without buying NX with real money. Yeah, personal gain right there for spending my hard earned mesos to get NX instead of just buying it with real money, because working harder istead of smarter is the way to go!
As far as I know, Dragon Scales/Spirits are actually harder to find than Time Pieces kill for kill; it's just there weren't regular ultimate spammers there to deflate the Time Piece prices.
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - Kawasari Mimoto22 - 2010-01-07
Partying is completely optional in-game. However, if you're on a map, sometimes, just give the other person the 'benefit-of-the-doubt' and let them have a portion of the map. Hell, it might speed things up. If you're not even using the other portion of the map, hell, let them have it. Won't hurt. Unless they spam ults and it hits your monsters and KSes you in the process. If you're in a regular map, of course, expect people to 'ask' if they can have a portion of the map. You don't have to say 'yes' at all, it's up to the player, but put yourself in their shoes.
Of course, when I don't feel like partying at all, I go into a private-map for myself and just grind away.
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - Stereo - 2010-01-07
How does 1hkoing help? If I remember right, most maps have respawn times in the 8-10 second range anyway, and even fast maps like the Skele minidungeon around 5 seconds. If you're really just sitting in one spot, then half the time you cast ultimate, half the time you wait for stuff to respawn.
Blizzard freezes, if you 2hko they're not going anywhere. And hitting over 70.5k per Blizzard with all the elemental boosts is not that tough. If it takes 1300 magic to 1hko,I can see level 130s being able to get the magic to 2hko (obviously they'd want to have high level Blizzard too)
Just a question about ultimates... can you jump cast them? When I'm using HH on the "main" floors of Oblivion, I jump so it hits the platform above me. If I didn't, I'd have to stand on the stairs. Then again, from the next platform upward I can just sit and cast and it hits the platform below, so maybe AMs would end up there since they can 1hko, which HH will never do.
Do we think Paladin updates are over the top yet?
Current max damage, Oblivion Guardians: 22000 with ACB, translating to 6m exp/hour
New max damage, Oblivion Guardians: 65000 with ACB
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - Kawasari Mimoto22 - 2010-01-07
I heard you can jump-cast ults now. I haven't played my Bishop yet, so idk. But I suppose so.
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - 2147483647 - 2010-01-07
Magatia Wrote:And I highly doubt you're not inclined to things concerning with your own personal gain.Everything concerns such. It's just that when you reach his degree of jealousy and rage, you're doing it wrong.
IllegallySane Wrote:Yes, because regularly donating to charities and to non-profit organizations help my personal gain. So does the fact I shelled out a good couple hundred bucks this month on Christmas presents for friends. Yup, lots of personal gain from that. /sarcasmBy personal gain, I didn't mean that you have to be completely philanthropist, but at least you shouldn't let your jealousy consume you to the point you're not willing to train with anyone for fear you'd see them getting the "good drops". You should be happy if you're trainnig with a friend and you see him get a good drop. >_>
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - TamilTiger1 - 2010-01-07
Stereo Wrote:
Just a question about ultimates... can you jump cast them? When I'm using HH on the "main" floors of Oblivion, I jump so it hits the platform above me. If I didn't, I'd have to stand on the stairs. Then again, from the next platform upward I can just sit and cast and it hits the platform below, so maybe AMs would end up there since they can 1hko, which HH will never do.
This was possible for a very long time, possibly from the beginning. I think people just didn't use it because its hard to do using Ultimate key alone without putting it in macro. Its very simple when you add the ultimate into a macro (just need to put it in once) and jump atk, you can do it 100% of the time. Without macro you'll have to do it at a perfect time, i've tried this way but its not worth that much effort to hit a few extra monsters. This is how you hit bottom 3 platforms of skele mini dungeon
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - Shidoshi - 2010-01-07
If what you are suggesting is just jump casting, like what archers do, then it would make no difference in the range of the skill.
It would count as if you cast it from the ground where you were.
[1.2.279] Skill nerfs this time - Dual - 2010-01-07
[COLOR="Green"]The main reason why you dont see F/P at Oblvion 4, despite the map being perfect for Ultimates, is because the monsters give less EXP than Skeles. However, CoG give 7k EXP to a Skele's 4.5k.
I have an arguement about this happening, but there is no way for me to actually put it out without having Archmages coming after me. There are MANY reasons why an I/L AM would want to go to O4 (PoT profit now that leeching is less used, KSing, a change from the neverending Skele minidungeon, more usage of skills instead of just spamming, ect.) but bringing up anything about the fact that the one place a melee class could train the best in the game is now availible to Archmages, the classes that cannot be beaten in terms of speed, and already kill effectively everywhere else. [/COLOR]