Fiel Wrote:Would it be any more right for an unsuspecting Bishop to buy an elemental wand for hundreds of millions of mesos and lose damage because of it? There is no description on the wand that states, "If you are a bishop, this weapon sucks for you!" or anything of the like. The equip is a wand and a staff. Bishops can use wands and staves. What's the issue?

Bishops are already receiving LESS POWER from the same item while paying the SAME AMOUNT of mesos. They do not get an elemental bonus for it. They are simply paying more for their own endgame item, just as all AMs are doing. Is it right for them to pay a truckload of mesos for their own endgame equipment and then be told, "oh sorry, the best equip available to you wasn't meant for you. Sell it back for less than what you paid for it. lol." How is it fair to screw over an entire class after all the damage has been done?

It's obvious to me that AMs were created to pay more for power, what with Amplification giving a 40% boost (an advantage over Bishops) AND having another 25% boost (another advantage over Bishops), what more do AMs want? Why should it be fair for Bishops to pay the same mesos for less than another class? Already, these weapons cause AMs ultimate attack to cost 7000 MP for 997 basic attack. Granted, Bishops pay a little less basic attack per MP (3500 MP for 570), but that's at the cost of having to 2HKO instead of 1HKO, thus giving AMs a large %/hr advantage over Bishops. It's already unbalanced as it stands in GMS, and players want to make it more unbalanced?

I guess I got a lot of questions.

Devil's Sunrise Wrote:@Fiel: What about skeles? Aren't the multiplier efficient enough there to 1hko rather consistently at same pace as AMs?

Dusk Wrote:Regardless of what's fair (and I don't think it's fair Bishops should be stronger on undead mobs, rather they should be killing them just as fast as everyone else and be weaker on everything else), the elemental weapons exist in their present state only because of an oversight on Nexon's part. That should be fixed. End of story.

loddlaen Wrote:That would be like me saying I don't think its fair that AM's kill faster on Ice weak monsters or Fire weak monsters.

If skeles weren't the current "end-game" training spot, do you really think this debate would be any where as vocal?

Dusk Wrote:It's not the same thing at all, because Bishops are a support class. Does Heal outdamage other 2nd job mobbing skills? Does Shining Ray outdamage other 3rd job mobbing skills? There's a hell of a lot of things that need to be reworked for fairness but in no way do Bishops need to be the strongest class against undead mobs.

Dusk Wrote:It's not the same thing at all, because Bishops are a support class. Does Heal outdamage other 2nd job mobbing skills? Does Shining Ray outdamage other 3rd job mobbing skills? There's a hell of a lot of things that need to be reworked for fairness but in no way do Bishops need to be the strongest class against undead mobs.

Fiel Wrote:Would it be any more right for an unsuspecting Bishop to buy an elemental wand for hundreds of millions of mesos and lose damage because of it? There is no description on the wand that states, "If you are a bishop, this weapon sucks for you!" or anything of the like.

draconius Wrote:Rarely will you find events in economics where someone's entire savings disappears like that, nor will you find policy makers stupid enough to consider doing this at considerable risk to consumer consumption.

MasPan Wrote:Couldn't they just change new ones, and leave those in game already as is?

MasPan Wrote:or make a new item with a new ID that has the reduct, and add a descriptor?

eos367 Wrote:That's why I keep pointing out the description from the items is missing and needs to be added, because then it very clearly states this. With their generic names and color scheme even some FPs and ILs are unclear on which is which. If they had thier full descriptive text that would make it absolutely clear for all sides.

Quote:Did you not live through the Dot Com Bubble? Or the recent stock market surge? Are you not alive right now during the current U.S. economy issues? These things happen all the time. Investments go bad. People buy Betamax. People bought laser discs. People bought HD-DVD players. Things come along and become obsolete for one reason or another, all the time.

Holypie Wrote:the problem is, AMs have NOTHING other than training. we can't boss at all. at least bishops get to go to bosses for heal, res and their other party buffs. AMs only come to bosses as buyers

Quote:I'm an Arch Mage who does not think that the reduction from the Elemental Wands and Staves should be implemented. Although a bishop's Genesis has a spell base of 670 at max, bishops are still lacking in power from Elemental Amplification, which, without an elemental weapon, already raises an Arch Mage's combative power to a stronger level than bishops.

Let us first do the math:

1) Elemental Amplification gives a 1.4x damage boost to an Arch Mage, easily raising the power of their Meteo and Blizzard to a handy 798 spell attack at max on a neutral monster. A bishop only does 670 spell attack at max on a neutral monster.

2) With both Elemental Amplification and an Elemental Weapon, an Arch Mage's Meteo and Blizzard spell base is further improved to 997.5 on a neutral monster. On a holy weak monster, a Bishop's Genesis has 1005 spell attack. This means that an Arch Mage is doing around 98% of a Bishop's damage on holy weak monsters.

Bishops don't need to be any weaker. They are already on the lower tier of the damage pool, and at most, they gain only ~50 magic attack from wielding such a weapon. They will by no means ever be stronger than an Arch Mage, even while wielding an elemental weapon. Since they paid fair mesos for such weapons, why not allow them to keep it? Such a reduction will only cause an uproar among the Bishop community.

Keep in mind that nerfing one class does not make another any stronger.



I do agree though that Nexon needs to declare their actions, since keeping players in the dark will only lead to false speculations and disturbances any time the topic arises.

draconius Wrote:You know, when Bishops are the only supposed "support class" in the entire game, you really would have a problem comparing them to some reference point. If we have exactly one support class, then anything that it has characterizes a support class. Maplestory is not Runescape. It is not WoW. Maplestory is Maplestory and you can give me a million and one examples of what a "support class" in another game is but that doesn't change the fact that the bishop experience in Maplestory stays as is. What do you imagine a Bishop would be doing until 200? Begging off DrKs to party them at Skeles for .5%/hr? The fundamental concept that served as a template for designing the 4th job mages was that they would be independent and excellent at training, and mediocre to bad at bossing. ALL mages share this, although archmages are certainly stronger in this respect since they actually have skills that augment this ability.

Bishops BARELY outdamage archmages at a monster they're supposed to be strong at. You know what the damage calculator says about the difference between 997.5 and 1005 is supposed to be? You probably wouldn't even see it register EVER during training whatsoever. We were stronger than 3rd job mages at our element back then just barely (except for lolTS), and we're barely stronger than them now on our element as well.

And frankly, though, if Nexon really does have a love affair with bishops...so what? Does the game just stop functioning? Are you going to threaten to quit? To quote a SW mod's profile, it's like shaking your fist at God. The sky hasn't fallen. It isn't falling. We're still living well with the way it is, and its probably BEST if its left the way it is as well. Nexon getting its hands into this hornet's nest that's slowly calming down is only going to agitate the situation further.

draconius Wrote:And if those happened everyday, we'd be in Capitalist paradise going from one bubble to anothe---oh wait. This is a conscientious decision on Nexon's part, however, which separates it from your other examples. In those cases, the demand simply isn't there to justify the heavy investment going on. There simply wasn't a backing to keep those stocks strong, and inevitably the bull looked up to the bear staring down. In this case, regardless of which step that Nexon takes, it loses some consumer confidence, which is a lose-lose situation. They'd basically be shooting themselves in the foot if they wanted to make a statement because its THEIR decision whether or not to stimulate demand. This isn't a case where some hedge funds decide to believe that the housing market can continue to grow 700% faster than the growth of the median income, its a case where it serves them absolutelly no good to do anything other than do nothing about the issue.

1. This isn't an 'everyday' event either. It's a one time fix.
   
2. Nexon loses customer confidence either way. Hell, they lose customer confidence any time a GM takes a piss.
   
3. The growth plan for these items is to be drops from leafre & aqua road mobs if the other versions are any indicator, just like chaos scrolls now drop from mobs. Gacha only is just an introductory phase. When these aren't gacha exclusive any more, Nexon's not losing anything it hasn't already comitted to losing in the interest of making the item more common.
   

eos367 Wrote:The growth plan for these items is to be drops from leafre & aqua road mobs if the other versions are any indicator, just like chaos scrolls now drop from mobs. Gacha only is just an introductory phase. When these aren't gacha exclusive any more, Nexon's not losing anything it hasn't already comitted to losing in the interest of making the item more common.
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Quote:Keep in mind that nerfing one class does not make another any stronger.