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+---- Thread: Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) (/showthread.php?tid=47362)
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2011-10-21
| Derp | 0% DEF | 10% DEF | 40% DEF | 70% DEF |
| Battle Mages: | 3866%/s | 3530%/s | 2522%/s | 1513%/s |
Battle Mages. Only change was the adding Advanced Yellow Aura (-1 Weapon Speed), 180% Finish Blow (vs 145%), 840% The Finisher (vs 760%) and 1040% Dark Lightning (vs 1000%). While receiving a buff to their primary attack that is greater than the DPS increase for 0% DEF monsters between versions, their overall difference is smaller due to a significant portion of their damage coming from Teleport which was not affected.
I'll be compiling a vs 3 and vs max monsters later.
| Derp | 0% DEF | 10% DEF | 40% DEF | 70% DEF |
| Revamped Evan | 10574%/s | 9725%/s | 7180%/s | 4635%/s |
Also updated Evan table to reflect correct critical damages as Eliseo pointed out to me.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Viaje - 2011-10-21
JoeTang Wrote:Not at all unexpected based on glancing over the changes. They hardly buffed Battle Mages at all.
Derp 0% DEF 10% DEF 40% DEF 70% DEF Battle Mages: 3866%/s 3530%/s 2522%/s 1513%/s
Battle Mages. Only change was the adding Advanced Yellow Aura (-1 Weapon Speed), 180% Finish Blow (vs 145%), 840% The Finisher (vs 760%) and 1040% Dark Lightning (vs 1000%). While receiving a buff to their primary attack that is greater than the DPS increase for 0% DEF monsters between versions, their overall difference is smaller due to a significant portion of their damage coming from Teleport which was not affected.
I hope and pray Nexon is aware of the ridiculous discrepancy they just created as, currently, Mages are even more fucked up than they were before when it comes to scaling.
I mean, hot damn, Evans do three times as much damage as a class they were just reorganize alongside?
Battle Mages are in serious need of a dedicated 1v1 attack. Hell, give them a version of "Enrage", call it "Dark Focus", and call it a day.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2011-10-21
Viaje Wrote:Not at all unexpected based on glancing over the changes. They hardly buffed Battle Mages at all.
I hope and pray Nexon is aware of the ridiculous discrepancy they just created as, currently, Mages are even more pineappleed up than they were before when it comes to scaling.
I mean, hot damn, Evans do three times as much damage as a class they were just reorganize alongside?
Battle Mages are in serious need of a dedicated 1v1 attack. Hell, give them a version of "Enrage", call it "Dark Focus", and call it a day.
I personally don't care if they give them a dedicated 1v1, but since their skills hit up to 8, it should still be scaled to be appropriate for that damage bracket which it isn't as far as I can tell. Especially not when they're compared to the standard Evans have set with their higher level mob skills.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Viaje - 2011-10-22
JoeTang Wrote:I personally don't care if they give them a dedicated 1v1, but since their skills hit up to 8, it should still be scaled to be appropriate for that damage bracket which it isn't as far as I can tell. Especially not when they're compared to the standard Evans have set with their higher level mob skills.I previously used to justify Battle Mage's low 1v1 by the fact that I was always under the impression that they were better mobbers.
Whether or not I was correct in this, I do not know, but, now that everyone and their mother is getting the ability to hit eight or more monsters, I can't even begin to fool myself into believing that.
The reason I suggest they get a dedicated 1v1 is simply because Nexon seems to have given up on balancing through "special talents", for lack of a better term, and moved towards making everyone a jack-of-all-trades.
Support-wise, I'm likely underestimating their Auras, especially since they're now stackable, but it looks grim.
On a side note, I don't quite understand why their upping the number of mobs everyone can hit. With the ways mobs are now, it seems like it'd be a rarity for anyone to hit that many targets at one time anyway.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2011-10-22
Viaje Wrote:I previously used to justify Battle Mage's low 1v1 by the fact that I was always under the impression that they were better mobbers.
Whether or not I was correct in this, I do not know, but, now that everyone and their mother is getting the ability to hit eight or more monsters, I can't even begin to fool myself into believing that.
I certainly agree that I can't imagine other classes are only doing 3535%/s on mobs.
The reason I suggest they get a dedicated 1v1 is simply because Nexon seems to have given up on balancing through "special talents", for lack of a better term, and moved towards making everyone a jack-of-all-trades.
Support-wise, I'm likely underestimating their Auras, especially since they're now stackable, but it looks grim.
On a side note, I don't quite understand why their upping the number of mobs everyone can hit. With the ways mobs are now, it seems like it'd be a rarity for anyone to hit that many targets at one time anyway.
Varies with map and range, but I've encountered plenty of areas where hitting up to 8 monsters was frequently feasible, and there are some monster park platforms that spawn with more than 6.
Their Auras are quite good, but the fact that any given Battle Mage will have all 3 active means that there's less reason to get more than one per party if another class is available (though previously, getting one for Yellow Aura wasn't that great either). I just don't feel that giving them a 1v1 would be very significant to their gameplay or help them significantly, especially when their mob skill appears to be on the weaker end.
| Derp | 0% DEF | 10% DEF | 40% DEF | 70% DEF |
| Without Teleport: | 3378%/s | 3054%/s | 2081%/s | 1109%/s |
Consider this table, as it is not very feasible to hit six targets with Teleport, and you can hit up to eight, which scales linearly, Battle Mages deal 8800%/s to eight, but they still suffer significantly from not having any defense reduction. This may be alleviated if they made The Finisher's defense ignore a passive, which is possible but just untested as of now.
| Derp | 0% DEF | 10% DEF | 40% DEF | 70% DEF |
| 35% DEF Ignore on Blow: | 3378%/s | 3167%/s | 2535%/s | 1903%/s |
I'm going to do a runthrough with Evan on 3 and 8 monsters in a few to see if it's as significant a deficiency as I suspect.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Viaje - 2011-10-22
I may have missed it, but what speed weapon do you have the Battle Mage using?
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2011-10-22
Viaje Wrote:I may have missed it, but what speed weapon do you have the Battle Mage using?
Normal (6). Should it be Fast (5)?
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Atuan - 2011-10-22
I still don't get why the hell Nexon refit Energize into a 30 point skill. 20 point Energize with a new 10 point skill that adds vanilla def penetration. Or keep Energize as it is now [10 Max] and make a new 20 point skill that makes The Finisher activate like FA does.
At 30 Energize I'll hit DEF and MDEF cap without BA activated, nevermind ABA. Pointless.
@OT, did you factor in Twister Spin's buffed speed?
Spoiler
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2011-10-22
Atuan Wrote:I still don't get why the hell Nexon refit Energize into a 30 point skill. 20 point Energize with a new 10 point skill that adds vanilla def penetration. Or keep Energize as it is now [10 Max] and make a new 20 point skill that makes The Finisher activate like FA does.
At 30 Energize I'll hit DEF and MDEF cap without BA activated, nevermind ABA. Pointless.
@OT, did you factor in Twister Spin's buffed speed?
Spoiler
There's no real way I can determine the exact speed of that. Looks about 600ms though.
Evan:
| Derp | 0% | 10% | 40% | 70% |
| Single Target: | 10574%/s | 9725%/s | 7180%/s | 4635%/s |
| Three Target: | 16236%/s | 15180%/s | 12014%/s | 8848%/s |
| Eight Target: | 42735%/s | 39957%/s | 31624%/s | 23290%/s |
| Ten Target: | 49549%/s | 44594%/s | 29729%/s | 14864%/s |
Three and Eight Target uses Blaze. Single is Illusion. From what I can tell, Flame Wheel's DoT data is bugged and I can't make heads or tails of how much it does. It has no defense ignore though so it does a lot less on higher defense.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Viaje - 2011-10-22
JoeTang Wrote:Normal (6). Should it be Fast (5)?It would vary, really.
I know you aren't using Elemental Weapons, but those would be Fast (4).
Doomsdays would be a great Normal (6), which these numbers would represent.
Most of the end-game weapons are Slow (8), though there are a couple Slower (9).
I just asked out of curiosity over which spectrum these number fell into.
Part of me hoped you were using Slow (8). haha
...of course, Elemental Staves become slightly less superior for Battle Mages after this update since Yellow Aura will bring Normal (6) weapons up to Faster (3) while E.Staves are still capped at Faster (2).
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Kalemora - 2011-10-22
JoeTang Wrote:Whatever updates they give to Arch Mages, they better be damn good.
Derp 0% DEF 10% DEF 40% DEF 70% DEF Revamped Evan 10574%/s 9725%/s 7180%/s 4635%/s
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Abysseon - 2011-10-22
Kalemora Wrote:Whatever updates they give to Arch Mages, they better be damn good.
Chain lightning hits 7 times, glacial chain hits 10 times, paralyze hits 6 times, and mist eruption hits 15 times...
I'm ready.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Takebacker - 2011-10-22
BaMs are still pretty lackluster in %/s it seems. They obviously make up for it in support and tankability for magic attacks though. Buffs needed? Probably.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Viaje - 2011-10-22
JoeTang Wrote:Evan:Whoah! That Single Target row is inaccurate, right?
Derp 0% 10% 40% 70% Single Target: 10574%/s 9725%/s 7798%/s 7386%/s Three Target: 16236%/s 15180%/s 12014%/s 8848%/s Eight Target: 42735%/s 39957%/s 31624%/s 23290%/s Ten Target: 49549%/s 44594%/s 29729%/s 14864%/s
I'm specifically looking at the 70% PDR.
Takebacker Wrote:BaMs are still pretty lackluster in %/s it seems. They obviously make up for it in support and tankability for magic attacks though. Buffs needed? Probably.The only thing about giving them credit for support is that Evans are supportive too.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2011-10-22
Viaje Wrote:Whoah! That Single Target row is inaccurate, right?
I'm specifically looking at the 70% PDR.
The only thing about giving them credit for support is that Evans are supportive too.
Evan:
| Derp | 0% | 10% | 40% | 70% |
| Single Target: | 10574%/s | 9725%/s | 7180%/s | 4635%/s |
| Three Target: | 16236%/s | 15180%/s | 12014%/s | 8848%/s |
| Eight Target: | 42735%/s | 39957%/s | 31624%/s | 23290%/s |
| Ten Target: | 49549%/s | 44594%/s | 29729%/s | 14864%/s |
Fixed it. Didn't double check since I had the correct values the first time and didn't notice I had made any changes to Illusion's check.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Takebacker - 2011-10-22
Viaje Wrote:The only thing about giving them credit for support is that Evans are supportive too.
Yeah they're both supportive but in completely different ways, which is awesome. I think BaMs are supportive more for when you're alive, but evans are more supportive for if there's more risk of death. Obviously ideal if you have both, but that's more of a waste of attacker spaces. Still, evans are insane for damage now (both their own damage and damage for the expedition since imprint is so godly) so people wouldn't be so apprehensive about bringing one along.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Jerry-Boyle - 2011-10-22
I am happy...I just don't want to see what Arcana can do in this update...that will be quite the thing to see. She already puts most people to shame LOL
Evans have been down in the charts for awhile, so finally we are at least above some and I hope it stays like that. Arch Mages had their time to shine already.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Abysseon - 2011-10-22
Jerry-Boyle Wrote:Arch Mages had their time to shine already.
Evans were already close to ams in dpm before this...
If anything this should indicate how much the other attacking classes will be buffed.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Jerry-Boyle - 2011-10-22
Abysseon Wrote:Evans were already close to ams in dpm before this...They were still better. F/P alone were 1100%/s higher and I/L were a tad bit higher. Not to mention infinity...Evans have nothing to compete with that and DoT damage. From my stance, legends should be stronger then ADVs since we(Legends)sealed the Black Mage ages ago. If adventurers could do it alone...no need for the existence of the legend type classes.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - EternalRain - 2011-10-22
Jerry-Boyle Wrote:They were still better. F/P alone were 1100%/s higher and I/L were a tad bit higher. Not to mention infinity...Evans have nothing to compete with that and DoT damage. From my stance, legends should be stronger then ADVs since we(Legends)sealed the Black Mage ages ago. If adventurers could do it alone...no need for the existence of the legend type classes.
Again, this issue boils down to class specialization. Should legends be better than Adventurers at every aspect? Should Mercedes completely outclass any other Bowman class, in DPS? That's not the case for Mercedes, unless Hurricane can hit cap, then RoI takes over. Should Demon Slayer completely outclass any other Warrior in DPS? Apparently that's the case, atm, because of how great Demon Slayer is compared to the other 3 Warriors. Then there's this revamp. What will it do? Will it make the 5 Legend classes (a couple unreleased) be the best at supporting and attacking? Is there a point to Adventurers if that happens?