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[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Printable Version

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[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Fiel - 2010-12-07

ghostofhalo Wrote:The only thing I could think of is Brave Slash is using the wrong delay since it's the same skillID as Brandish is pre-BB. I was hoping someone who could extract would notice all the activity here and would double-check for us. Fiel could have listed Brave Slash's delay as 1140ms because the delay variable "braveslash" (assuming it's the same name from KMS) is 1140ms although it might still be using the variable "brandish" which has a value of 840ms.

<shrug> We'll find out soon.

Nope. I look at the skillID for braveslash, check "action/0" to get the delay class, then go to where the delay classes are, grab that delay class, sum the absolute value of all the given delays, and output that.

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Dusk - 2010-12-07

Delays aren't always accurate. For example, Explosion has a very short cast time, but it includes a dummy weapon attack before it goes off. We'll have to do some testing.

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - JoeTang - 2010-12-07

Dusk Wrote:Delays aren't always accurate. For example, Explosion has a very short cast time, but it includes a dummy weapon attack before it goes off. We'll have to do some testing.

Of all the delays we've ever seen, only Explosion has one that's unexplainable I believe. I tested it in GMST to be 1440ms Normal (6) unboostered I believe. Something ridiculously long and slow, and you could only Teleport once during it or something, making it even worse.

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Anonymous Moose - 2010-12-07

0^2 Wrote:Honestly I would think theyd say something about Paladins being nigh unkillable not damage. Frankly Heroes are no worse off and Enrage is an insane power up. I still believe Paladin should do superior 1v1 damage than a Hero regardless of them using Enrage. Where is a Paladin's ability to turn Blast into a giant laser of mob destruction if Heroes can make their mob skill be better than our 1v1?

Lose ACB and HH (reducing you to 1 viable attack skill) and then the arguement of "Blast should do more damage than Brandish/Brave Slash" would hold water.

And Brave Slash is not a mob skill when Enrage is active.

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - 0^2 - 2010-12-07

Anonymous Moose Wrote:Lose ACB and HH (reducing you to 1 viable attack skill) and then the arguement of "Blast should do more damage than Brandish/Brave Slash" would hold water.

And Brave Slash is not a mob skill when Enrage is active.

Heavens Hammer is a viable attack? Since when can it kill monsters or not have a cooldown? Anyway what im saying is Heroes have a way to super power themselves for bosses making blasts high damage % a moot point despite all the other bonuses they could have. Few bosses have weaknesses so the whole elemental advantage shtick is meaningless. Oh i suppose Pianus and a couple of Zakum arms account for all the rest of the time Heroes are superior right? Oh right it doesn't because Heroes can hit many arms at once then crush the body into pebbles with Enrage.

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Anonymous Moose - 2010-12-07

0^2 Wrote:Heavens Hammer is a viable attack? Since when? Anyway what im saying is Heroes have a way to super power themselves for bosses making blasts high damage % a moot point despite all the other bonuses they could have. Few bosses have weaknesses so the whole elemental advantage shtick is meaningless. Oh i suppose Pianus and a couple of Zakum arms account for all the rest of the time Heroes are superior right? Oh right it doesn't because Heroes can hit many arms at once then crush the body into pebbles with Enrage.
People always underestimate the power of decreasing several monster's HP to 1, but my point is that Paladins have several skills and are able to more easily adapt to different situations. Heroes have only one an are no where near as good as adapting to more situations.
It also makes sense that a Paladin would be weaker against neutral targets, especially because they are a defensive class and the Hero is practically pure offense (with the exception of some shared skills). Logically focusing on defense and offense would produce a warrior that does less damage than a warrior that focused on pure offense.

Anyway...
Bosses over 100:
Fire Weak:
Pianus
Big Foot
Azure Ocelot
Scarlion
Relik
Body Guard A
The Boss
Munin

Ice Weak:
Manon
Scarlet Phoenix
Kacchuu Musha
Hsalf
Targa
Body Guard B
Hugin

Lightning Weak:
Headless Horseman
Kacchuu Musha
Anego
Lilynouch
Black Crow

Holy Weak:
Scarlet Phoenix
Azure Ocelot
Kacchuu Musha
Anego

Neutral (or lacks complete elemental resistance):
Leviathan
Dodo
Snowman
Papulatus
Red Nirg
Zakum
Lyka
HT
Dunas Type D
Pink Bean
Soloman
Rex
Feudal Lord

Resistant to all of the above:
Ergoth
Margana
Krexel
Ariel

I love it when people pretend that there are no elementally weak bosses.

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - 0^2 - 2010-12-07

Anonymous Moose Wrote:People always underestimate the power of decreasing several monster's HP to 1, but my point is that Paladins have several skills and are able to more easily adapt to different situations. Heroes have only one an are no where near as good as adapting to more situations.
It also makes sense that a Paladin would be weaker against neutral targets, especially because they are a defensive class and the Hero is practically pure offense (with the exception of some shared skills). Logically focusing on defense and offense would produce a warrior that does less damage than a warrior that focused on pure offense.

Anyway...
Bosses over 100:
Fire Weak:
Pianus
Big Foot
Azure Ocelot
Scarlion
Relik
Body Guard A
The Boss
Munin

Ice Weak:
Manon
Scarlet Phoenix
Kacchuu Musha
Hsalf
Targa
Body Guard B
Hugin

Lightning Weak:
Headless Horseman
Kacchuu Musha
Anego
Lilynouch
Black Crow

Holy Weak:
Scarlet Phoenix
Azure Ocelot
Kacchuu Musha
Anego

Neutral (or lacks complete elemental resistance):
Leviathan
Dodo
Snowman
Papulatus
Red Nirg
Zakum
Lyka
HT
Dunas Type D
Pink Bean
Soloman
Rex
Feudal Lord

Resistant to all of the above:
Ergoth
Margana
Krexel
Ariel

I love it when people pretend that there are no elementally weak bosses.
Hm lets see...CWK bosses are meaningless since weakness/resistances are so jumbled up in the fight. All of the bosses in Neutral only add to the idea that theres a huge lack in elementally weak bosses. Can a warrior even use their main attack on Munin and Hugin without dooming the squad from mass seduce? So we are left with 2 squad bosses, Targa & Scarlion of which have elemental weakness of one isnt even that good (ice is weak).

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - yo72 - 2010-12-07

Anonymous Moose Wrote:People always underestimate the power of decreasing several monster's HP to 1(bb changed it to 10k)
Anyway...
Bosses over 100:
Fire Weak:
Pianus(Doesn't he not drop anything post bb?_
Big Foot(Nerfed to hell)
Azure Ocelot(comes in at least 2)
Scarlion(Decent but not good exp)
Relik(Most time cwkpq bosses going to be ina group)
Body Guard A(Most warriors dont go to bg)
The Boss(Same^)
Munin(Decent example)

Ice Weak:
Manon(Such little hp the advantage shouldn't matter)
Scarlet Phoenix(Usually in a mob)
Kacchuu Musha(Decent but isnt he nerfed badly also?)
Hsalf(In a mob)
Targa(Decent)
Body Guard B(Most warriors dont bg)
Hugin(Decent)

Lightning Weak:
Headless Horseman(Lol?)
Kacchuu Musha(Decent if not nerfed)
Anego(Decent if not nerfed)
Lilynouch(Arent ToT bosses weaker now?)
Black Crow(Decent-ish?)

Holy Weak:
Scarlet Phoenix(Ina mob)
Azure Ocelot(Comes in twos)
Kacchuu Musha(Decent if not nerfed)
Anego(Same)

Neutral (or lacks complete elemental resistance):
Leviathan
Dodo
Snowman
Papulatus
Red Nirg
Zakum
Lyka
HT
Dunas Type D
Pink Bean
Soloman
Rex
Feudal Lord

Resistant to all of the above:
Ergoth
Margana
Krexel
Ariel

I love it when people pretend that there are no elementally weak bosses.

Answers next to boss name

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Anonymous Moose - 2010-12-07

Make any excuse you want. It wont change the fact that there is a good number of elementally weak bosses. And even if there arent enough that you care about, that isnt a good excuse to make Paladins superior to Heroes (especially with their defense buffs). If the problem is a lack of bosses that are elementally weak, then complain about that and demand a greater variety of bosses. Its much more logical to fix the problem rather than attack factors unrelated to the problem.

Edit: also keep in mind that a later patch will buff most area bosses, and possibly some WT bosses if nexon isnt too lazy about it.

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Fiel - 2010-12-07

As you've shown, there are elementally weak bosses. I just parsed through all mobs and found those with the following requirements:

- Be a boss
- Be greater than level 100
- Have some sort of elemental immunity, strength, or weakness

Here's my list:

 Spoiler


[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Anonymous Moose - 2010-12-07

Fiel Wrote:As you've shown, there are elementally weak bosses. I just parsed through all mobs and found those with the following requirements:

- Be a boss
- Be greater than level 100
- Have some sort of elemental immunity, strength, or weakness

Here's my list:

 Spoiler

Thank you for the list. It even had some monsters that I had difficulty finding the weaknesses/restances for earlier.

Edit: New list:
Fire Weak:
Bergamot
Pianus
Munin
Body Guard A
The Boss
Big Foot
Relik
Azure Ocelot
Commander (vpq)
Scarlion

Ice Weak:
Bergamot
Aufheben
Nibelung
Hugin
Poinson Gas Generator (not sure if this would count or not at the moment)
Manon
Body Guard B
Kacchuu Musha
Hsalf
Scarlet Phoenix
Bully Visitor (vpq)
Unjust Visitor (vpq)
Destroyer (vpq)
Krexel (apparently only one of his forms, the other is resistant)
Targa

Lightning Weak:
Lilynouch
Nibelung
Black Crow
Anego
Kacchuu Musha
Bully Visitor
Destroyer

Holy Weak:
Angeo
Kacchuu Musha
Scarlet Phoenix
Azure Ocelot
Ultimate Visitor (vpq)

Lightning Resistant (important to mention, because of Dual Charging)
Griffey
Dodo
Ariel
Gas Poison Generator
Ergoth
Margana
Krexel (the other form)
Scarlion

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Forad - 2010-12-07

ghostofhalo Wrote:And kill the fun sport of math? Naw.
At this point, I'm just sharing my findings and waiting until tomorrow for some solid proof of the attack speed when I can test it.

I guess the brave slash in BB-patched GMS will remain 840ms.
Brave slash is changed in KMS 1.2.355,I don't think BB-patched GMS will use this version.

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - TagerBustah - 2010-12-07

0^2 Wrote:Honestly I would think theyd say something about Paladins being nigh unkillable not damage. Frankly Heroes are no worse off and Enrage is an insane power up. I still believe Paladin should do superior 1v1 damage than a Hero regardless of them using Enrage. Where is a Paladin's ability to turn Blast into a giant laser of mob destruction if Heroes can make their mob skill be better than our 1v1?

This times infinity, you are absolutely right.

Quote:I guess the brave slash in BB-patched GMS will remain 840ms.
Brave slash is changed in KMS 1.2.355,I don't think BB-patched GMS will use this version.

i guess you missed Fiel's post on top of this very page.

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Baklava - 2010-12-07

But how many of those are bosses that people actually care about?

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - CrossMyHeart - 2010-12-07

Since I cant get on Scania Im dying to know if In trepid Slash is nerfed or not.

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - monkeyfist - 2010-12-07

CrossMyHeart Wrote:Since I cant get on Scania Im dying to know if In trepid Slash is nerfed or not.

I just tested it and it's the same speed as Brandish. All Heroes can breath a little easier now.

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Phoenix - 2010-12-07

monkeyfist Wrote:I just tested it and it's the same speed as Brandish. All Heroes can breath a little easier now.

Hmm, I got about 6x Slashes in a minute with a Normal 6 Sword. But I only got to try it once before it kicked me off. So it might be ok.

I should get 71 without booster right with a normal sword right?

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - JoeTang - 2010-12-07

Phoenix Wrote:Hmm, I got about 6x Slashes in a minute with a Normal 6 Sword. But I only got to try it once before it kicked me off. So it might be ok.

I should get 71 without booster right with a normal sword right?

Yes. If it was 1140, you'd get 53 in a minute.

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - ODERS - 2010-12-07

I got the same speed as brandish with intrepid slash

[Module] Big Bang | Delays & Ranges - Fiel - 2010-12-08

ODERS Wrote:I got the same speed as brandish with intrepid slash

Finally found the answer, but the quest for truth is often more interesting than the truth itself. I will give a spoiler alert, though. I found a bug!

This utterly baffled me, so I went searching for answers. I checked the results of my regex and it turns out it was spitting out an additional 300 ms garbage value at the end. But how is this possible? It shouldn't be doing that. I then changed a simple ".*?" to "\d+" and it worked perfectly. Turns out ".*?" is too permissive which allowed the query to find 3 - 4 lines instead of just one, singular line. So it stole delay values from other delay classes causing it to spew out wrong values. How disheartening. I did do some preliminary testing before calling this method stable, but the ones I tested on were unaffected by this bug. Damn.

I sincerely, really apologize for the mistake and for causing such an uproar. Mia culpa. The correct delays are now posted.