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[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - Printable Version

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[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - Takebacker - 2010-07-07

Patchouli Wrote:This. Why make it so there are some exceptions to the rule? If you have a buff that gives a better boost, why would you want a weaker boost to overwrite it?

Maybe this is their idea of balancing Sairs after all the buffs? In that case, they won't feel it as much in KMS, but it's a huge nerf to GMS Sairs.

What other important skills overwrite attack bonuses? Are Sairs the only class who have a necissary move remove attack bonuses?

Super transform gives 40 w.att. Less of a problem for buccs because you can transform -> cast apple -> attack till ST runs out -> don't cast ST again until apple runs out. Appled barrage no doubt out damages non-appled demo.

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - SwordStaker - 2010-07-07

Kitteh Wrote:You can usually safely bet on that.
That made me laugh, but still. Can someone clarify just where Evans stand in the terms of power compared to other classes after this balance? I'm just really confused about it>.> the only other class I don't get is Dual Blade but I don't give a flying crap about them.

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - Abysseon - 2010-07-07

SwordStaker Wrote:How? Unless the idiot on basil market was wrong they're saying Evans are even worse than I/L and F/p now -_-

So evans should be stronger than archmages despite having more support skills? =/

Doesn't matter to me either way though. As long as archmages can deal decent
damage at bossing, I'm content. (:

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - Rigumaro - 2010-07-07

Patchouli Wrote:Woah, what? Burn's DoT is actually a useful damage boost now?

Well, my lvl 11 Grenade does 5,7k on Grims. Flame shot, 10k. Combined is 15k per second. But anyways, flame shot hits do around 35~50k each. Maybe only useful at bosses, because of their higher HP. (It helped at papulatus, cause he was still getting burn damage when he was hiding)

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - Shidoshi - 2010-07-07

It's currently hard to compare classes, specially if they use different weapons (gotta take equips in account then).

You can compare them to F/P and I/L, I posted some pages back a table with their % DPS, just take
(skilldmg% + critchance*critdmg)*amp*ewand*avgdmgfrommastery*MDratereduction/casttime

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - JoeTang - 2010-07-07

Fiel Wrote:I'm concerned about 1 second stun, though. That's like... almost nothing in the grand scheme of things. Isn't 2 - 4 seconds optimal? How is 1 second stun even remotely useful?

Considering how Phoenix only attacks every 3030ms, yes, 1 second stun is garbage. At the least, things it aggros won't immediately be looking for a hole to thrust in to.

FluffyFoxxie Wrote:How is a skill that hits 6 and petrifies enemies being only slightly weaker (per target) than a skill that hits only 3 enemies with no added effects fair? 1v1 @ bosses fair, maybe, but F/P definately have the upper hand with mobs.

How do you know it's only slightly weaker?


God, I can't believe they buffed Heroes again. At least they made Paladins stronger too, but I don't think they understand how Crusher seems to work. Maybe they lowered the delays to make up for it.

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - Shidoshi - 2010-07-07

Shidoshi Wrote:I'll just leave this here:
[Image: mpz01.jpg]

Note that I assumed critical damage is additive (everything points towards that) and that it gives +35% on average (i've heard it's 20-50% now).

Assumed average damage (in between max and minimum).

Assumed MDrate from bosses 25% reducing damage by 25% but not DoT (as proved).

Assumed DoT does the max of your dmg range (it does).

JoeTang Wrote:How do you know it's only slightly weaker?

Quoting myself.

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - SwordStaker - 2010-07-07

Shidoshi Wrote:Quoting myself.
I'm sorry I have no idea what that means >.> Just how do Evans compare to the other mages. I know its obvious their above bishops. But what about i/l and f/p

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - FluffyFoxxie - 2010-07-07

JoeTang Wrote:How do you know it's only slightly weaker?

Someone posted a DPS comparison a few pages back. I don't know how accurate the data is, however.

Edit: Ninja'd by the person that made the sheet Tongue

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - Dusk - 2010-07-07

I feel like they're trying to render some of the dumb unbalanced shit that localized versions introduced useless. Onyx Apples are really gamebreaking in the current game, and with every other skill adding some form of Attack, they may no longer be as overpowered.

I'd also have said Elemental Wands until I found out they could have potential scrolls used on them. Something really needs to be done about those things.

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - Shidoshi - 2010-07-07

SwordStaker Wrote:I'm sorry I have no idea what that means >.> Just how do Evans compare to the other mages. I know its obvious their above bishops. But what about i/l and f/p

Seems like I have no idea what's the attack speed for Illusion. Hard to work without that...

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - Hazzy - 2010-07-07

Can't they tell the other versions to remove the content?

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - jhkplaya888 - 2010-07-07

This is so dumb....now sairs will be like 2x better then every other class T_T

*edit
i rofl at apples getting over ridden Big Grin

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - FluffyFoxxie - 2010-07-07

Hazzy Wrote:Can't they tell the other versions to remove the content?

haha no-one would buy weddings if it werent for apples. GMS wouldn't get rid of them.

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - donovan - 2010-07-07

Dusk Wrote:I feel like they're trying to render some of the dumb unbalanced shit that localized versions introduced useless. Onyx Apples are really gamebreaking in the current game, and with every other skill adding some form of Attack, they may no longer be as overpowered.

I'd also have said Elemental Wands until I found out they could have potential scrolls used on them. Something really needs to be done about those things.

Apples are one story, but E-Wands are another, the only problem with those is every Version not having them Apples, right now, do more for some classes than they do for others.

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - Hazzy - 2010-07-07

FluffyFoxxie Wrote:haha no-one would buy weddings if it werent for apples. GMS wouldn't get rid of them.

"Apples now provide +100% weapon and magic attack!"

There, fixed. Everyone wins.

Anyway, if NexonKO says to remove it, NexonNA doesn't have the choice to say no.

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - JoeTang - 2010-07-07

Shidoshi Wrote:Quoting myself.

I thought he meant the damage reduction per mob.

You still need confirmation that damage over time is affected by Elemental Amplification or Elemental Wands, don't you? All I know right now is that it works off of your range; i.e. literally 160%/s. The 160% may be affected by Amplification or Wand, but your range surely is not, as those things affect spell base damage.

Also, you shouldn't be including Magic Mastery's bonus into the equation. You don't include Bow Expertise into a Bow Master's DPS, do you? It affects their overall Magic Attack, which has nothing to do with %/s.

Illusion attack speed is in 2010ms. Here
370%x4 Illusion @ 2010ms -3 Booster
150% Amplification
110% Dragon Fury
1358.8%/s

Don't know how much Phantom Imprint does. Blaze is a better single target DPS I believe anyways.

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - Dusk - 2010-07-07

Not every version has Ele Wands/Staves either. Putting aside the 25% damage boost to a specific element, the Ele Staves have 178 attack clean. Holy hell what? That's almost 50 attack higher than a Reverse Staff, and far beyond what a level 100 Staff is even capable of reaching. A well scrolled Timeless Staff can hardly beat that. If they balance mages in KMS to be competitive with other classes using Staves that have 11x~13x attack clean, then mages in GMS will seem like they're permanently on Apples.

Oh, and they also get the 25% damage boost. Yeah.

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - Turtally - 2010-07-07

Dusk Wrote:Not every version has Ele Wands/Staves either. Putting aside the 25% damage boost to a specific element, the Ele Staves have 178 attack clean. Holy hell what? That's almost 50 attack higher than a Reverse Staff, and far beyond what a level 100 Staff is even capable of reaching. A well scrolled Timeless Staff can hardly beat that. If they balance mages in KMS to be competitive with other classes using Staves that have 11x~13x attack clean, then mages in GMS will seem like they're permanently on Apples.

Oh, and they also get the 25% damage boost. Yeah.

Except hardly anyone uses the 163 staffs.

[1.2.326] (4) Really last chance! - JoeTang - 2010-07-07

Dusk Wrote:Not every version has Ele Wands/Staves either. Putting aside the 25% damage boost to a specific element, the Ele Staves have 178 attack clean. Holy hell what? That's almost 50 attack higher than a Reverse Staff, and far beyond what a level 100 Staff is even capable of reaching. A well scrolled Timeless Staff can hardly beat that. If they balance mages in KMS to be competitive with other classes using Staves that have 11x~13x attack clean, then mages in GMS will seem like they're permanently on Apples.

Oh, and they also get the 25% damage boost. Yeah.

They'll hopefully begin releasing higher level equipment then since they raised everything's levels by just so much.

Turtally Wrote:Except hardly anyone uses the 163 staffs.

Who the pineapple cares? No one's gonna "hardly" use them once this patch comes into effect. It's not like the 163 staves are NPC fodder.