draconius Wrote:You know how many actually do this? Barely any, so please stop characterizing even a reasonable portion of the population like that. Bishops are characterized as some 50-70% low luk/luk, and 30-50% lukless. Of the lukless ones, we'll be fair and say half of them are reasonably funded or sell leech. Of that, maybe half or 2/3rds will consider an Ele wand, and out of that we have what is basically some 2-5% of the entire bishop population actually owning any of the lvl 130 ele wands. You keep telling me that bishops leech and thus are able to purchase it through leech money, yet, to get this weapon, a bishop would have to leech 100+ hrs at skelegons to fund it, and thats if they sell for enough to defray pot costs. Even the power leechers that do some 14hrs on weekends will need a month or so to save up for this.

Furthermore, the money/stat ratio to upgrade these things is hardly the best one out there. A decently scrolled Lvl 64 maple weapon will sell for some 100-150Mill and have some 100+ stats or so. A CRAPPY Ele wand 6 or 8 will sell for 600-700Mill,a nd will have maybe a 40-50Stat increase at best over the maple weapon. Thats some 550Mill for a 40 stat boost, which comes out to 10M/stat. Again, I can find a list of things that can be upgraded for cheap compared to these, and therefore it can be argued that this is an END GAME upgrade for bishops, whereas archmages buy this FIRST. What this means is that only the most wealthy of bishops would ever consider buying one of these, whereas most will be content with a shield/cape/earring upgrade instead. More to the point, it only really matters when you're about to 1hit skeles anyways (since who the heck would be thinking of buying an ele wand first if they can't 2hit 'em), incidentally meaning that Genesis would be maxed, which is another financial hurdle to overcome.

This all boils down to a very small sect of bishops that are able to purchase these wands, and yet we're going to say that they have no right to use them? This isn't a food shortage; its a luxury shortage. It's more comparable to the Hilton running out of caviar than it is to hungry masses running out of bread because this isn't a NECESSITY. Archmages won't keel over and die if they don't have a wand, and if they really wanted the 25% bonus, it doesn't exactly kill them to buy 1-4, which presumably few if any bishops would ever be "collecting" or using. Therefore, this is a WANT, not a NEED. A NEED can be justified as requiring extraordinary conditions from Nexon, but a WANT is simply just a desire for a desireable outcome. Yeah, it'll help mages if they can 2hit or onehit earlier, but they won't be unable to play the game without them, which is a fallacy that many people are making at this point. If Nexon really thought that these things SHOULD go to archmages because they need them, the droprate for them would be much higher, or they would drop from mobs. That they are instead a rare gachapon drop suggests that this is indeed a luxury, and the availability of luxuries is dictated by a market. Bishops that purchased their wands owe absolutely nothing to archmages because they purchased them at market value. There was an equality of opportunity there for archmages to purchase them as well, but then again, none of you are terribly interested in 6 and 8 in the first place.

Ray Wrote:Just remember nexon's in it for the profit, and as a few people have said, eweps come from gach, and if they make it undesirable for bishops (perhaps the most popular class by far) then they'd lose alot of gach income.

In a sense, nexon would rather screw over I/Ls and F/Ps than bishops, majority rules here, sorry AMs, shoulda picked cleric on your 2nd job adv.

loddlaen Wrote:That makes 2 that I heard of now.
But I know a few AM's who have 2, one for when they use Ice attacks, one for lightning attacks.

Kabanaw Wrote:Why do people keep missing what I'm saying? I had a problem with that one person that supposedly bought multiple ones. I'll just say this right now:

I DO NOT CARE IF BISHOPS BUY ELEMENTAL WEAPONS. IF THEY GET A USE OUT OF THEM, THEN THEY SHOULD BUY IT.

While I would prefer Bishops couldn't use the weapons, I have no problems with them using them as long as they get an advantage. I just didn't like it when one specific bishop supposedly bought multiple wands for no reason other than aesthetics. I never said anything against Bishops buying one wand.


This thread is just getting more and more circular. It's already been argued that Nexon won't change ele weapons because they lose profit; It's already been argued that it's rare for people to go to gach EXCLUSIVELY to find an elemental weapon. They'd lose a few thousand dollars at most, which when already looking at their gigantic profit margin isn't that much.

eos367 Wrote:The difference there being if I swap between a 190 mattack Ice Staff and a 190 mattack Lightning staff, my damage actually changes.

A bishop's doesn't.

I have a legitimate value in having one of each of my type. There is no type that adds value to a bishop beyond the mattack, so multiple "flavors" of approximately the same mattack are just hoarding.

Quote:(and really, ONE instance of this vs. how many instances of AMs holding 2). Again, the point to reiterate here is that I could spend all my money to horde Ribgols and Stonetooths for all anyone is allowed to care, and no one has the right to question my ABILITY to do this (although my sanity could easily be put into question).

Quote:Whether you want them to fix the damage like other versions or not, at least reply to tell Nexon that you want Nexon to explain how they should be working in our version

draconius Wrote:That was clearly not the message that you conveyed when you wrote your replies. The analogy to a food shortage could easily refer to a bishop taking something that is "rightfully" an archmages. At any rate, this whole thing has literally been blown out of proportion. You can point out 1 bishop that has that many elemental wands, and I can point out that I just saw a thread on sleepy where a NL had 3 Ele wand 5s for sale (presumably he sold one). The fact of the matter is, its their money, and they can spend it however they wish to spend it. There is no restriction that these "ought" to belong to one group or another, and lets not delude ourselves into believing that the market and the sheer commodity of these things is tiny enough so that ONE bishop hording 4 of them is going to raise the price significantly (and really, ONE instance of this vs. how many instances of AMs holding 2). Again, the point to reiterate here is that I could spend all my money to horde Ribgols and Stonetooths for all anyone is allowed to care, and no one has the right to question my ABILITY to do this (although my sanity could easily be put into question).

Again, I have stated that no one gaches exclusively for this wand, but it influences their decision, and at a time when Nexon is trying to encourage gachapon and at a time when little kids' allowances are getting smaller and smaller, that could easily make or break a proposal to buy tickets. It's not a thousand dollars that's at stake here; when you have something that could trigger an onset of purchasing, the potential lost is much more significant. Again, how many people are going to gach at NLC if they know that the best thing they can get is an Ele wand 5 selling for less than 100mill? They certainly won't be spending more than 25 tickets I'm assuming.

Quote:Knowing this makes it all the more comforting to know that its been as many years since these wands were released with no penalty without explanation.

Bribery Wrote:At this point, it's way too late to implement the holy reduction as many Bishops and Arch Mages have spent billions to get their EWand. There is going to be a lot of backlash for Nexon if they implement it now, because both Arch Mages and Bishops are going to lose money.

I don't know why people think that a holy reduction is going to magically make these wands more available and affordable. Sure, the Poison and Lightning wands will deflate but the Fire and Ice wands are going to stay expensive regardless. They're end-game weapons for Arch Mages and they provide more of a power boost than billions of mesos worth of shields, earrings, and overalls. The 700m+ price tag on these weapons is worth every meso.

Devil's Sunrise Wrote:First paragraph: How do they lose money?

Second paragraph: It will be cheaper as bishops would need to get rid of them. More supply and less demand basically pushes the price down.

Bribery Wrote:Didn't you basically answer your first question with your second point? :f6:

There will obviously be some initial deflation, but Ice and Fire Wands will still be expensive and most likely still in the 1b range, for Ice at least. EWand7 is already the most expensive wand for a reason. There are plenty of Ice Mages around. Take a look at MapleSEA, where they have the holy reduction. Ice Berg wands (lvl 130 Ice) sells for 1b+ clean, which is roughly the GMS price tag. EWand5 is the rarest out of the 4 EWands in GMS. F/P's may be a small class, but there is still a small supply of wands for them.

The wands are still rare from gach and they seem to have become less common than they were a few months ago. I browse the FM a lot and I've only seen 2-3 Ewands for sale this month. If the fix/nerf is implemented, there will be an initial surge of wands on the market. After those are bought, then what? The supply will slowly dry up, causing inflation again.

Devil's Sunrise Wrote:I didn't. They earn money by selling it, don't they?

It's like saying that I lost money by buying a 117 Heaven's Gate for 360 mill before Himes came out (2 years ago). Its estimated value today is most likely 12 mill or so, right? Does that mean that I lost money on it?

Bribery Wrote:Ah, I get your point. I should have said "Bishops will lose money, while Arch Mages could have gotten their wands for cheaper/saved NX".

eos367 Wrote:Arch mages have no room to complain about "I could've got it cheaper", every class knows that the earliest adopters for anything pay the most. Hell, I paid 1.2b for a type 4 staff, yes, the full luck level 103 secondary (lightning) one, just because it was the first in Mardia.

Would it bother me in the slightest if they were 30 mesos on the street corner now? No. I got mine months ahead of the majority of the population and paid a premium for that, that's just economics.

I paid 200m for blizzard 30 when it's going for 20m now. 400m for MW20... these things happen. Anyone who whines about it would've found something else to whine about anyhow.

Most of the complaint here isn't about price - It's about availability of these. Because an extra 2/3rds the magician classes can technically use them right now for mattack alone, they're that much harder to come by. Even people who have a billion plus mesos can't necessarily get one because they're in the hands of people they weren't made for.

If/when Nexon fixes this bishops can turn around and sell them for extortionary level prices for all I care - having more of them available at all is better than now.

eos367 Wrote:Arch mages have no room to complain about "I could've got it cheaper", every class knows that the earliest adopters for anything pay the most. Hell, I paid 1.2b for a type 4 staff, yes, the full luck level 103 secondary (lightning) one, just because it was the first in Mardia.

Would it bother me in the slightest if they were 30 mesos on the street corner now? No. I got mine months ahead of the majority of the population and paid a premium for that, that's just economics.

I paid 200m for blizzard 30 when it's going for 20m now. 400m for MW20... these things happen. Anyone who whines about it would've found something else to whine about anyhow.

Most of the complaint here isn't about price - It's about availability of these. Because an extra 2/3rds the magician classes can technically use them right now for mattack alone, they're that much harder to come by. Even people who have a billion plus mesos can't necessarily get one because they're in the hands of people they weren't made for.

If/when Nexon fixes this bishops can turn around and sell them for extortionary level prices for all I care - having more of them available at all is better than now.