Southperry.net
Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - Printable Version

+- Southperry.net (https://www.southperry.net)
+-- Forum: Misc MMO's (https://www.southperry.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Forum: League of Legends (https://www.southperry.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=93)
+--- Thread: Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread (/showthread.php?tid=33481)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - Five Second Pose - 2011-12-05

FenixR Wrote:TL;DR Single Target junglers (Warwick for example) Sucks by about 20-40secs compared to a AoE jungler (Phoenix Stance Udyr). Also Banking system only kicks in 2 minutes after the spawn/respawn of the camp, and the most optimal/efficient way to jungle its to clear these camps 45 secs or less after it respawn.

so basically you saw theoddone reading it too

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - FenixR - 2011-12-05

Rayquaza2233 Wrote:so basically you saw theoddone reading it too

The who doing what?

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - Derosis - 2011-12-05

FenixR Wrote:The who doing what?

The #2 Jungler in the world is TheOddOne. He is probably the one guy you watch on livestream if you want to know how to jungle and what to use and to learn his tatics.

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - FenixR - 2011-12-05

Just for future reference, i dont watch anyone for anything, at least as far as (e)sports go.

Also i dont know what the pineapple its happening lately, playing with noc suddenly he stop attacking/chasing in the mid of it, and even becomes frozen for a sec or two. Its really annoying and had cost me a few games, planning to reinstall this shet.

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - WillDaSnail - 2011-12-05

KajitiSouls Wrote:Hay gaiz wats going on in here!?!? I will be back and suck at LoL again in a few weeks hopefully xD

Did engineering problems nearly kill you? Tongue1

Anyways, same goes for me. Not much LoL until the end of the semester (which is end of next week, btw). Which means I get rusty at LoL just like you do. (Then again, I raped face with Jungle Cho this past weekend as a result of me needing to take a break from studying + testing the hotfixed jungle. Jungle Cho sleeper OP jungler now. Calling it).

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - ElectricSix - 2011-12-05

WillDaSnail Wrote:Did engineering problems nearly kill you? Tongue1

Anyways, same goes for me. Not much LoL until the end of the semester (which is end of next week, btw). Which means I get rusty at LoL just like you do. (Then again, I raped face with Jungle Cho this past weekend as a result of me needing to take a break from studying + testing the hotfixed jungle. Jungle Cho sleeper OP jungler now. Calling it).

I have to disagree with the whole sleeper OP thing. Cho'Gath is a good jungler, but not OP. The reason he's not OP is as always for two reasons: First, he requires a skillshot knockup to gank. Skillshot cc is not a reliable ganking method. If you're lucky, you might kill them or burn flash/blink ability. If you're unlucky, well you just opened yourself up to harass and kiting while revealing yourself to the other lanes.

However it's the secondary reason that is the main reason jungle Cho will never be OP; he requires a solo lane's worth of farm. Now don't get me wrong, you can still do a lot with an underfarmed Cho'Gath, he's got some nice burst and utility even then. However, you're not going to be surviving team fights and being a big scary monster for long if you're at all underfarmed. The more items you have on him, the better Cho gets. And as a jungler, you're always going to be behind a solo in farm. And that's going to start showing up mid-late game. Mid game, it might be dying once or twice when you wouldn't have with that one more item. Or maybe it'll mean missing out on an easy kill, but it'll probably be a relatively small disadvantage. When it starts getting to late game though, that's when being underfarmed as Cho will lose games for your team. In an ideal scenario, every time you die late game, it results in at least two deaths on the enemy team, maybe more. If they focus you, your team should be wiping them out. And if they don't focus you, you should be full comboing at least one or two carries, resulting in their death or flight from the team fight. However, if you're at all underfarmed, you'll be lucky to take one person with you, or even more unluckily, they ignore you and focus everyone else down, leaving you in a 4 or 3 v 1, where all you can do is run or die.

TLDR: Unless they change things up a bit more, solo top Cho will always be preferred to jungle Cho so he can get fully farmed.

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - ItachiPower - 2011-12-05

[Image: thisteam.png]

Lux and Yi carried us so hard.. Fun game nonetheless.

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - WillDaSnail - 2011-12-06

ElectricSix Wrote:I have to disagree with the whole sleeper OP thing. Cho'Gath is a good jungler, but not OP. The reason he's not OP is as always for two reasons: First, he requires a skillshot knockup to gank. Skillshot cc is not a reliable ganking method. If you're lucky, you might kill them or burn flash/blink ability. If you're unlucky, well you just opened yourself up to harass and kiting while revealing yourself to the other lanes.

However it's the secondary reason that is the main reason jungle Cho will never be OP; he requires a solo lane's worth of farm. Now don't get me wrong, you can still do a lot with an underfarmed Cho'Gath, he's got some nice burst and utility even then. However, you're not going to be surviving team fights and being a big scary monster for long if you're at all underfarmed. The more items you have on him, the better Cho gets. And as a jungler, you're always going to be behind a solo in farm. And that's going to start showing up mid-late game. Mid game, it might be dying once or twice when you wouldn't have with that one more item. Or maybe it'll mean missing out on an easy kill, but it'll probably be a relatively small disadvantage. When it starts getting to late game though, that's when being underfarmed as Cho will lose games for your team. In an ideal scenario, every time you die late game, it results in at least two deaths on the enemy team, maybe more. If they focus you, your team should be wiping them out. And if they don't focus you, you should be full comboing at least one or two carries, resulting in their death or flight from the team fight. However, if you're at all underfarmed, you'll be lucky to take one person with you, or even more unluckily, they ignore you and focus everyone else down, leaving you in a 4 or 3 v 1, where all you can do is run or die.

TLDR: Unless they change things up a bit more, solo top Cho will always be preferred to jungle Cho so he can get fully farmed.

Unfortunately, I will have to disagree with some of the points you have made here.

The statement I made about Jungle Cho being "sleeper OP" in the jungling role is coming from someone who has logged countless hours playing him in the jungle and understand how to play him in the jungler inside and out. His potential as a jungler all around is simply put, amazing, especially in light of recent jungling changes. Unfortunately - and this is not directed to you personally, or anyone else here - 80-90% of the LoL community is sheep, and won't critically think for themselves. For those that are aware of his jungling capabilities and what he can bring to the team as a whole, they know he's very strong and when used right, can be quite deadly, per say. But right now a lot of people don't know what he can bring to the team overall as a jungler, hence he's a top tier, "niche" jungler, as I liked to call it.

But with that said, for the record, I don't deny that Cho is one of the best top solo laners in LoL. In fact, he's one of the best. But when playing him in the jungle, its a bit different. However, how different? That's when one has to go explore for themselves. But what I can say from my experience is that with the recent jungling changes, he now clears camps much faster now in general; his clear times goes up exponentially after level 6 (I can demolish the Ancient Golem or the Elder Lizard camp in 5 seconds flat at level 6 with a Feast + Smite combo, for instance). And he can counter-jungle very well, which I had the opportunity to do so just very recently. Its simply outplaying the enemy jungler and taking advantage of an open enemy jungler when the enemy jungler goes out and do something (and is explicitly shown doing so).

And about being "outfarmed" and "outleveled"? I can refute that statement easily. I recently ran him in the hotfixed jungle just mere hours after it came out, and I was able to keep up with levels. In fact, I even explicitly asked my teammates in-game "Hey, am I keeping up with leveling on par with you guys?" They all have said I was doing well, and there was nothing I should be alarmed of. In fact, last time(s) I played jungle Cho, I was able to maintain a LOT of farm, keep up with levels, as well as shut down the opposing jungler in levels AND gold income when I had the chance to do so.

When I play jungle Cho, I do my roles. Farm in the jungle, come out and gank, then farm up in the jungle (or go counter-jungle if opportunity presents itself). I occasionally come out to lane to help hold a lane or push it a bit, which I take the opportunity to farm up on minions and get myself ahead. But I don't rely the majority of my farm on minions alone. A lot of my farm comes from just jungling by itself. I supplement my gold income with GP5 items, of which I convert the ones I use to my full builds item later on in the game. Combine all of this, and I will have a decent - if not, very good - farm and gold income by the time late game rolls around.

(tl;dr - you have to know Cho's kit really well and utilize it to the max to be able to maintain a stable gold income that will be able to get you your full build - hopefully - by a reasonable point in the game).

And playing Jungle Cho is a bit tricky too. I will say that you are right that landing his Rupture is tricky. If you want to play jungle Cho well, that's a skill that one has to get down and practice over time. But when you land it, that's up to 3 seconds of CC right there (1 sec knockup + 2 sec 60% slow, all ranks), and it can be quite devastating. Add on screaming the already-CC'd target for up to 2 secs of Silence (at level 1), which in the ideal situation, will leave the target almost helpless. When that happens, 1) target has to flash away and maybe go back to fountain and heal up, putting him/her behind a bit or 2) die, and put me or the allied laner ahead in terms of gold and EXP.

But right now, I really think you are misinformed. Nothing biggie though, I do understand your concerns. Not a lot of players run jungle Cho, and not a lot of solid information is out there for everyone to know. Hence why I'm writing a guide for jungle Cho to very much tell you guys how to play Cho, his capabilites in the jungle as well as in the battlefield, as well as address his benefits to a team composition.

Also, I do invite you to check out the hotfixed jungle. There's lots of things you could take a look at instead of relying on previous opinion(s) on previous revamped jungle.

If you have anything that you want to be addressed, please let me know. Biggrin

 And to conclude my response to your post, here are a few visual examples, with commentary

I also have LoL Replay files of these matches if you want to see what I did in the game, and how a well-played jungle Cho can wreck face really hard on the enemy team.

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - ElectricSix - 2011-12-06

Nah, I still have to disagree with your assessment. I've said it before, but I'll say it again, he's a good jungler, but he's nowhere near a sleeper OP for the jungle. He's a viable jungler in this current jungle incarnation, but that's it. It's not because people are sheep that they don't play him jungle, it's simply a matter of choice. I can have a solid top, that if allowed to farm, will do great things mid to late game, or I can have a good jungler who may or may not be of use to the team mid to late game. If given that choice, they will without a doubt, choose to lane him top lane. For starter, let's look at who he has to go up against for top junglers after the recent patches: Skarner, Udyr, Amumu, Rammus, Maokai. All of them have solid aoe and cc that is far superior to what Cho will provide coming from the jungle. About the only inferior cc is Udyr, but he usually can make up for it with sheer speed when it comes to jungling, counterjungling, ganking, counterganking, clearing, holding lanes, etc. due to bear + phoenix stance.

So lets see, Cho vs Skarner: Skarner, superior level 6 ganking, worse pre 6 ganking unless with red buff and ghost or flash. Sustain is fairly similar. Shield provides movement speed buff, so overall clears, counterjungles, and ganks are faster. He's weak against kiting teams, but his ult is a great way to secure a kill while taking out someone important on the enemy side. Flash pulls can win games, especially if you catch the enemy unprepared for it. Loses out on tankiness to Cho in general, but a solid pick if you have some other bruisers and cc to back him up.

Cho vs Udyr: Although I went over it, let's go over it again: about the same in CC, unless Udyr in bear stance is allowed to hit someone more than once, but overall Cho has a better chance to land his CC. However, catching up to that person is still iffy without some other CC to lock down the target. Sustain is similar, clears go to Udyr thanks to bear stances movement speed buff. Hard pressed to win against kite teams, but any team with few cc or slows makes Udyr a terror, as he will force your team to focus him down before he can go through and stun your entire team one at a time before getting to the carry in back and beating him up. Cho works in a similar manner, but Udyr's phoenix stance, speed, and aoe is generally better than Cho's for chasing and jungling.

Cho vs Amumu: Amumu has decent CC pre 6, but great CC after that, flash Ults can almost assure kills. Loses out to Cho in sustain and lack of blue buff really hurts his jungle. Still a solid pick because he can jungle hop camps with bandage toss, allowing him to clear decently fast and again, double CC makes his ganks supremely effective. He's ideal for teams with high AoE or ones that require ad carries to get multiple solid attacks against a specific target without fear of reprisal. Cho's only aoe CC is on a shorter cd compared to Amumu's, but Amumu is much more likely to land his ult and snare 3-5 people than Cho is going to with his. Also, Amumu's bandage toss is a great initiation, whereas Cho either has to land a rupture and walk over, or walk over hoping to land a rupture. Either option is going to be slower and riskier than Amumu's, albeit Amumu can force more bad fights with his initiation than Cho generally can.

Cho vs Rammus: Rammus has great ganking potential as soon as his taunt gets to a decent level. Pre 6 it's generally not that high so his ganks aren't sure kills, but with powerball slow, and taunt, he's got a decent chance at killing anyone that's even slightly overextended. His sustain is below Cho's, and he's a rather squishy jungler with some fairly heavy mana costs, but being able to take out a person for sure in a team fight is a big plus, and his ganks obviously are a great help to getting a lane into an advantageous position. Powerball adds to his clear speed and traversing lane to lane by a lot as well. Overall he's not good for every team comp, but against certain ones, he can win the game just by taunting the right person in a team fight.

Cho vs Maokai: Maokai has great pre 6 CC with his snare, and okay knockback ability that ends up having a fairly high potential of securing a kill. Similar sustain, but slower clear times due to his relative dependency on blue buff for maximum skill spam and speed clearing. Cho probably beats him clearing later on, but Mao's ult, and his ability to snare the carry in the back of a team are sometimes too good of options to exclude him. He excels against AoE team comps, or teams that are all about protecting that one champion to win a fight. Maokai isn't as tough to kill as Cho, but with his ult up, he can protect his entire team even better than Cho can, and again, his snare allows him to stick to a target more easily.

As for your examples: First of all, shutting down Fiddlesticks is not an accomplishment in light of the recent jungle changes. He's a mana dependent, high single target damage jungler. Anyone, and I mean anyone, that has any aoe, will beat him easily. The only advantage Fiddle's has as a jungler is his ult, and that's not usually worthwhile if you end up that far behind the enemy jungler.

Next example is a Trundle game, another single target jungler. One of the better ones for sure, but after this last patch, every single target jungler will be beaten by junglers with aoe. It's not hard to tell that. Even with Shaco counter jungling you, you're going to win because of your aoe. But that says nothing about Cho specifcally, and alot about the aoe junglers from this patch. I will give you that you being Cho would help you secure buffs more easily than other aoe junglers against strong counterjungling, but if they're going to such extremes, your other lanes should be winning regardless, leaving their team with two underfarmed, underfed champions vs one underfarmed and underfed champion.

I'm sure you have some evidence of Cho beating other AoE junglers, if you've been playing him that much, but the problem I have with your evidence, is that none of it makes me go, OMG, that jungle Cho won us the game hands down, when you could have been a lane Cho and possibly shut down a lane and forced the enemy jungler to camp your lane just to keep things even. Instead of effectively tying up one enemy champion, you've just forced two champions to deal with you. And if you're far enough ahead, even two champions won't be able to stop you. They'll have to three man or four man gank you to stop you. And at that point, if you have competent team members, you have effectively just won the game. That's what lane Cho offers to your team. Jungle Cho . . . not so much. Now that is an extreme example, of a Cho'Gath doing exceptionally well, so I don't expect to get that every game if someone is going Cho, but not feeding the enemy team, farming up tons, and even denying top lane experience or farm, is still something that I consider to be more worthwhile than jungling as far as Cho is concened.

P.S. Don't go boots of swiftness, I don't care why you think they're a worthwhile purchase, but any number of other options would have been so much better. In fact, go Movespeed Quints instead, or utility/defensive tree movement speed, or both, any of which would be better than going boots of swiftness. Especially so if you're getting that FoN most games.

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - KajitiSouls - 2011-12-06

WillDaSnail Wrote:Did engineering problems nearly kill you? [NOPARSE]Tongue1[/NOPARSE]

Anyways, same goes for me. Not much LoL until the end of the semester (which is end of next week, btw). Which means I get rusty at LoL just like you do. (Then again, I raped face with Jungle Cho this past weekend as a result of me needing to take a break from studying + testing the hotfixed jungle. Jungle Cho sleeper OP jungler now. Calling it).

Tch, I manhandled most of my engineering problems. That 50+ hour midterm? 100% babay!

While I think Cho'Gath is slightly OP, I don't think he's a sleeper OP jungler. His best ganking tool would be his Rupture, which by itself is a bit unreliable. To be fair, depending on the tools your allies have, you can create interesting situations that makes it easier to land Rupture. It can potentially cause your victim(s) great misery because if your Rupture lands, the silence skill adds salt to the wound as not only are they still CC'd via slow, but now they can't really retaliate/escape for a few more seconds.

That said, I have the balls to say that Skarnerssss makes a better jungler than Cho anyways. The problems I am annoyed by with Cho is his moderate cooldowns, and his skills are very expensive relatively speaking given his mana stats if you're doing the jungle or duo lane.

Related: I dunno if Phreak doesn't play Cho well or what, but in his spotlight, with the exception of his getting ganked by Udyr the first time, nothing he did really remotely wow'd me. Also, he's still playing versus scrubs in Dominion. lol

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - Five Second Pose - 2011-12-06

Derosis Wrote:He is probably the one guy you watch on livestream if you want to know how to jungle and what to use and to learn his tatics.

OddOne has better commentary, but he teaches only one style of jungling. There's two main kinds of jungling.

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - Corn - 2011-12-06

Can't wait until I get the runes for a proper jungle Cho to say how I feel about his jungle

<<<<God at landing Cho'Gath's Qs.

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - Aynia - 2011-12-06

Cho doesn't even need runes. You can basically run him jungle with 0 runes and masteries.

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - WillDaSnail - 2011-12-06

This time...you're really trying to tell me that Cho is a ****ty jungler. Again, you're wrong. Very wrong.

And there's a reason why I get Boots of Swiftness in my builds. Having a nice chunk of mobility for early/mid game jungling is great, especially when its needed to move around the jungle quickly and in between lanes. And before anything else, I think you should look at my build a bit as a whole and ask yourself what I'm accomplishing instead of simply going out and pointing out every single thing I'm doing wrong with my build. Actually to give you the benefit of the doubt, I do invite you to think what I'm doing with my build before you go and criticize me for it. Of course, what I do sometimes is that if I have extra money lying around after full build is done, I sometimes switch a couple of items out depending on the situation.

About the MS quints + masteries: Um I think you should actually take a look at my jungle Cho rune page before you call me out for not using them. And for the record, I use both the Initiator and the utility MS masteries.

And I don't buy into the AoE vs single target junglers type of debate that's going on. Sure, its known that AoE junglers will have an advantage over single target junglers, naturally. No doubt about it. But doesn't mean that having an AoE jungler - in this case, jungle Cho - vs a single-target enemy jungler will mean automatic victory. It all comes down to skillfully using your champ, aka how well you play your champ in the jungle (including counter-jungling), as well as outplaying the enemy in the battlefield overall.

While I do give you due credit for bringing these valid points up, I really still feel you are really, really misinformed, to say the least. =\

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - shouri - 2011-12-06

*sees Ray's Edit*
I love you Ray. You bring hilarious entertainment amidst silly arguments.

In other news: I'm learning heimerderper :3
stupidly easy to play. 1 co op -> straight into normals.

got accused of KSing too much... after KSing ONCE because of my rockets >> but whatever ^^

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - ElectricSix - 2011-12-06

He's not a pomegranatety jungler, but you seem to think he's at the top of the junglers and somehow "sleeper OP" which means he has to beat out every other AoE jungler somehow. That's what overpowered means you know, that his power level is above that of every other jungler, and that no one knows it, thus the sleeper statement. I just tried to show you that I do know his strengths, but they are not superior or overpowered compared to other aoe junglers. He's a good jungler, and viable in this meta, but if given the choice, I think most people would take one of the junglers I listed and put him top lane. That's not because Cho is terrible at the jungle, it's just that top lane is better for him while the other champions are better in the jungle.

You're going for a tank initiator build, which is fine on Cho. Let's take a look at your item choices from your examples:

Elysia's miracle, not my fav item, but it can work. You skip out on Merc treads that way, which is fine, albeit I feel like with your build, a Shurelia's reverie would be more useful to allow your entire team to catch up to the enemy as you start to initiate.

You like Randuins, which is fine, gives you on hit attack speed reduction and an active to slow enemies . . . however if we're going purely by items, a Frozenheart would be better in case the enemy team aren't complete idiots. If you're still at the point where enemy teams focus you every team fights no matter what, then it's fine, but if they at all focus anyone else first, your Randuin's just got a lot less effective at shutting down the ranged ad. Still, it's not a terrible choice as it does give you some nice stats and if you're able to get into the enemy team and set off the active, then you are helping your team catch up and disrupting them.

A FoN is always nice on a Cho with max stacks + any other hp item, gives good movement speed and regen, letting you take some hits, get out of the fight, and then come back in for round 2.

Banshee's Veil is a solid item choice, but because you already got a FoN, I feel like it's somewhat of a waste. I think it'd be better to start working on a damage item. Rod of Ages works, as would Wit's End, as would Abyssal Scepter. Any of those options allows you to gain some damage without losing too much tankiness and keeps you a greater threat mid to late game.

GA is a solid choice on every champ and it does give some good armor and mr, but I really prefer other items to it unless you're building almost all damage. A Cho with GA and no damage item on the enemy team = me ignoring you and killing everyone else on your team, then taking the 3-5 of us left and killing you. I've built GA's on Cho before, it's not a terrible choice if you're initiating and getting one shot, but uhh, if that's happening, well the game is going pretty poorly for your team and any item you buy isn't going to change that fact. The main reason you get that GA is to make the enemy team think twice about focusing you, which is the last thing you want to do if you're going tank initiator Cho. This also hurts your Randuin's choice, as people shouldn't be autoattacking you if you've got your GA up.

And as for your boots of swiftness, I'd rather see Ionian boots of Lucidity, ninja tabi, magic pen boots, or boots of mobility, any of them are better option than swiftness. Lucidity means more casts of your bread and butter cc skills, though it's not useful if you're already near max cd reduction. Ninja Tabi is godly against a heavy ad team, especially late game when resists don't matter as much if the enemy team has enough armor pen. Magic Pen boots are for upping your damage and punishing the enemy team for not buying mr, but you have to build some sort of damage item to make it worthwhile honestly. And boots of mobility are for terror ganking early to mid game. Probably pick up some other boots later on in the match, but for the start, it's a solid choice to improve your clear times, your lane to lane movement, counterjungle, etc.

I played tank Cho a lot . . . and I mean alot. He's a good tank if the enemy team isn't competent. However, I reached the point where every game I tried to play pure tank Cho, the enemy team would just focus down my team mates first, and then kill me. That's the point at which I realized I had to buy some sort of damage item to keep myself a threat to the enemy carries. It means you die more in team fights sure, but it also means your team will win those fights more often. That's my main criticism of your OP jungle Cho builds that you've shown, but maybe you just picked two where you hadn't built any damage items. I don't know your builds well enough to say otherwise. If you are doing so in most games, then my hats off to you, but if you're building pure tank Cho every match, I've been there and done that, and while it's fun to be nigh unkillable, there's always a point at which the enemies will start being able to deal with it.

Hmm against some single target junglers your point is valid, but Fiddles really got hurt in the 5-11 range with the jungle changes. Some of the gank heavy junglers are still able to keep up like Noc or Shaco, but a lot of the single target junglers just fall off after 6 in the jungle, and are then forced to make it up with ganks + holding lanes. The first isn't a sure thing, so they can fall further behind, and the second means the enemy team pushed their ally out of lane, so you have to cover it, which is good from a gold/experience perspective on your part, but bad for the pushed out ally as they're falling behind in their lane each time that happens. And bad because you lose all pressure on the other two lanes with them knowing exactly where you are.

You are right that jungling varies game to game, team to team, person to person, and that single target junglers can beat out aoe junglers, however you are handicapping your chances of doing so when you pick them. If you're fine with that, that's fine, but most people prefer to stay on par with the enemy and have a chance to get ahead, instead of starting out behind and having to play catch up. That's the difference between aoe and single target junglers at the moment.

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - KajitiSouls - 2011-12-06

Quote:holy penis what was the point of quoting the entire post

I dunno, but doing [NOPARSE]
ElectricSix;whateverpostnumber Wrote:stuff
[/NOPARSE] works wonders for the ergonomic gods. Emphasis on replacing wall of text with some filler words.

ElectricSix Wrote:GA is a solid choice on every champ

Hell no it's not. Fking waste on squishies, especially squishies with no escapes or short CD burst damage.

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - Phoenix Wright - 2011-12-06

KajitiSouls Wrote:Hell no it's not. Fking waste on squishies, especially squishies with no escapes or short CD burst damage.

Basically this..

Best time imo to get a GA is if you're playing a bruiser and you're quite fed; I feel like there's less incentive to focus fire me first if I'm just going to revive anyways, especially if I'm already rather tanky.

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - Corn - 2011-12-06

If you're playing full tank Cho and your squishies are dieing rather quickly, you're doing it wrong.

In teamfights I initiate with a good Q and W, then I wander back to protect my squishies. I R any assassins or offtanks that get close to them, and I try to *hug* my squishies so the enemy cannot attack them (hopefully you have 6 stacks. This is rather easier than you think). Because I have 40% cooldown reduction (masteries, Ionian Boots of Lucidity, Frozen Heart) I can easily run another Q or W. I've been trying to get rid of the Ionian Boots but that's not really possible until I get CDR runes. All of this hugging and Q+W+R can easily prevent them from getting my carries (and sometimes I even have a Frozen Heart + Randuin's...ha ha slow attack speed). Occasionally I may grab a Sunfire Cape to damage the assassins of my squishies even more.

This is so much easier to do with Cho'Gath than Leona. Leona...E in, Q to stun, then ult the enemy team. I'm probably doing it wrong but I've always done it like this. However this obviously, after the initial burst, makes the enemy team ignore me quite easily. Leona can't "block" your carries, nor can she do a tremendous amount of damage (Feast ftw). All she can do is stun a little bit on the assassin (hurray for Cho'Gath's abilities not really being reduced by Tenacity).

This has always been successful for me. I really oughta play Cho'Gath more but everyone keeps on taking top lane.

Original League of Legends (LoL) Thread - ElectricSix - 2011-12-06

KajitiSouls Wrote:I dunno, but doing [NOPARSE][/NOPARSE] works wonders for the ergonomic gods. Emphasis on replacing wall of text with some filler words.



Hell no it's not. Fking waste on squishies, especially squishies with no escapes or short CD burst damage.

Lol, I just tend to ramble on at times, try hard not to do it too often, but it usually shows up if I'm not watching myself. In this case, I should probably state that Cho is my favorite champion for pure versatility, but being such a jack of all trades champ does mean there's no one right way to build him. Which makes these discussions ultimately rather silly, but still rather interesting from my point of view.

And GA is pretty much a 5th or 6th item for most champs. Maybe 3rd or 4th for bruisers as Phoenix Wright stated. I don't like it on every champ for every team comp, but late game when even squishies want one survivability item, that or Banshee's Veil tends to be the big ones. For AD carries, sometimes a qss is better for the cleanse, but it generally depends on team comp. You can go other routes for sure, but having it, even on squishy champs, is not a bad idea imo. And yes, most casters will choose to go Abyssal/Rod of Ages/Hourglass instead, but I still feel it's still a viable option for most champs.