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+--- Thread: Maplestory is not dying, it is already deceased (/showthread.php?tid=76335)
Maplestory is not dying, it is already deceased - TheBlackMage - 2016-06-09
Malthe Wrote:No, it really isn't. there are games far more unpopular anywhere in the world with far less players that manage to have just as few viewers on twitch. 250 viewers on twitch has not and will probably never indicate that a game is doing well. Like i don't get how you don't get this, you can not use such a pineappleing miniscule amount of viewers as an argument for HEY SEE THIS GAME HAS pomegranateTY VIEWER NUMBERS, BUT BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T CARE ABOUT IT THEY BECOME GOOD NUMBERSWell that's exactly the thing, Maple at this point on twitch is a Niche thing, especially if you're someone from Taiwan who isn't guaranteed to get that many views daily, I understand what you're saying, but for something so non mainstream matching the mainstream regular western streamers, it showcases that even on this ground people come to look at something as odd as TWMS streams, I agree that viewer count isn't meaningful on its own, but I am impressed by the daily counts MS gets compared to what it would be without them on a this foreign site it shows that MS still has some popularity left in it you know? especially where it's not so popular or hot, doing well is what you can easily assert from the stream content but that isn't as objective as numbers.
No they don't
Have you considered the following, something i've said more than just once:
The viewers might be a small but loyal amount of viewers, if you had 250 people that consistently kept watching streams, that'd be cool and it'd show that there was a loyal fanbase, but does it indicate any kind of actual popularity? No. Does it indicate that the game is doing well? No.
Some games have niche followings regardless of their playercount.
It's not decent given the circumstances, it's not decent given anything.
It's just a small number for an unpopular game. I mean for crying out loud pineappleing TIBIA had like 500 viewers the other day, does this mean tibia is doing well because there's a small amount of demand yet 500 people still watched it somehow? No, it just means there's a small but loyal group of fans that still sometimes watch. Tibia is still a dead game regardless, its viewership has nothing to do with the activity of the game. Just like it has nothing to do with the activity of maple.
They easily get more views on other sites and just like I've said koreans either dual stream on (KR+Twitch) KMS or don't bother with twitch, it isn't a random peak, but rather a consistent viewership with peaks during rush hours, I understand that compared to behemoths like LoL, which outranks MS by lightyears, it is not good at all, but that's why you need to compare them relatively, I understand it's a dumb concept to assert popularity from these waves of streamers here and there but it's one of the better metrics left as we can't see current player count anywhere anymore, these views didn't drop through the entire year and that's pretty cool given how niche it is and how people still look for MS on twitch, I understand why it seems meh but there's not many alternatives to it and the consistency is a good indicator that MS is still being played and viewed, this is nothing really compared to that even single streamer, but that's where you can physically see the comparison between how much the west vs east is interested in MS in general.
It's an achievement they are capable of even getting 12 viewers consider how dull MS is to watch.
Anyways this is pointless because you see only high numbers as meaningful and even then it's not a sure indicator to popularity and I understand why, I just don't feel as if it applies to MS which got phased out in twitch by a lot of things and other metrics just don't exist anymore especially when you take an exception to the rule rather than the rule which is a typical GMS streamer.
Maplestory is not dying, it is already deceased - xparasite9 - 2016-06-09
TheBlackMage Wrote:It's an achievement they are capable of even getting 12 viewers consider how dull MS is to watch.
Do you think it is possible to make MapleStory more interesting to watch?
Maplestory is not dying, it is already deceased - Marksman Bryan - 2016-06-09
Grey Wrote:Anti-power creep. Mostly because, from what I could see, they conflated additional options with MEEs. Now I think the official party line is that it makes upgrading things too complicated.
Flames were polled in MLC and there were three main reasons councillors were against it (note that I don't think this had any influence, but I could be wrong):
1) upgrading equips is already complicated enough, flames would just confuse new players more (easily refutable but I digress)
2) too overpowered (confusing it with MEE)
3) scissor limit
Also interesting to point out that several councillors voted (I don't think we ever actually had an official "vote") against it because they didn't want to have to redo their gear, some had no idea what the system actually was, and the others were against it because I was campaigning for it.
Overwhelming majority of councillors did not want to see the system implemented in the end.
As for the whole streaming maplestory... people don't watch for content (outside of special occasions - cubing, scrolling, bossing.. things that don't take up much time). they watch for the streamer. Matt streams meso farming for hours and hours but can still pull 150+ for the whole time.
Maplestory is not dying, it is already deceased - ShinkuDragon - 2016-06-09
TheBlackMage Wrote:That's fine, learn to do some math while you're laughing at the less capable, and search up the word 'relative".
here for you a stream at 9 am http://play.afreecatv.com/skswhdkgo/176295683 800+ viewers btw and there are a lot more, twitch tv is not the site for sharing live streams for maple and when you add the fact that they get a decent amount of viewership, ON DEAD HOURS YES GOD FORBID A VARIABLE THAT IS ABLE TO SHOWCASE US PEAKS AND SUCH aaa, on twitch even compared to these sites, it's decent, but alas adding variables up is too hard for the less capable as they say or god forbid comparing.
Consider these as pathetic number as is, just ignore how it needs people to view the actual stream, thus the streamer needs to available and they usually streaming at not the best hours, that's fine, logic is hard when you just barely passed 3rd grade math.
I never cared if you don't care about how maplestory is declining but ignoring the fact it affects western viewership on a western site and barely any foreign (who plays ms) goes on it, and not say yoku or afreecatv, is just wow.
why don't you just put the numbers when it's not off hours? just show a peak and be done with it.
also with malthe here, 60 viewers is crap on twitch, 60 viewers divided between five streamers, is 5 times worse. and i need to point out that it's not like only TWMS players can watch those streams, anyone in the world with interest in taiwan maplestory can. i could get more viewers by asking active members of SP to check my video. that's how small the amount is.
Maplestory is not dying, it is already deceased - Kobe - 2016-06-09
TheBlackMage Wrote:Here's something you must already realize, No one cares if GMS dies, No one in Nexon KR or anywhere is gonna be that sad about it, hint their management already says all, which is why I understand Khaini's frustration with this damn service, Just face it, making these threads is useless to begin with it won't change anything, this is as far as discussion about it can go, nearly all of you who posted in this thread have quit, and are bickering about useless non sense, Gymleaders; summarized this very well, you (not you specifically) do not know what's going on within the community.
Before I posted anything what pineappleing discussion was there, I bring up a points of contrast which no one starts talking about, ever until I post in these threads with my damn "Game's doing well shame on you guys too bad".
I am not surprised, where have I been ever shocked or surprise, I criticize them for that, many times in fact I had in the past, Yes I'll take their success as an example, do you know why? Because it's an objective view of what's going on, It has numbers it has methods that allow us to reflect on the game is doing, unlike bickering about certain aspects which won't change.
No where did I claim they are that different, what matters is the success of Maple as a whole, and it's doing well, don't you think that through this success something could leak onto GMS, even GMS isn't THAT bad, yeah it's sucky but boo hoo.
It is still content, busywork, that's what MMORPGs are to begin with, a distraction, not everyone gets tired with it, you haven't actually (in regards to link skills), do you think Korean's didn't? they did, it slowed down.
Beforehand we had no options, we had no way to train, just like in those days you were stuck in a water based ocean map for who knows how many levels or a dark background with clocks, yet I see people with nostalgia towards that and no care towards this despite being the same thing, Nexon is pumping out content and more areas, they confirmed it, what the hell do you expect them to do? Once again, it takes months to develop crap that could end within 15 minutes, Look at WoW.
They are adding more pomegranate, more ways to progress, what not, what's so hard to understand? People love toading their items, or making money off of it, it is not available in gms, why wouldn't pomegranate get stale when all of your high end items are staple items with 15 stars maximum go blame Nexon AM and KR.
Rushed? Those maps definitely weren't rushed and they allow you to grind in different areas with different ways without adding power creep to the game and making one map godly, they added WOLF DEN, the pineappleing hunters and random mini games to add variety, I am asking you what more does one need? Maybe MMORPGs aren't as good as they were?? THERE IS competition, Other genres exist, maplestory as an MMORPG ISN'T as bad as it used to be (objectively, once again look at all the additions) now.
No you're the one applying this logic, not me, because the bigger picture is, It is doing well, and I've already said it's ok to think of maple as stale, people are people, go read what I've said, why are you trying to reflect this onto my words? Yeah it could be interpreted as that, Nowhere did I complain about the (ex) GMS players for not liking it, I've explained logically reasons why I think there's a bleed, there are better things to do, demagoguery doesn't help.
Just like I've said, GMS just doesn't matter, how dare they not like the game damn while everyone else enjoys, no, no1cares in KR as long as it's #2 on KR popularity, these are horrible business practices which I DO NOT endorse but this is what's going on with Nexon KR, this is what they think.
Why is no one refuting any of my objective points such as content, socializing, market share in the world, freeing the game from Pay2Win aspects? Because those are true, those are things which are going on, right now, Nexon is developing even more pineappleing areas.
Is the game sick, not as much as it used to, that's the honest truth, and if KR would act kinder towards america it could be better, just like in the KR market, In this regard you're being stuck up, Korea has a huge different in itemization apporach and you're all just ignoring it when it could help, could be, because look no matter how you all said, it is a "different market" with different competition, Nexon is a korean company in US turf, something which failed for many other games, Kobe; Latale Boi.
You can't save the game regardless, is what you all are thinking honestly, I do not like that, there are things which could help manifest it's potential just like in the eastern market and it just doesn't happen and despite being suppressed it is still a good niche game that's fun, how about all of you try to play it once more or just face this belief and move onwards I think pikamemnon actually did despite his stupid threads.
Note: I am sorry if I sound angry but quite honestly I lost composure because many people here just sound selfish in regards to GMS, which is still making tons of people happy and you're just ignoring it, and I understand why that is, but it is not the most important market place :/ as clearly shown by KR
And honestly I am done as none of you listen to how it could be improved with the content that isn't being sent, thinking the game in its core is just catered towards another market completely despite having no proof of this because GMS (The Game DID change after adding pot scrolls and bb, and it doesn't contribute to this either) doesn't have 25 stars, flames, proper toad, scubes, different exp values, less op pomegranate like 8x exp rate, whatever clearly the two versions aren't so different thanks to these and more, just keep thinking that the eastern market is so different that it prevents the game to be better and if it doesn't cater to you, you are already not playing to begin with, are you not and not a single point I bring up will change this.
This discussion isn't fun to me anymore and I feel saturated see you in the next yearly thread regarding this though.
And before someone will BS on how I contradict myself when I keep talking about the how different/indifferent they are, I'll clarify, Gameplay wise all versions play the same, could this sustain the bleed? Surely but who knows-One thing is clear it can get boring and everyone agrees, Progression&Pacing&management are vastly different though.
you fuucking retard, nobody cares what you think eddie baddie
Maplestory is not dying, it is already deceased - KhainiWest - 2016-06-10
I think we need to just put to rest it was a bad example, even though the intention was to reflect that Taiwan doesn't USE twitch, and even though its a small amount, at the weakest time of the day, it stresses that even on an empty service it still has a following.
You guys ain't going to reach an agreement on it because it's all opinionated at this point, at least he explained himself since it did seem ludicrous initially
Maplestory is not dying, it is already deceased - Seanny - 2016-06-12
Honestly, you know what the issue is in my opinion. Why Maple seems to be suffering?
Social Networking.
Its changed since the days of Maple.
Way back in the days, forming a gaming community outside of a game was extremely difficult. What made Maple so great back then was forming guilds WAS your social network, along with the server itself. Players were motivated to grind with others and gear up because keeping up meant being able to play and participate with your friends.
The RNG, the grind, the frustration of hacking and terrible economies, it was all worth it for the social network Maple provided.
Today, things are different. We have discord servers full of people who've known each other forever, Reddit groups that gather up players before even starting a game, big skype groups. Guild Facebook pages with hundreds of members across several games.
Now, games with huge damage gaps just don't cut it anymore; MMOs where if you fall behind you become a burden to your established groups are now a complete turn-off. Why put up with that when everyone can just play a nice steam game or something and not worry about grinding tons of meaningless hours just to effectively spend time together?
Maple and games built around time sinking and stat-stacking just don't work anymore because, a decade ago, [B]the average MMO player put up with the grind to fit in with the game's community and play alongside them. Very few players care about a server's community like that anymore because they've built up their own.
But now, the average player is looking for a game that fits in with their OWN community, (reddit, discord,skype, other social platform). A game built around time sinks and damage gaps inhibit their ability to enjoy playing with each other, making them hard to enjoy. Its not worth it and they're becoming avoided around here.
I'd say gaming culture changed more than Maple did, and despite all the positive changes, maple refuses to fully evolve to adapt to this culture change, thats why its suffering.
My server's no longer my community, I have my own now.
Maplestory is not dying, it is already deceased - cronnoponno - 2016-06-12
KhainiWest Wrote:It isn't about the content, or lack there-of, it's about the direction it went that killed it for me
Definitely this right here is why I don't play Maplestory anymore. I've seen you post about how many of the quitters are just a different age and have moved on such, but I don't really think that's what most people miss in the old Maple.
There is definitely some nostalgia to be had, but when people say they prefer pre-big bang they are not talking about some nice feelings they had while playing, and they are not saying it was the epitome of perfect balance and good decisions on Nexon's part.
What was important however was the direction the game took, the different crowd it tried appease and the overall cannibalistic way they've ran their game in the name of making a bit more profit even if it neuters the game itself.
Pre-Big Bang Maple was FULL of flaws, no one is going to deny this. Balance issues were everywhere, a significant portion of classes just weren't worth picking. I'll also agree that the EXP rates were just far too brutal, but what we currently have in its current implementation is just ridiculous.
Pretty much everything Khaini West suggested on the first page of what he'd do if he were in charge is my exact sentiments. I'm tired of them thinking it's good game design to give every class every mobility tool like it's some convenient happymeal, and balancing the game to just make PvE a formality with every obstacle, mob, and area being traversed with a few simple button clicks, destroying the entire screen in seconds with billions upon billions of damage lines.
The supposed storyline change with Big Bang, which was one of the most praised revamps from the old Maplestory is also pretty bad in my opinion. Pre-Big Bang focused more on the lore of the world, making it an enriching yet optional experience for the player who wanted to seek it out, the story now is focused on Preset characters that have their own story that you don't make for yourself, there is no real direction with their storylines as they start off strong with an obnoxiously long tutorial that can be difficult to skip through if you don't care about it and each new character has more and more uninspired backstories to them. The plot can almost entirely be summed up with ''Hur dur, I'm the Black Mage'' and ''This is what we made up for this class!''. The overwhelming amount of classes to play as isn't really something I'd consider a good thing either, a good portion of them are unoriginal and save for the aesthetics of some of their animations and whatever NEW even MORE overpowered mobility skill Nexon decided to slap on them at the time their attacks follow the same basic principles of all the other characters.
Maplestory is not dying, it is already deceased - Pikamemnon - 2016-06-20
The question I wonder about is which Maplestory is the real Maplestory?
Official Maple:
Slightly better game
Worse community (not including Southperry) or to be precise, a reduced need for a "community"
Private Maple:
(arguably) Worse, more grindy game
Generally a friendly community overall
Its true that there can be exceptions within communities and that KMS managed to avoid the dilemma and also that people quit Maplestory and it is true that Nexon might have restrictions on what is is allowed to do for GMS but the answer might not be as easy as one might think.
If Nexon was not able to upgrade the game without shattering the community into a million pieces then it is possible that the updates were not worth it. At the very least they could have asked if anyone was still interested in the past game but they didn't, not even once. Which they are not obligated to but it still means that no good alternative options were provided. Reboot just shows that there might still be hope but that is about it. I have not yet become a part of the crowd that has lost faith in Nexon but I can see the path that others took to get there.
The torch has been passed to the next generation of Maple but it doesn't mean a whole lot if the atmosphere goes down the toilet in the process. As a long time player, I am not thrilled about either of the above choices.
The only reason any of this matters is because deep down, what is an MMO without its players?
Maplestory is not dying, it is already deceased - cronnoponno - 2016-06-20
Honestly the game probably became the way it did more from being pressured by investors to keep increasing their profits. It's a pretty vicious cycle and it affects all MMO games(and everything in general).
Maplestory is not dying, it is already deceased - Pikamemnon - 2016-06-22
cronnoponno Wrote:Honestly the game probably became the way it did more from being pressured by investors to keep increasing their profits. It's a pretty vicious cycle and it affects all MMO games(and everything in general).
Grind aside, I cannot call Maplestory a "bad" game exactly and I would guess that it is not totally unreasonable to expect a company to want as much cash money as possible. For example, was Nexon wrong to try to put Meso bags into Reboot? I dunno, maybe. Nexon's gotta pay the bills too.
I do not have a lot of memories of having long talks with strangers on boats or anything like that but everyone has their own slice of Maplestory that they like best and that is grand. Its up for debate on how much effort Nexon should use to try and win back lost customers or on how much they are willing to represent the past game for new players.
When I think of Maplestory, I think of a game that should be shared. Regardless of whether its old or new Maple. This is my vision of the game anyway.