KillerZero Wrote:I can't make a valid point so im going to attack the community because they are clearly to blame for all the misgiving that nexon does. Why hello uncle tom.

instead of listening to the valid complaints of the community and think if they have a valid point, you rather just point and blame them. Thats okay too

Lore Wrote:... any other mmorpg.

Kobe Wrote:You and i both know nexon doesn't give a damn about the feedback they receive. I mean hell, what ever happened to "A Better Maple"???

Words Wrote:You clearly haven't played that many mmorpgs then. I can name plenty that have reasonable progression that take time, effort and maybe luck but no to the extent of MS where it takes ridiculous amount of time and/or money to get anywhere.

Kobe Wrote:Every Maplestory player nowadays:

Hi, i like this game, but i pineappleing hate it because of how much money you need to spend on it, but no worries, let me just keep playing while burning my wallet. No problem at all!

Seriously, most of the people who are ranting about the game on this thread ARE STILL PLAYING IT. And i bet it isnt their first time ranting either. If you truly hate it because of how much money you need to spend to "git gud", then why dont you just drop it and spend your money on something more valuable like rent or some pomegranate?

SaptaZapta Wrote:It used to be a grind for levels. It's now a grind for damage. Conceptually there is very little difference.

Quote:Calling out the person on the fact they didn't read the thread and cherry picked their arguements.

Quote:First, Justin is not angry with you in particular at all, there's nothing in what he said in which you could draw this conclusion. Other than assuming of course, because he disagrees with you he is upset, because clearly your position is the correct one and he is just being a silly goose. He is not angry nor upset, and honestly as a question, what is up with EMS players always taking any form of disagreement as a personal attack on them.<Honest question, if you can answer. This isn't the first time its happen.

Quote:the person who started this discussion plays in GMS

Quote:and was referring to GMS, NOT ANY other version of maple.

Quote:Well that's nice, but once again your missing the point of the thread

Quote:The progress is reasonable and consistent, but of course you have to put effort in it

Quote:and when you reach the awkward phase where you're in between being able to solo end game bosses and not, you get some insight on how much EFFORT it takes

Quote:Once AGAIN, EMS IS NOT GMS, The whole, well I CAN DO IT IN EMS, SO DO IT IN GMS CRYBABIES, does not work here in any context because you have no clue what GMS players have to put up with. Not only do we have gold botters, we have elite botters, we have botters for everything< Literally. I am being literal here. There is a botter for everything in the fm.

Quote:Yes its doable, but saying you can do it completely with no money, your deluding yourself. Buying Nx of someone with mesos, is still buying NX. Even if you lessen the amount of money you personally spent, Does not negate the point that money has such a huge advantage over players...

Quote:...It's completely ridiculous and broken in GMS

Quote:Hi, my names KillerZero, and ive played this game for literally almost half my life. I started when i was in 6th grade, so i was 10, and i just literally hiatuses this year, I'm turning 22 in a few months. So i think, i think, maybe, just a little, I know how gms works, a bit better than someone who hasn't played it. Let me tell you, the progress is not reasonable nor consistent, it really comes down to what RNG wants to give you(usually bad) and what exploit is coming around which can negate everything you done for the month.

Lore Wrote:Effort is the thing that makes you stick to doing something for a time span longer than 3 minutes. If maple was easy to play, 100% of the people would play it those 5 days then quit it. This way somebody quits and somebody keeps playing for improvement. The same difficulty you used to have in leveling up (and thus being able to access end game content) is now reflected in gearing (and thus being able to access end game content). You have a shortcut with cash, yes. You can do it without cash, yes. It used to take 4 hours for any level past 170 and 16 hours for the last level as 1hkoing bishop, with exp card of course. Apply that to all the levels that go from 150 to 200 (to join HT and PB you preferably needed level 200) and you get a crap ton of time that was required to use, spending that time now at raising meso is the same concept. If you're afraid of gambling you go buy cubed (perfect or temporary) gear instead of buying cubes.


implying that a party of 6 people who can solo normal magnus cannot party up and match CRA, to get gradually stronger and eventually split the squad to have a better income for everyone and progress further. That's obviously out of mind because nobody ever did that. It takes too much effort, maybe, to ask people to party up. You are one of those who are now webbed in the mentality of solo play, while it's much easier if you take steps from party play to solo play and then repeat for stronger bosses as you get further.


edit: sorry for deleting the quote sources. However they are all in this thread.

Marksman Bryan Wrote:Skimmed through this thread and saw a lot of interesting points/issues/concerns.
If anyone cares enough to summarize the important things and send it to me (reply, pm, vm, whatever) I can send it to MLC for discussion. Changes are slowly being made there.

Lore Wrote:It's not just disagreement, as you see I reply to you, but mind you that even us "EMS players", as you are labeling me, can be right. It may be a chance but when I get treated in a disrespectful and arrogant way as it happened I have the right to point it out. The first one who thought that clearly his position was correct and I was being a silly goose is, magic of magics, him. I don't know and I don't care if all or none else of the EMS players who post here get mistreated.

Lore Wrote:True, but

False, there is no GMS specific. The conditions he blamed are the same as in any maple version. Only then somebody (guess who?) thought the discussion was inherent to GMS only, but it's not. Except some, albeit big, differences (which I listed, ex. gollux), the essence of the game and its mechanics are roughly the same.

MuscleWizard Wrote:It's basically turned into "Spend a thousand bucks on gear, if you want to actually play any of the top tier content" the game over the past few years.

And with how screwed the economy is, to get a foothold, new players basically have to spend money on NX to sell it, because you're not going to make plantain by actually hunting for anything within your power range starting out, because everything either requires cash to trade, or needs such a huge damage investment to manage the kill that you're pineappleed by default.

Lore Wrote:Sorry. I thought the point was finding the most relevant arguments and developing them.
My point in the thread, which you evidently missed "conveniently", is that

Effort is the thing that makes you stick to doing something for a time span longer than 3 minutes. If maple was easy to play, 100% of the people would play it those 5 days then quit it. This way somebody quits and somebody keeps playing for improvement. The same difficulty you used to have in leveling up (and thus being able to access end game content) is now reflected in gearing (and thus being able to access end game content). You have a shortcut with cash, yes. You can do it without cash, yes. It used to take 4 hours for any level past 170 and 16 hours for the last level as 1hkoing bishop, with exp card of course. Apply that to all the levels that go from 150 to 200 (to join HT and PB you preferably needed level 200) and you get a crap ton of time that was required to use, spending that time now at raising meso is the same concept. If you're afraid of gambling you go buy cubed (perfect or temporary) gear instead of buying cubes.

MuscleWizard Wrote:It's encouraging people to believe that non tangible goods have monetary value, and built around addictive gameplay in order to encourage people to throw their money at the grindwall.

Oh, your weapon's got good scrolled stats? That's awesome, have some potential, hell, lets throw some bonus potential in there too!

Oh! And in a few patches, we're going to release more, higher tier weapons, that people will need to spend even MORE money on to make as good as your old ones! By the way, it was determined that the set bonus for the previous tier of weapon was outperforming everything else in its class, so we nerfed it down a bit.

Oh! And everyone's hitting the absurdly overinflated damage cap too easily, so we're going to nerf everyone's damage, and leave the HP of everything where it was, because every single patch is all about extending the distance to the goal line, after all!

Lore Wrote:If you mean that I should have given more attention to your own post rather than the whole thread, I apologize. But now we're at it so

Lore Wrote:If you want I can also say that ems is harder to play than gms, because we don't have all the dmt events, nerfed magnus, gollux, cube drops etc. So if I say it's doable in ems, it's doable in gms supposedly the same way. This comes from a person (me) that actually plays the game, whereas you said you have already sold your things, how do you claim to know better than me how things work in a game that I have played pauselessly?

Lore Wrote:The progress is reasonable and consistent

Lore Wrote:but of course you have to put effort in it, if you want to be spoonfed your 2-2 progress then you did a very good job at quitting maplestory and likely any other mmorpg.

Lore Wrote:I never mentioned there is no gap between rich and poor but from there to saying that it's catastrophic

MuscleWizard Wrote:Guh. I am grump, sorry for ranting. It just sucks to have spent so much time on this game, and having it all be meaningless because the goal post keeps getting yanked out of the ground and planted further and further away damn near every patch.

MuscleWizard Wrote:Oh! And everyone's hitting the absurdly overinflated damage cap too easily, so we're going to nerf everyone's damage, and leave the HP of everything where it was, because every single patch is all about extending the distance to the goal line, after all!

Lore Wrote:and the game is going to die, that's being ridiculous. I infact agreed to the only opinion that was backed up with reason. Don't bother replying with another full-insult argumentless outrage.

Lore Wrote:implying that a party of 6 people who can solo normal magnus cannot party up and match CRA, to get gradually stronger and eventually split the squad to have a better income for everyone and progress further. That's obviously out of mind because nobody ever did that. It takes too much effort, maybe, to ask people to party up. You are one of those who are now webbed in the mentality of solo play, while it's much easier if you take steps from party play to solo play and then repeat for stronger bosses as you get further.

Lore Wrote:My bad for making examples and trying to be constructive.

Lore Wrote:I don't know how the situation in gms is

KillerZero Wrote:Yes its doable, but saying you can do it completely with no money, your deluding yourself. Buying Nx of someone with mesos, is still buying NX. Even if you lessen the amount of money you personally spent, Does not negate the point that money has such a huge advantage over players. It's completely ridiculous and broken in GMS.

Lore Wrote:I have been clear in agreeing with that. However

Lore Wrote:The theory that "money is a shortcut for time" I have been preaching for long and glad to see someone shares the same view.

KillerZero Wrote:I would like to agree with you, but there are a few things i'd like to point out. Yes your right that there are a multitude of ways to get MESOS in this game quite easily.

But PoetryIsFail and MuscleWizard do have a point. Once you reach the point where you can solo every Current Boss and future upcoming boss, there is money involved somewhere. Usually the case is that the person makes so much meso that they self sustain off that meso where they can just buy nx. Poetryisfail is more correct on his point that money is needed to defeat the top bosses and that there only available to those who are within the top .0001% because they can self sustain and buy nx of others.

Lore Wrote:With just two words, 5 letters in total, you completely defied the sense of my post and depicted my reply as offtopic. Congratz.

Lore Wrote:But then again it was you who moved the discussion to be about GMS only and you stick to thinking that way, so yeah pomegranate my post without thinking that you are being close minded. I could underline some of your "(in) GMS" that completely betray the original purpose of the topic and make you seem logical, whereas your post would have a good start to a new thread named "GMS's practically dead in terms of actual content". Truth is the topic is about MAPLESTORY.

Lore Wrote:So if I say it's doable in ems, it's doable in gms supposedly the same way.

hadriel Wrote:Why not we make a wishlist thread or two, then? One for ideas, one for issues?

Hadriel

¬Rob Wrote:Here's a wishlist post;
a] How about about a cap for %stats gained from potential/nebs? 200~250% max, rest after don't count?
-a2] To go with this, make a soft cap for every few levels. A level 80 should not have more %stat(and therefore is stronger) than a level 150.
b] Lowering the damage cap would be nice, slightly lower end game bosses' hp as well, but enough so they can't be f'ucking solo'd.
c] Put a cap on %drop gains.
d] Make more bosses require 2+ people to attempt, it was stupid to make quite a few fight-able solo.
e] Have craftsman/meister cubes sold for meso via Henesys potion NPC like other recent additions. Put a limit of 10 and 5 per day/week?
f] Wipe the meso currently in the game entirely.

I could think of a few others, but these are most important in my opinion. Most of those suggestions would hurt my characters too, of course. But it'd help the game, I think. s:
a] They'd lower the NEED to cube everything for 30% stat, while still encouraging it to maximize your character's damage.
b] Lower damage cap because jumping from 999,999 to 50m was f'ucking stupid and only encouraged NX(bought with real cash or illegally for meso/items).
c] Having 30000% drop gear helped ruin the economy enough.
d] We need party bossing back, while attempting to solo can be fun on occasion it should not be everyone's goal to do 100% of the time.
e] Cube via NPC for obvious reasons.
f] Same for meso.

I don't expect any of this to happen, but hey, it's a wishlist.

SaptaZapta Wrote:No one actually made a "they should do X" suggestion anywhere in the thread.

Main complaint seems to boil down to: while it may be possible to reach endgame without using NX now, the amount of work required is tantamount to making Maple into a full-time job, while the pay2win shortcut is absurdly quick.

cronnoponno Wrote:3. I disagree with % drop nerfs, as far as I am aware they work for the entire party on bosses as long as the person with a higher drop rate contriburtes some damage so everyone would be suffering from this.

4. Forcing a person requirement on bosses the player knows they can solo is not the proper way to do it in my opnion, it just makes it frustrating for the player to try to find 2 random guys who promise not to steal any of your crap, they should allow solo players to fight bosses but not have the potential to fight them(and remove EXP penalty on death) so they can realize that fighting them solo is probably not a good idea.

5. Disagree. I don't like taking away the power of the profession system, which cash does too much. I actually like grinding professions but when faced with the reality of how pointless 90% of it is I just can't bother, they should change this.

6. Disagree, with no actual fixes the meso will just get the way it gets again.

hadriel Wrote:The Easy, Normal and Chaos mode bosses are a way to address the boss-ability of differently funded characters, and I think it's still ok (I just woke up with an empty head).

Grey Wrote:It's very poorly executed, at least with the newer boses. It does very little to alleviate the gap that exists between the really easy bosses and the really hard bosses. In fact, the gap between Normal and Chaos is so huge, they could have several intermediate difficulty levels. I would say, if a player can solo one level, they should have, at least, a decent chance against the boss on the next difficulty up with a full party of 6, all of whom can solo, being able to do at least 50% of the boss's HP with little to no practice. Take CRA, for example. A party of people who can just barely solo Normal RA would barely make a dent in Chaos RA.

hadriel Wrote:Yeah I can see what you mean. It can't just be simply a fat punchbag... and yeah no I don't think the tier gaps should be that big. In that sense, do you think Gollux difficulty tiers are ok?

Hadriel