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+--- Thread: [1.2.178] Night Walker (/showthread.php?tid=5398)
[1.2.178] Night Walker - WayOfTime - 2008-11-20
Even though they added the video, WindBreaker still seams to be the best of the four 0.0
[1.2.178] Night Walker - Alloy - 2008-11-20
Skylicious Wrote:They can still do it. And I'd be really impressed to see those skills useful at bosses. (excluding summons)
For bosses, they still have triple throw, though.
[1.2.178] Night Walker - byakugan - 2008-11-21
And the rankings are:
#1 Windbreaker (I have to admit it)
#2 Soul Master (My favorite)
#3 Flame mage and Striker (I like both but I can't decide which one is better)
#4 Nightwalker (Vampire looks slow for such a fast class and poison sting dmg needs to be raised a lot)
[1.2.178] Night Walker - Stereo - 2008-11-21
Lol, I so called a nerf to 40% for Vampire.
And what's the dynamic on Sudden Attack? You go into dark sight, and then the first attack you use takes you out and does 130% of normal damage? How fast is Dark Sight anyway? I know it's pretty quick.
[1.2.178] Night Walker - Skylicious - 2008-11-21
Alloy Wrote:For bosses, they still have triple throw, though.
Exactly, making this class utterly useless and unattractive. And LOL@nerfs. Even lamer.
[1.2.178] Night Walker - Shippo the Fox - 2008-11-21
So the thieves have the worst Knight of Cygnus counter-part.....
I blame the Night Lords. *shifty eyes*
[1.2.178] Night Walker - Takebacker - 2008-11-21
*Tries to defend NLs*.
Gunslingers were thought to be the weakest pirate. NLs were thought to be the one of the worst 4th jobs.
I think we're seeing the tip of the iceberg.
[1.2.178] Night Walker - FelixTM - 2008-11-21
Takebacker Wrote:*Tries to defend NLs*.
Gunslingers were thought to be the weakest pirate. NLs were thought to be the one of the worst 4th jobs.
I think we're seeing the tip of the iceberg.
NLs do have a pretty bad 4th job, in terms of added versatility, fresh attacking skills, etc. No one in their right mind thought that they were gonna be weak. Just because a job is viewed as "bad" doesn't mean the character is going to be weak or simply suck.
It's just like why Dark Knight's were such a letdown to everyone. Their 4th job is extremely boring because it's really only a buffer to their existing skills (similar to NLs'). They're stuck with the same attacks and the same play style, basically. People love jobs that add new attacks and sexy buffs. That said, though, Dark Knights are still a great class and can be very powerful.
Of course this Cygnus class is still going to be great...because it's just like the Hermits/NLs. But the job itself is boring and crappy because it does very little to change how the class is played. That's the point being made here.
[1.2.178] Night Walker - Stereo - 2008-11-21
Why is a dark-sight enabled damage boost good enough for the Windbreakers but not for the Night Walker? It's the same skill, neither of them had it before :x Dark Sight was just a sneaking around thing, not a training tool.
And really if you think a 2nd job mobbing attack wouldn't change how Assassins play.. lol. Just lol.
[1.2.178] Night Walker - Takebacker - 2008-11-21
FelixTM Wrote:NLs do have a pretty bad 4th job, in terms of added versatility, fresh attacking skills, etc. No one in their right mind thought that they were gonna be weak. Just because a job is viewed as "bad" doesn't mean the character is going to be weak or simply suck.
It's just like why Dark Knight's were such a letdown to everyone. Their 4th job is extremely boring because it's really only a buffer to their existing skills (similar to NLs'). They're stuck with the same attacks and the same play style, basically. People love jobs that add new attacks and sexy buffs. That said, though, Dark Knights are still a great class and can be very powerful.
Of course this Cygnus class is still going to be great...because it's just like the Hermits/NLs. But the job itself is boring and crappy because it does very little to change how the class is played. That's the point being made here.
You're not getting my point though. Back when 4th job came out everyone saw their skills and immediately said "oh look they got 1.5 more stars per attack doing the SAME AMOUNT OF DAMAGE per star! Nothing special, hey everyone look at bowmasters and heroes some moar!"
NLs weren't thought to be that strong (JUST LIKE WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW, ZOMG!) but it was only until people realized that SE + TT = secks that people thought NLs were strong. NLs are still not strong alone, but with other classes they're much stronger.
Anyway, sudden strike + SE + apples + TT + level 120 character = secks.
[1.2.178] Night Walker - FelixTM - 2008-11-21
Takebacker Wrote:You're not getting my point though. Back when 4th job came out everyone saw their skills and immediately said "oh look they got 1.5 more stars per attack doing the SAME AMOUNT OF DAMAGE per star! Nothing special, hey everyone look at bowmasters and heroes some moar!"
NLs weren't thought to be that strong (JUST LIKE WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW, ZOMG!) but it was only until people realized that SE + TT = secks that people thought NLs were strong. NLs are still not strong alone, but with other classes they're much stronger.
Anyway, sudden strike + SE + apples + TT + level 120 character = secks.
I'm getting your point just fine.
I really want to see these idiots that thought NLs weren't going to be strong. Honestly. I know people can be stupid, but I don't remember people being THAT naive before 4th job came out. Hermits were already one of the most dominant, nearly-untouchable classes before. Anyone with a brain would have been able to realize a buffer to them would only make them god-tier. NLs are strong by themselves, and they're incredible when buffed. The main crap about NLs before 4th came out was a bunch of BAWWWing and BMs/Heroes throwing stupid crap about finally being able to be on the same level of NLs ("I'm not gonna give you SE cause I'm butthurt that Sins have KSed me LOL"). Where the heck were the people that truly thought NLs were going to be weak? Trolling really doesn't count...
Unless I'm missing something in this thread, who here is upset with the Nightwalker job because they think it isn't going to be strong? The vibes I've been getting from this thread's posts are:
A) Unhappy they chose the Assassin class as the base for this Cygnus, rather than Bandit
B) Unhappy that, because they are like Sins, L7/TT is going to end up being the focus of this job
C) Unhappy this Cygnus class isn't as appealing/exciting as the others
D) Unhappy that Poison Sling, well, sucks
Who here has been unhappy thinking they are going to be weak? Heck, most of the posts on the first couple pages only acknowledge the fact that Assassins are so strong that they are hard to top.
[1.2.178] Night Walker - Takebacker - 2008-11-21
FelixTM Wrote:I'm getting your point just fine.
I really want to see these idiots that thought NLs weren't going to be strong. Honestly. I know people can be stupid, but I don't remember people being THAT naive before 4th job came out. Hermits were already one of the most dominant, nearly-untouchable classes before. Anyone with a brain would have been able to realize a buffer to them would only make them god-tier. NLs are strong by themselves, and they're incredible when buffed. The main crap about NLs before 4th came out was a bunch of BAWWWing and BMs/Heroes throwing stupid crap about finally being able to be on the same level of NLs ("I'm not gonna give you SE cause I'm butthurt that Sins have KSed me LOL"). Where the heck were the people that truly thought NLs were going to be weak? Trolling really doesn't count...
Unless I'm missing something in this thread, who here is upset with the Nightwalker job because they think it isn't going to be strong? The vibes I've been getting from this thread's posts are:
A) Unhappy they chose the Assassin class as the base for this Cygnus, rather than Bandit
B) Unhappy that, because they are like Sins, L7/TT is going to end up being the focus of this job
C) Unhappy this Cygnus class isn't as appealing/exciting as the others
D) Unhappy that Poison Sling, well, sucks
Who here has been unhappy thinking they are going to be weak? Heck, most of the posts on the first couple pages only acknowledge the fact that Assassins are so strong that they are hard to top.
I dunno about that...i mean hermits weren't "overpopulated" because of the damage, they're overpopulated because speed is addicting and hermits have plenty of it (and by plenty, i mean fastest traveling speed of anything in the game). If anything in the pre-4th job days (case and point would be EMS and below i suppose) the CBs, DKs, and crusaders were thought to be the strongest. Mages were meh, WKs were underestimated (as are pallys for that matter), and archers were in the middle as well.
FelixTM Wrote:Where the heck were the people that truly thought NLs were going to be weak?
Honestly, i remember everyone saying that they were weak compared to other fourth job increases. I remember senyain saying something about NL increase compared to other jobs a few months ago as well. NL increase on average was a 175% increase in overall power where every other job was 200% minimum or something like that. I'm fuzzy on the numbers, but NLs didn't get that much more powerful. Even to me, NLs weren't going to look that strong when the attack is the exact same thing (with 1 and a half more stars) and they didn't get much else. Obviously i'm not even noting their second highest avoidability rate in the game, the star saving, and the KB skill, all of which cover up a LOT of a hermits weaknesses so the job is FAR from worthless. (same could be said for the DrK class i suppose)
Anyway, in my opinion i'm not disappointed per se but i expected something...different. Every other cygnus class brought something completely new to the table for the classes. Warriors got mobility and much larger range with (arguably) broken damage, archers got a godly transformation skill and dark sight, pirates got the still underrated thunder element and range, and mages got element neutrality. What did thieves get? The already available poison element and a mob skill that does 160% total damage while draining at the same time? Not exactly thrilling compared to the others...
[1.2.178] Night Walker - Skylicious - 2008-11-22
Takebacker Wrote:Anyway, in my opinion i'm not disappointed per se but i expected something...different. Every other cygnus class brought something completely new to the table for the classes. Warriors got mobility and much larger range with (arguably) broken damage, archers got a godly transformation skill and dark sight, pirates got the still underrated thunder element and range, and mages got element neutrality. What did thieves get? The already available poison element and a mob skill that does 160% total damage while draining at the same time? Not exactly thrilling compared to the others...My thoughts exactly.
This is the way I'd prefer to look at it:
Bandit. Seriously, all theses new skills would work so much better on a bandit. Vampire is so melee'ish and so is Poison sling.
[1.2.178] Night Walker - FelixTM - 2008-11-22
Skylicious Wrote:My thoughts exactly.
This is the way I'd prefer to look at it:
Bandit. Seriously, all theses new skills would work so much better on a bandit. Vampire is so melee'ish and so is Poison sling.
100% agreed.
I would have found this class FAR more interesting if they had modeled it after the Bandit class.
[1.2.178] Night Walker - KatanaKiwi - 2008-11-22
am i the only one that notices how he doesnt get hit once? 17misses 0deals
im a warrior so i dont know for sure but i think their avoid formulla is insane..
[1.2.178] Night Walker - Stereo - 2008-11-22
Takebacker Wrote:Every other cygnus class brought something completely new to the table for the classes. Warriors got mobility and much larger range with (arguably) broken damage, archers got a godly transformation skill and dark sight, pirates got the still underrated thunder element and range, and mages got element neutrality. What did thieves get? The already available poison element and a mob skill that does 160% total damage while draining at the same time? Not exactly thrilling compared to the others...
With Rush and good speed gear, warriors already had mobility and good range (esp. Fury/Brandish). The archer transformation skill is like Haste with a cooldown. I don't know how the Brawler's improvements compare cause I haven't played one, and I can't even find a thread that describes the Mage class in its current state.
They can't improve a Thief's speed, they can't improve their range, what's left? Oh, they get an element (poison) just like the Brawler did, they get a godly mob skill (thanks to crit it's 360%, not 160%...), and they can heal themself with it (Drain does 160-260%, this does 160%-3360% depending on targets and crits) I'd say that pretty much covers all the possibilities, unless they just want to break every class completely and give them insanely high damage.
[1.2.178] Night Walker - Chompy - 2008-11-22
Takebacker Wrote:I dunno about that...i mean hermits weren't "overpopulated" because of the damage, they're overpopulated because speed is addicting and hermits have plenty of it (and by plenty, i mean fastest traveling speed of anything in the game). If anything in the pre-4th job days (case and point would be EMS and below i suppose) the CBs, DKs, and crusaders were thought to be the strongest. Mages were meh, WKs were underestimated (as are pallys for that matter), and archers were in the middle as well.
Honestly, i remember everyone saying that they were weak compared to other fourth job increases. I remember senyain saying something about NL increase compared to other jobs a few months ago as well. NL increase on average was a 175% increase in overall power where every other job was 200% minimum or something like that. I'm fuzzy on the numbers, but NLs didn't get that much more powerful. Even to me, NLs weren't going to look that strong when the attack is the exact same thing (with 1 and a half more stars) and they didn't get much else. Obviously i'm not even noting their second highest avoidability rate in the game, the star saving, and the KB skill, all of which cover up a LOT of a hermits weaknesses so the job is FAR from worthless. (same could be said for the DrK class i suppose)
Anyway, in my opinion i'm not disappointed per se but i expected something...different. Every other cygnus class brought something completely new to the table for the classes. Warriors got mobility and much larger range with (arguably) broken damage, archers got a godly transformation skill and dark sight, pirates got the still underrated thunder element and range, and mages got element neutrality. What did thieves get? The already available poison element and a mob skill that does 160% total damage while draining at the same time? Not exactly thrilling compared to the others...
Really I think we have been underestimating Beserk...
Everytime i see that 200% extra I think potential broken-ness.
[1.2.178] Night Walker - Takebacker - 2008-11-22
Stereo Wrote:With Rush and good speed gear, warriors already had mobility and good range (esp. Fury/Brandish). The archer transformation skill is like Haste with a cooldown. I don't know how the Brawler's improvements compare cause I haven't played one, and I can't even find a thread that describes the Mage class in its current state.
They can't improve a Thief's speed, they can't improve their range, what's left? Oh, they get an element (poison) just like the Brawler did, they get a godly mob skill (thanks to crit it's 360%, not 160%...), and they can heal themself with it (Drain does 160-260%, this does 160%-3360% depending on targets and crits) I'd say that pretty much covers all the possibilities, unless they just want to break every class completely and give them insanely high damage.
Yeah pretty good points. Thing is though, rush is no where near as useful (speed wise obviously. There's nothing more useful than making a 10 monster mob the way it does
) compared to soul jump (i don't remember the name atm, just woke up) UNLESS it has a delay like recoil shot does for gunslingers. Don't soul warriors have rush anyway? I don't remember. :/For windbreakers: I wasn't exactly talking about the speed. I was referring to the damage. xD Dark sight is always welcome for them as well.
For mages: I never really touched on them, but still element neutrality (which for some reason when looking at the skills i can't find the skill for...someone must have mentioned it and i thought it was real >______>) is still godly.
160% base damage is still fairly weak. With crit since it's 4 separate hits the chance of it critting on all of those hits is pretty low compared to L7 which only has to crit twice (because SP automatically crits the other two hits). Also, vampire looks fairly slow to me. They're not spamming it in the video so i can't really tell though. Plus, there's no indication on whether or not vampire goes off your damage range or a special formula, which will make them suck even more because their damage ranges are the lowest in the game iirc. 40% of 1000 is still 400, and i don't think NLs hit 1000 base on their range until late third job. As far as 1v1 goes, it's no stronger than an early fourth job NL as far as i see. O_o If sudden strike is used for every TT attack, it'd be 195% per star but would probably lower it's attacks per minute down to 8x instead of close to 100.
It seems that they covered one of their major weaknesses, but created another even worse one. By giving them mobbing advantages they in turn destroyed their bossing capabilities by taking away shadow stars. Can you imagine a night walker trying to fight a major boss? They would have to carry 20-25 sets like in the old days or MORE because they're using TT instead of L7 which burns at least 200 stars more per minute. (don't remember the exact number)
I wanted to try and defend NLs when i first posted...but i've started doing the exact opposite. >_> I don't know how all those things will actually work out when they're released...
Chompy Wrote:Really I think we have been underestimating Beserk...
Everytime i see that 200% extra I think potential broken-ness.
Especially with fury. ~20k to 6 monsters at it's speed is absolute secks.
[1.2.178] Night Walker - Worthyness - 2008-11-22
Is it just me, or did KMS make these classes out of the most popular weapons (with the exception of the mage of course). Bow- widbreaker, claw- Nightwalker, sword- soulmaster
0-o
[1.2.178] Night Walker - Russt - 2008-11-22
They're still in testing.
I wouldn't be too hopeful, but they could surprise us by adding more skills.