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+--- Thread: Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting (/showthread.php?tid=50089)
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - KhainiWest - 2011-12-29
Exidous Wrote:You don't necessarily need a drivers license to register to vote - to be eligible. You need proof of residency, generally. An in state drivers license with your address does suffice in most states, but that hardly makes it the only way. You still don't have a point that justifies your argument.
Really, bringing your New York drivers license to the county clerk in Wisconsin to register to vote didn't make sense in the first place. Just because you can drive in one state doesn't mean you can vote in another.
...Seriously this is so frustrating because you aren't able to comprehend what I'm saying. I don't know what the problem is but now I have time to elaborate.
Problem: Students have to pay in order to vote.
Reason: In order to vote for example, in wisconsin, as it also has strict photo ID laws, which NY is now attempting to pass as well (Note this was the reason of the comparison); you have to pay a fee for a state ID. You are not a wisconsin resident unless you claim Domicile there, which would mean taking your parents residence and previous drivers license off the record of assessments and taxation. So you have to pay for the license at the state you are now a resident in order to f`ucking drive, and purchase your previously license and go through the whole process all over again when you get home.
I'll also graph it out for you:
Wisconsin- In order to vote you need to be eligible to vote in winsconsin. To gain such privilege you have to;
A) Become a resident, which means as a student remove your previous domicile and establish one, in wisconsin and remove your previous drivers license to forfeit your state residency.
B) Get a wisconsin drivers license, which if you can't tell not only costs you money in winsconsin but your previous state when returning home. We are talking about students if you don't recall.
New york- This state is following the same strict photo ID laws, hence the article, which would also be discriminatory towards students. I have not stated anywhere a direct comparison between both states besides the laws being enforced. Clarified?
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - Exidous - 2011-12-29
I've never heard of people having to renounce or invalidate past drivers licenses to claim residency at college. You just can't claim residency in more than one place, it's not like a drivers license from another state is invalid as soon as you move.
If you are going to college in this election year yes, you might have to do a minuscule amount of legwork (but no payment) at the DMV for a free ID card, but once you have your housing info that won't be a problem. Point B is false based on what I already linked, so where is the necessary payment?
I see why you were resisting the point before, but I still say your concerns here are unfounded, and it's still not a poll tax.
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - KhainiWest - 2011-12-29
Exidous Wrote:I've never heard of people having to renounce or invalidate past drivers licenses to claim residency at college. You just can't claim residency in more than one place, it's not like a drivers license from another state is invalid as soon as you move.
If you are going to college in this election year yes, you might have to do a minuscule amount of legwork (but no payment) at the DMV for a free ID card, but once you have your housing info that won't be a problem. Point B is false based on what I already linked, so where is the necessary payment?
I see why you were resisting the point before, but I still say your concerns here are unfounded, and it's still not a poll tax.
I give up, the facts are in front of your face that you refuse to acknowledge, in fact you can't even understand what I'm saying. Therefore you are thick. Which invalidates your entire credible opinion on anything that is ya know, an adult responsibility.
BUT TO FURTHER ELABORATE.
What the pineapple does college registration have to do with anything. When you typically register for college you don't claim residency, you get a student ID. Which if you read is no THE ENTIRE PROBLEM. It doesn't count as a credible identification allowing them to vote.
So then you have to get credible information, which you have even said is a state ID. Well in order to be eligible for a free state license, which is in your own goddam link you have to be eligible to vote in wisconsin. How are you eligible to vote in any state?! YOU GET RESIDENCY. What's so hard?
You're wrong, fu`cking accept it.
Edit:
Will someone verify if I'm being clear, is my point there!?
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - SaptaZapta - 2011-12-29
Exidous Wrote:I've never heard of people having to renounce or invalidate past drivers licenses to claim residency at college. You just can't claim residency in more than one place, it's not like a drivers license from another state is invalid as soon as you move.
If you are going to college in this election year yes, you might have to do a minuscule amount of legwork (but no payment) at the DMV for a free ID card, but once you have your housing info that won't be a problem. Point B is false based on what I already linked, so where is the necessary payment?
I see why you were resisting the point before, but I still say your concerns here are unfounded, and it's still not a poll tax.
Wait, so you're saying one can hold a valid-for-voting ID in two states at the same time? So how does this prevent voter fraud?
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - KhainiWest - 2011-12-29
Sapta I trust your opinion, am I like delusional I mean you know what I'm saying right?! I'm beginning to doubt myself lol
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - Exidous - 2011-12-29
SaptaZapta Wrote:Wait, so you're saying one can hold a valid-for-voting ID in two states at the same time? So how does this prevent voter fraud?Part of why were were talking past each other for a while there was because there are two relevant phases we were arguing about simultaneously.
1) Voter Registration
2) Actually voting
The OP article (the part I quoted anyway) is talking about #2 - what ID you need to have with you when you go to vote. In order to prove that you are you during #1, depending on the state you could well use an out of state drivers license, or even a student ID and such. The main part of registering is proving residency, which will require something in addition to your out of state drivers license anyway. Under the Wisconsin law at least, for #2, out of state IDs will no longer qualify - if you want to #2 there, you have to get an in state ID card, presumably when you #1.
The way the Wisconsin law prevents voter fraud - the two state voting for example - is by not issuing the free voter ID cards to non-state residents.
And yes, poop is an appropriate metaphor for voting.
Quote:What the pineapple does college registration have to do with anything. When you typically register for college you don't claim residency, you get a student ID. Which if you read is no THE ENTIRE PROBLEM. It doesn't count as a credible identification allowing them to vote.Right, these laws effectively require an extra step for students who want to vote in the state they go to college to (if its not their home state). They have to go to the DMV (or something), provide proof that they are now residents of the state, and be issued a free state ID for voting. This need not have anything to do with drivers licenses.
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - KhainiWest - 2011-12-30
Exidous Wrote:Part of why were were talking past each other for a while there was because there are two relevant phases we were arguing about simultaneously.
1) Voter Registration
2) Actually voting
The OP article (the part I quoted anyway) is talking about #2 - what ID you need to have with you when you go to vote. In order to prove that you are you during #1, depending on the state you could well use an out of state drivers license, or even a student ID and such. The main part of registering is proving residency, which will require something in addition to your out of state drivers license anyway. Under the Wisconsin law at least, for #2, out of state IDs will no longer qualify - if you want to #2 there, you have to get an in state ID card, presumably when you #1.
The way the Wisconsin law prevents voter fraud - the two state voting for example - is by not issuing the free voter ID cards to non-state residents.
And yes, poop is an appropriate metaphor for voting.
Right, these laws effectively require an extra step for students who want to vote in the state they go to college to (if its not their home state). They have to go to the DMV (or something), provide proof that they are now residents of the state, and be issued a free state ID for voting. This need not have anything to do with drivers licenses.
The point that you're missing is to prove they are a state resident is the fact they have to get a drivers license in the state or prove their domicile is in that state. So in essence they are paying for that privilege to vote in said state. Therefore they are indirectly paying the state in order to vote in the election which is everyones point. This doesn't make us whatever negative opinion you said about us previously, I've honestly forgot.
To vote would mean to do the action, which would mean a prerequisite of registration is necessary which costs money therefore costs the voter money in order to vote.
WHAT ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT ANYMORE
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you Wrote:"Seven states have already passed strict laws requiring a government-issued ID (like a drivers license or a passport) to vote, which many students dont have, and 27 others are considering such measures. Many of those laws have been interpreted as prohibiting out-of-state drivers licenses from being used for voting."
So, are any of you actually opposed to this for a coherent reason?
Other than being pro voter fraud that helps your candidate of choice, of course.
How about that you're paying for something that you are entitled as an American to voice? And I have yet to see any argument to contradict this otherwise. So before you attempt to talk down to people perhaps you should understand the actual bill, which you do not.
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - Moonlapse - 2011-12-30
EDIT: Ignore this post.
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - Sarah - 2011-12-30
Moonlapse Wrote:Good grief, their is no such thing as civil debate in the current events section. I agree that that this is stupid, but I don't think the article gives enough evidence that this is a right wing conspiracy to limit democratic voters. From what I have read conservative voters are really concerned about voter fraud.Except that they're not. The republicans have been targeting any demographic that is likely to vote for Obama over the last year and trying to revoke their right to vote. Students and people getting out of prison, specifically (hate to say this but there are a lot of black people in prison and black people are more likely to vote for Obama solely because of brotha-hood.)
But really, no matter how you see it, there's only one reason to be doing this right now, before an important election. If they're really that concerned about any of these things and have good valid reasons to want the rules changed, they should wait until after the election when people have four years to adjust to the new rules.
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - Exidous - 2011-12-30
KhainiWest Wrote:The point that you're missing is to prove they are a state resident is the fact they have to get a drivers license in the state or prove their domicile is in that state.
KhainiWest Wrote:or prove their domicile is in that state.
KhainiWest Wrote:or
So a drivers license isn't required, and no one is required to spend money to vote.
Sarah Wrote:But really, no matter how you see it, there's only one reason to be doing this right now, before an important election. If they're really that concerned about any of these things and have good valid reasons to want the rules changed, they should wait until after the election when people have four years to adjust to the new rules.Yeah, it's like wanting to see what's in a bill before its passed. The nerve of some people.
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - Sarah - 2011-12-30
Exidous Wrote:Yeah, it's like wanting to see what's in a bill before its passed. The nerve of some people.I have no idea what how this response relates in any way to what you quoted.
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - Exidous - 2011-12-30
Hypothetically, people are concerned about an election being marred by voter fraud. Your solution is for them to change the law but not let it affect the upcoming election, so it can be as fraudulent as it would be in the status quo. That's retarded.
I was making a crack about the healthcare bill, House speaker at the time Pelosi infamously said "you have to pass the bill to see what's in it," because I see it being metaphorically parallel to your approach to preventing voter fraud.
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - Sarah - 2011-12-30
Except no one is legitimately concerned about voter fraud, they're concerned about Barack Obama getting a second term. Voter fraud has been a non-issue for 235 years and it's not one now, either.
I've read all of your posts and you've provided no real evidence that this is a serious issue or reason to be concerned and that's because there isn't any. Even if there were voter fraud, it would be so miniscule in scale that it would effect nothing. People don't like to vote; how many people exactly do you expect are going to go out of their way to cheat the system to vote TWICE OR THREE TIMES. I think Kalovale nailed it earlier with his hypothetical that proved how ridiculous that notion is. Fraudulent voters, supposing they exist, aren't changing anything.
Students who are likely to vote democratic, however, are a real threat to the republicans, and that's exactly why this is coming up now.
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - Sarah - 2011-12-30
Nice double post, southperry.
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - Alloy - 2011-12-30
Sarah Wrote:Except no one is legitimately concerned about voter fraud, they're concerned about Barack Obama getting a second term. Voter fraud has been a non-issue for 235 years and it's not one now, either.
Ironically, this produces more voter fraud than it stops. Welcome to AMERICA! Land of "freedom".
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - KhainiWest - 2011-12-30
Exidous Wrote:So a drivers license isn't required, and no one is required to spend money to vote.
Yeah, it's like wanting to see what's in a bill before its passed. The nerve of some people.
....You're so stupid. No matter what you'll have to get a drivers license. Seriously kid, stop. Like you're so naive and oblivious it's killing me. I don't know how you function in real life because this is downright pathetic how you are so desperately looking for any loophole that you can imagine to save face.
IN ORDER TO GET DOMICILED IN ONE STATE YOU MUST REMOVE YOUR PREVIOUS DRIVERS LICENSE/ADDRESS. THIS IS CONCERNING OUT OF STATE STUDENTS. THAT MEANS THEY WILL NOT LIVE IN STATES WITH STRICT ID'S. IF YOU COMPLETELY FORFEIT YOUR DRIVERS LICENSE YOU CAN'T DRIVE ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES. SO IF YOU CHOOSE TO FORFEIT THAT PRIVILEGE. EVEN IF YOU CHOOSE NOT TO PAY FOR A DRIVERS LICENSE IN WISCONSIN, YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR THE ONE YOU JUST FORFEITED IN YOUR PREVIOUS STATE. You'll also be dependent on other students to drive you around, which I'm sure every f`ucking college student wants.
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What you think that or saved your ass or something? Fking moron.
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Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - Rick - 2011-12-30
Oh my god. Shut up. You've both said your piece and it's just gonna turn in to a flame war. Continue it in private if you must but not here.
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - CrazyForDex - 2011-12-30
I don't really see how the whole idea of this is constitutional or rational. Considering Republicans are trying to restrict US citizen's right to vote, a right which the constitution guarantees us at the age of 18, I don't understand how some of these insane bills even get passed. Also since there is little to no voter fraud, I really cannot fathom how people are drinking the Republican kool-aid and thinking this is a good idea.
God dam people. We should just go back to segregated schools with morning prayer where only God-fearing white-property-owning-males can vote. Just like the good old days, right?
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - WillDaSnail - 2011-12-30
So I was out for two days and I see this topic shift from Republicans attempting to change laws to exclude a certain group of people from voting --> ID cards. Wat.
Sarah Wrote:Except no one is legitimately concerned about voter fraud, they're concerned about Barack Obama getting a second term. Voter fraud has been a non-issue for 235 years and it's not one now, either.
I've read all of your posts and you've provided no real evidence that this is a serious issue or reason to be concerned and that's because there isn't any. Even if there were voter fraud, it would be so miniscule in scale that it would effect nothing. People don't like to vote; how many people exactly do you expect are going to go out of their way to cheat the system to vote TWICE OR THREE TIMES. I think Kalovale nailed it earlier with his hypothetical that proved how ridiculous that notion is. Fraudulent voters, supposing they exist, aren't changing anything.
Students who are likely to vote democratic, however, are a real threat to the republicans, and that's exactly why this is coming up now.
This
Restricting democracy: Republicans trying to prevent college-age students from voting - FrozNlite - 2011-12-31
Sarah Wrote:Students who are likely to vote democratic, however, are a real threat to the republicans, and that's exactly why this is coming up now.
Just to further emphasis Will's bolding of this to-the-point comment: it's not students who are more likely to vote democratic, it's students vote democratic. Plain fact of the matter is that in 2008, the nation saw one of the largest youth voter turnouts in history, with 75% of the voting populace between the ages of 18-24 voting for Barack Obama.
F'ucking duh this is simply targeting a minority group for the sake of disenfranchising them.