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+---- Thread: Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) (/showthread.php?tid=47362)
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2011-09-30
Flonne Wrote:We were just trying to help in case you forgot something, there is no reason to be a gigantic ass about absolutely everything.
All that pent up anger is going to give you an aneurysm or something...
It clearly says in the OP what's not included.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - EternalRain - 2011-10-10
From what I've seen and heard, it seems the +damage%/DoT effect on Mist Eruption is +% damage, not multiplicative. (i.e. 2 DoTs wouldn't be 1.35 * 1.35 = 1.8225x, rather 1.35 + 1.35 = 1.70x) This effect becomes far more noticable with 5 or 6 DoTs chained.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - valhala556 - 2011-10-10
EternalRain Wrote:From what I've seen and heard, it seems the +damage%/DoT effect on Mist Eruption is +% damage, not multiplicative. (i.e. 2 DoTs wouldn't be 1.35 * 1.35 = 1.8225x, rather 1.35 + 1.35 = 1.70x) This effect becomes far more noticable with 5 or 6 DoTs chained.
The skill stats it doesnt start working till the 2nd Dot and stops after the 5th aplicatent. now idk if that means 2~6 DoT affect the damage or 2~5. but 0 and 1 DoT should yeild the same damage.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Mibs - 2011-10-10
Wow, poor Evans. I tried converting from Evan to I/L or F/P but I just like the class too much, so I'll stick with it.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - EternalRain - 2011-10-10
valhala556 Wrote:The skill stats it doesnt start working till the 2nd Dot and stops after the 5th aplicatent. now idk if that means 2~6 DoT affect the damage or 2~5. but 0 and 1 DoT should yeild the same damage.
The same principle applies. Instead of multiplicative damage, it's additive, which is quite a bit less.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2011-10-11
I'll recalculate the values sometime tomorrow. It shouldn't be too significantly noteworthy on the effective DPS of a Fire/Poison mage since they still so easily reach the damage cap with Mist Eruption, but the overinflated %/s DPS where a damage cap doesn't exist will be affected more significantly.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - valhala556 - 2011-10-11
JoeTang Wrote:I'll recalculate the values sometime tomorrow. It shouldn't be too significantly noteworthy on the effective DPS of a Fire/Poison mage since they still so easily reach the damage cap with Mist Eruption, but the overinflated %/s DPS where a damage cap doesn't exist will be affected more significantly.
But this doesn't even matter.
Still sadden though, thought I could hit the damage cap with 11k range T_T.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - ElderTree - 2011-10-12
Joe, either Fire/Poison Arch Mages are more balanced that we thought, or I'm doing something wrong. Assuming your calculations for I/L are correct, my calculations are showing:
- I/L > F/P by 3.9% on 0% PDR
- I/L > F/P by 0.9% on 10% PDR (equal)
- F/P > I/L by 11.7% on 40% PDR
- F/P > I/L by 36.7% on 70% PDR (opposed to 165.3% better as stated in the first post)
Let me know if you spot something wrong. Here's how I came up with these numbers.
Basic Idea: Skills are divided up into 4 categories: DoT (PB/PM/FD/BB/Meteor), Specials (ME), Summons (Ifrit), and Main Attacks (Pa). DoT skills are those that are cast as rarely as possible to take as much advantage of the DoT as possible. Specials are high-powered skills with cooldowns that are used as often as possible. Summons are kept out at all times. Finally, the Main Attack is the skill that gets spammed to fill the rest of the remaining time.
Terminology:
- Skill % - The direct damage done by casting a skill. (% * Total_Multiplier * PDR_Multiplier)
- DoT % - Total damage from DoT over the entire duration. (DoT * Duration * 0.875) -- Not sure where the 0.875 comes from, but you seem to use it. (I believe it has something to do with the fact that DoT is applied a little less than once per sec?)
- "Period" - The length of time between casting a certain skill. This is either: a) The duration of the DoT/summon, or b) The cooldown.
- "Cycles" - Number of times the skill's Period will be repeated during the time interval (Max_Period / Period).
- "Cast Time" - Amount of time spent casting that skill during the time interval (Cycles * Delay).
Multiplier:
- Amp = x1.45
- Burning = x1.1
- Arcane Aim = x1.4
- Mastery = 0.875 (average damage with 75% mastery)
- Critical = x1.0175 (5% rate, +20-50% damage)
- Total = x1.988068
Arcane Aim gives us +20% Ignore PDR, and ME has an additional +40% Ignore PDR (+60% total on that Eruption only). This means that the PDR multiplier for a 70% PDR boss is x0.44 for most attacks, and x0.72 for ME.
Infinity is not included in any of these calculations. Comparisons against the I/L mage were obviously made against the non-infinity %/sec values.
Now to get to the skills: (All values shown are for 70% PDR)
[SIZE="4"]DoT Skills[/SIZE]
Since Meteor has the longest Period (42,000 ms), all "Total Damage" values are how much damage that skill does in 42,000 ms.
| Skill | % | Delay (ms) | DoT | Duration (sec) | Skill % | DoT % | Total % | CD (sec) | Period (ms) | Cycles | Total Damage | Cast Time (ms) |
| Poison Breath | 280 | 720 | 60 | 20 | 244.93 | 1200 | 1444.93 | 0 | 20000 | 2.1 | 3034.35 | 1512 |
| Poison Mist | 230 | 1320 | 240 | 10 | 201.19 | 2400 | 2601.19 | 10 | 10000 | 4.2 | 10925.01 | 5544 |
| Fire Demon | 540 | 720 | 90 | 25 | 472.36 | 2250 | 2722.37 | 0 | 25000 | 1.68 | 4573.57 | 1209.6 |
| Big Bang | 1450 | 1720 | 110 | 20 | 1268.39 | 2200 | 3468.39 | 0 | 20000 | 2.1 | 7283.61 | 3612 |
| Meteor | 1480 | 3060 | 176 | 18 | 1294.63 | 3168 | 4462.63 | 42 | 42000 | 1 | 4462.63 | 3060 |
(Note: Poison Mist has a "Duration" and "Cooldown" of 10 seconds due to the fact that is must be recast every 10 sec in order to use Mist Eruption every 10 sec. The DoT is considered to always be applied.)
(Note 2: Meteor is level 19.)
So every 42 seconds, the total damage is 30,279.18%, and 14,937.6 ms is spent rebuffing the DoT (35.57% of the time).
[SIZE="4"]Summons:[/SIZE]
(Ignores all PDR, unaffected by Amp/Burning/Aim/Criticals)
| Summon | % | Summon Delay (ms) | Attack Delay (ms) | Duration (sec) | Period (ms) | # Attacks | Cycles | Total Damage | Cast Time (ms) |
| Ifrit | 400 | 600 | 3030 | 160 | 160000 | 52.81 | 0.2625 | 4851.49 | 157.5 |
So every 42 seconds, the total summon damage is 4,851.49%, and 157.5 ms is spent resummoning.
[SIZE="4"]Specials:[/SIZE]
Mist Eruption is calculated using a +35% additive multiplier stacked 4 times (multiplier is x2.4). Since the DoT from PB/PM/FD/BB/Pa is always active, the +35% damage is always stacked 4 times. Assuming that it only stacks for 2nd-5th DoT. If it stacks for 2nd-6th DoT, then the calculations get a lot more complicated (must factor in when Meteor is on/off), but the damage would be higher.
| Skill | % | Delay (ms) | % Ignore PDR | PDR Multiplier | CD (sec) | Period (ms) | Cycles | Skill % | Total Damage | Cast Time |
| Mist Eruption | 6000 | 1320 | 40 | x0.72 | 10 | 10000 | 4.2 | 8588.45 | 36071.5 | 5544 |
So every 42 seconds, the total special damage is 36,071.5%, and 5544 ms is spent casting.
[SIZE="4"]Main Attack:[/SIZE]
While it does have a DoT, Paralyze is considered the main attack. The DoT damage is always applied since the DoT duration is longer than it takes to rebuff all other DoT sources and cast Eruption.
The total time spent reapplying DoT, resummoning, and casting Mist Eruption is 20,639.1 ms out of every 42 seconds (49.14% of the time).
| Skill | % | Delay (ms) | DoT | # Casts | Skill % | DoT % | Total Damage |
| Paralyze | 771 | 720 | 140 | 29.67 | 20009.00 | 5880 | 25889.00 |
So every 42 seconds, the total main attack damage is 25,889.00%.
[SIZE="4"]Results:[/SIZE]
The grand total damage every 42 seconds comes to 97,091.16% for a %/sec of 2,311.694%.
Without Summons: 92,387.21% for a %/sec of 2,199.70%.
[SIZE="4"]Interesting Things:[/SIZE]
While doing these calculations, I noticed that casting Meteor actually hurts the %/sec when attacking mobs with 0% or 10% PDR. However, it helps your damage on mobs with 40% or 70% PDR (since the DoT ignores PDR). However, even in the best case (70% PDR), throwing Meteor into the mix only raises your damage output by x1.01293 (+1.29%) assuming no server lag on the CD timer. It's probably safe to just forget about even casting it unless you need its range (e.g., to clear out some zak summons during the fight).
Yes, this would be more accurate if I actual created an "attack sequence" that showed the order in which the attacks were applied. The results would vary slightly due to casting a DoT skill a little earlier (thus, not getting the full benefit from the DoT damage), or later (thus, letting the DoT lapse even for one tick). However, in the long run, everything averages out (and gets royally disrupted by a single dispel/seduce/etc.)
EDIT: Removed the x0.875 multiplier for DoT and added x0.875 multiplier for Summons (Mastery).
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2011-10-12
DoT/0.875 = average damage scaled to your range
Since DoT always does maximum damage, it is effectively 1/0.875x higher than your average at any given time. I didn't consider Summons, but I believe they are not affected by Critical and do damage based on your range. Meteor is only useful for the damage boost to Mist Eruption, otherwise it is too significantly slow to be useful. I haven't had time to update it, but I'll fix it up later tonight/tomorrow with some more information on how the damage is calculated I guess.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - ElderTree - 2011-10-12
JoeTang Wrote:DoT/0.875 = average damage scaled to your range
Since DoT always does maximum damage, it is effectively 1/0.875x higher than your average at any given time. I didn't consider Summons, but I believe they are not affected by Critical and do damage based on your range. Meteor is only useful for the damage boost to Mist Eruption, otherwise it is too significantly slow to be useful. I haven't had time to update it, but I'll fix it up later tonight/tomorrow with some more information on how the damage is calculated I guess.
Ah, I see. So then all the DoT values I calculated should be higher since I already adjusted the non-DoT by x0.875 due to mastery. Good to know about the summons. I agree about the Meteor comment (barely affects DPS, ESPECIALLY if the +35% damage multiplier for ME is restricted to just the 2nd-5th DoT).
EDIT: Just updated my previous post with the new information.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2011-10-13
My method of calculation is a set of code that executes such that it does this:
- Infinity
- Meteo
- Poison Mist
- Flame Gear
- Fire Demon
- Big Bang
- Poison Breath
- Mist Eruption
- Paralyze
Where it goes through the list and if the cooldown/duration is depleted, it will recast it. Otherwise, it uses Paralyze.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Kaffei4Lunch - 2011-10-13
I just wanted to say that the Mist Eruption's cooldown is more like 12~15 seconds..
Like, I'll use the skill, and wait 10 seconds, but it always delays for a few seconds more. Idk if it's server lag or something, but yeah @_@
Also, in the chart on the front page, how come I/Ls don't use Ice Demon for DoT? Does the time used to cast it once decrease overall dpm?
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Kaffei4Lunch - 2011-10-13
double post sorry*
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2011-10-13
Kaffei4Lunch Wrote:I just wanted to say that the Mist Eruption's cooldown is more like 12~15 seconds..
Like, I'll use the skill, and wait 10 seconds, but it always delays for a few seconds more. Idk if it's server lag or something, but yeah @_@
Also, in the chart on the front page, how come I/Ls don't use Ice Demon for DoT? Does the time used to cast it once decrease overall dpm?
Server lag would be the cause of why your Mist Eruption's cooldown isn't exactly 10 seconds.
I've fixed the I/L damage to include Ice Demon. The code I had been using previously wasn't updated to include the most recent damage. It's a marginal increase in lower defense monsters and a decent increase on high defense ones.
Updated F/P to include a more accurate Meteo as well as properly adjusting the damage bonuses for Mist Eruption. If 2 DoTs makes Mist Eruption do 1.35x damage, then the total DPS would rise about 200~300%/s I believe.
Overall conclusions we can draw now are that DoT ignoring defense puts F/P ahead of I/Ls by a significant margin at the highest end, but the damage cap would make them even on other grounds I believe. Since Evan has such low defense penetrating skills and no DoTs to speak of, they fall further behind than I/Ls. Battle Mages aren't very good. Bishops suck the most.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Locked - 2011-10-13
JoeTang Wrote:Overall conclusions we can draw now are that DoT ignoring defense puts F/P ahead of I/Ls by a significant margin at the highest end, but the damage cap would make them even on other grounds I believe. Since Evan has such low defense penetrating skills and no DoTs to speak of, they fall further behind than I/Ls. Battle Mages aren't very good. Bishops suck the most.
NOT BISHOPS!@@
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Kaffei4Lunch - 2011-10-13
JoeTang Wrote:Server lag would be the cause of why your Mist Eruption's cooldown isn't exactly 10 seconds.
I've fixed the I/L damage to include Ice Demon. The code I had been using previously wasn't updated to include the most recent damage. It's a marginal increase in lower defense monsters and a decent increase on high defense ones.
Updated F/P to include a more accurate Meteo as well as properly adjusting the damage bonuses for Mist Eruption. If 2 DoTs makes Mist Eruption do 1.35x damage, then the total DPS would rise about 200~300%/s I believe.
Overall conclusions we can draw now are that DoT ignoring defense puts F/P ahead of I/Ls by a significant margin at the highest end, but the damage cap would make them even on other grounds I believe. Since Evan has such low defense penetrating skills and no DoTs to speak of, they fall further behind than I/Ls. Battle Mages aren't very good. Bishops suck the most.
Interesting. Thanks for the info! =D
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - JoeTang - 2011-10-21
| Derp | 0% DEF | 10% DEF | 40% DEF | 70% DEF |
| Revamped Evan | 10574%/s | 9725%/s | 7180%/s | 4635%/s |
Using Illusion, Phantom Imprint, with -4 Weapon Speed from Dragon Soul, Magic Booster (Fastest (2)), and 45% critical hit rate from Spell Mastery, Critical magic, with 35% minimum critical from Critical Magic. Buffs include Dragon Fury, Magic Amplification, and their Legend skill.
Evans aren't half bad. Actually, this isn't the most impressive part in my opinion anyways. Look at Flame Wheel and Blaze. Overpowered.
Working on Battle Mages soon and I'll have a Warrior comparison later as well. Probably holding out on Archer comparison since it's not that significant, and I don't care about mechs.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Takebacker - 2011-10-21
Omg the second revamp patch is going to be ridiculous if evans can reach 4.5k %/s.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - Abysseon - 2011-10-21
^Agreed.
JoeTang Wrote:
Derp 0% DEF 10% DEF 40% DEF 70% DEF Revamped Evan 10282%/s 9457%/s 6982%/s 4507%/s
Using Illusion, Phantom Imprint, with -4 Weapon Speed from Dragon Soul, Magic Booster (Fastest (2)), and 45% critical hit rate from Spell Mastery, Critical magic, with 35% minimum critical from Critical Magic. Buffs include Dragon Fury, Magic Amplification, and their Legend skill.
Evans aren't half bad. Actually, this isn't the most impressive part in my opinion anyways. Look at Flame Wheel and Blaze. Overpowered.
Nearly 2x the damage %/s of archmages at 0% def?...
I wonder what led them to do a complete 180 and buff evans to this extent from legend when
mercedes/demon slayers were part of the update.
Magician %/s (KMS FLY 2 & GMS Dawnveil) - EternalRain - 2011-10-21
Abysseon Wrote:^Agreed.
Nearly 2x the damage %/s of archmages at 0% def?...
I wonder what led them to do a complete 180 and buff evans to this extent from legend when
mercedes/demon slayers were part of the update.
You do have to note that they do hit cap far easier now. But still, that is impressive buffing.