+- Southperry.net (https://www.southperry.net)
+-- Forum: Social (https://www.southperry.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=14)
+--- Forum: Current Events (https://www.southperry.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=55)
+--- Thread: Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Arizona, Shot By Gunman (/showthread.php?tid=35868)
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Arizona, Shot By Gunman - Anonymous Moose - 2011-01-16
FrozNlite Wrote:Can you please post a few news articles that detail the total loss of civilian American life, to this day, due to the invasion of Mexican drug cartels in Arizona? Along with that, can you also post articles describing the actual invasion of Arizona by these cartels? If this is as such a big a deal as you say it is, I'd like to know more, but I'm having trouble finding sources.
That is because mainstream news barely covers it at all. However a few quick google searches got me these articles.
http://nation.foxnews.com/border-chaos/2010/09/01/sheriff-mexican-cartels-control-parts-arizona
http://katypundit.com/news/townhall-arizona-sheriff-issues-permission-to-use-lethal-force-against-drug-cartels-and-bandits/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLF19vI2XuY
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/02/mexican-drug-cartel-allegedly-puts-price-arizona-sheriffs-head/
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2010/09/obama_ignores_m.php
From all I have read, its starting to sound like Arizona is turning into Mexico: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/01/07/60minutes/main7223343.shtml
A few are from fox, but its thankfully not Hannity or any other of their top morons. And one thing I have had difficulting finding is an exact death toll for Americans alone, but apparently over 28000 people have been confirmed to have died at the hands of these cartels between 2006 and 2010 (btw, thats more than Terroists have killed since 9/11/01 in about half the amount of years) http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5659832/mexico_drug_cartel_deaths_at_28000.html
And these cartels have been described as their own military force with weapons far stronger than those that are legal in America.
And all the federal government does is set up silly signs.
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Arizona, Shot By Gunman - Cancambo - 2011-01-16
FrozNlite Wrote:http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/
He's defended the TSA violating our 4th amendment rights, he's highly against Wikileaks, he hasn't closed Guantanimo, and continues to fight pointless and costly wars. And he continues to make our deficit worse and worse. Why can't he push harder for freedom, and less for measures and laws that only hurt us?
@At the drug cartel thing, what? America created the problem by banning drugs. When you ban a substance that people ought to be free to use (it is their own body after all), you open the gates for criminal organizations to supply the now illegal substances. We don't need to send armed soldiers to defeat cartels, we need to do the thing that will promote freedom and save soldiers lives. Legalize it!
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Arizona, Shot By Gunman - Hazzy - 2011-01-16
Cancambo Wrote:And he continues to make our deficit worse and worse.
Sn1perJohnE Wrote:Id like free healthcare for all and such, but with no way to pay for it, its not feasible to at this time.
With almost 10% unemployment... now is the best time for the Government to spend, spend, and SPEND. Keynesian Economics 101 right here.
Politicians on both sides have been employing expansionary policy since the late 1960s, and one of the few times since then when it was actually a good idea, people are against it?
"What about the debt?"
John Maynard Keynes Wrote:In the future, we're all dead. Next question.
Cancambo Wrote:Why can't he push harder for freedom, and less for measures and laws that only hurt us?With Congress as it is, he compromises here and there. There are majorities that support(ed) those measures, so he supported them to try and please everyone. Debatable on whether that was a good idea or not.
Anonymous Moose Wrote:http://nation.foxnews.com/border-chaos/2010/09/01/sheriff-mexican-cartels-control-parts-arizona
http://katypundit.com/news/townhall-arizona-sheriff-issues-permission-to-use-lethal-force-against-drug-cartels-and-bandits/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLF19vI2XuY
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/02/mexican-drug-cartel-allegedly-puts-price-arizona-sheriffs-head/
http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2010/09/obama_ignores_m.php
Valid News Sources only please.
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Arizona, Shot By Gunman - Anonymous Moose - 2011-01-16
Cancambo Wrote:He's defended the TSA violating our 4th amendment rights, he's highly against Wikileaks, he hasn't closed Guantanimo, and continues to fight pointless and costly wars. And he continues to make our deficit worse and worse. Why can't he push harder for freedom, and less for measures and laws that only hurt us?
@At the drug cartel thing, what? America created the problem by banning drugs. When you ban a substance that people ought to be free to use (it is their own body after all), you open the gates for criminal organizations to supply the now illegal substances. We don't need to send armed soldiers to defeat cartels, we need to do the thing that will promote freedom and save soldiers lives. Legalize it!
Speaking of Debt, Bush added about $5 trillion to the national debt in his 8 years, from $5.73 trillion to $10.7 trillion. Obama has caused the debt to rise to about $14 trillion and it would probably be about $15-16 trillion by the end of his first (and I hope only) term, and this would mean about $5 trillion in 4 years. He is very close to double the rate of Bush.
In terms of drug laws... I do believe that the Federal Government needs to stop pretending they have any authority when it comes to drugs. The constitution specifically states that anything not covered in the constitution is under the power of the states and the people. Of course this means that the only legal laws regarding drugs are at he state level and below. It also sickens me that the government has the nerve to victimize and demonize legal users who vary between cancer patients to disabled veterans.
Where this ties in with the drug cartels is the fact criminalizing drugs creates the black market where gangs, the mafia, and these cartels are able to set up shop and make money. And since it is on the black market the drugs arent regulated (potentially even laced or contaminated), the gangs are able to create monopolies on their turf and raise the price (the potentially decreased supply affects this as well and raises their profits), and of course since these are gangs they dont do things lawfully and will even kill and have their own little wars on our streets and bribe or kill those with power in our communities.
All of this was proven and shown in the Prohibition Era when the Federal Government banned alcohol (the funny thing is that they did it legally with a constitutional amendment). However, the porhibition era showed us all one other thing. It showed us that all the power the gangs and mafia gained from illegal substances was lost when the substance became legal again. And yes, the same thing will happen if/when the drugs carried by the cartels are decriminalized. However, I would suspect strong opposition from them. They are also a powerful militant force.
Then, regardless of the drug laws we have, its an absolute shame that out military that is meant to protect us is off fighting a fruitless, pointless, and meaningless war.
@above: Then what is "valid." Mainstream is all corrupted and questionable. Then the alternatives are all... well, they just lack prestige, so no one listens to them.
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Arizona, Shot By Gunman - Cancambo - 2011-01-16
Hazzy Wrote:With almost 10% unemployment... now is the best time for the Government to spend, spend, and SPEND. Keynesian Economics 101 right here.
Politicians on both sides have been employing expansionary policy since the late 1960s, and one of the few times since then when it was actually a good idea, people are against it?
"What about the debt?"
With Congress as it is, he compromises here and there. There are majorities that support(ed) those measures, so he supported them to try and please everyone. Debatable on whether that was a good idea or not.
Valid News Sources only please.
If we didn't already have a giant deficit, I'd be more in favor of Keynesian economics. The problem is that we have to stop Keynesian policies sooner or later, yet he continues to spend ridiculous amounts of money, a large portion of which is going to something that hasn't accomplished much of anything (the war on "terror"). Sure, you might die before we have to answer to the debt, but why jeopardize everyone else's future? The USA owes a damn lot of money to the world, and sooner or later we'll have to answer to that debt. I personally think one way we could lower unemployment is to raise incentives for companies to do business within the USA. Maybe we could restrict the power of unions so people like the autoworkers stop bankrupting the auto companies. I understand that we'll never get all the companies to do business in America, nor do we really want them to, but everyone could make some necessary sacrifices to better the unemployment rate instead of taking the easy, dangerous Keynesian way out. Sure, if someone helped pass policies like this, they wouldn't be popular, but that isn't the point. Their job is do what is in the best interest for the nation as a whole, and not themselves.
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Arizona, Shot By Gunman - Satellite - 2011-01-16
Anonymous Moose Wrote:I heard that is was all for political gain, but anything politians like him do is for his or her own personal gain. I'll probably watch it later when I have the time and patience to listen to that bastard.And capitalists like Sarah Palin and George Bush are way better? Republicans only think of war, oil and low taxes -> PERSONAL GAIN. Most promises Obama made, haven't been reclaimed yet, due to REPUBLICANS.
Thank god I live in Finland.
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Arizona, Shot By Gunman - Cancambo - 2011-01-16
Satellite Wrote:And capitalists like Sarah Palin and George Bush are way better? Republicans only think of war, oil and low taxes -> PERSONAL GAIN. Most promises Obama made, haven't been reclaimed yet, due to REPUBLICANS.
Thank god I live in Finland.
The mentally retarded Republicans only think of war, oil, and low taxes*
The Republican platform is NOT bad on the whole. The Republican platform is supposed to be about limited government and a very free and capitalistic society. The goal for most republicans is to create a society where people control their own life, and attempt to keep the government out of their lives. I myself identify as a Libertarian just because if I were to say I was a Republican people would immediately get the wrong idea about me. ( As my dad says: "the only difference between a a Libertarian and a true Republican is electability.") The problem is, like many people in power, the Republicans in power have gotten their views messed up and take their position as a chance to benefit themselves, start wars, and spread the teachings of God.
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Arizona, Shot By Gunman - Atuan - 2011-01-16
Hazzy Wrote:Valid News Sources only please.
A 'better' source.
People need to learn how to set the opinionated and exaggerated bits from the rest of the article. Just because information X is published by source Y doesn't necessarily mean X is suddenly BS. They just happened to add BS in somewhere down the line. Learn to spot, and ignore, a spin.
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Arizona, Shot By Gunman - Hazzy - 2011-01-16
Cancambo Wrote:If we didn't already have a giant deficit, I'd be more in favor of Keynesian economics. The problem is that we have to stop Keynesian policies sooner or later, yet he continues to spend ridiculous amounts of money, a large portion of which is going to something that hasn't accomplished much of anything (the war on "terror"). Sure, you might die before we have to answer to the debt, but why jeopardize everyone else's future? The USA owes a damn lot of money to the world, and sooner or later we'll have to answer to that debt. I personally think one way we could lower unemployment is to raise incentives for companies to do business within the USA. Maybe we could restrict the power of unions so people like the autoworkers stop bankrupting the auto companies. I understand that we'll never get all the companies to do business in America, nor do we really want them to, but everyone could make some necessary sacrifices to better the unemployment rate instead of taking the easy, dangerous Keynesian way out. Sure, if someone helped pass policies like this, they wouldn't be popular, but that isn't the point. Their job is do what is in the best interest for the nation as a whole, and not themselves.
There is no reason to stop Keynesian Economics. If politicians followed it properly, the National Debt right now would be much lower. What needs to stop is expansionary policies when the economy is healthy and near full employment.
What's so terrible about debt? The Crowding out effect? We're a bit away from that. It could potential cause problems with trade partners, but the only country that invested in American Dollars is China- if they try to kill our economy it will end up destroying theirs.
The massive debt up until 2008 was both parties' faults. Republican Congressmen are almost uniformly against any kind of taxation and favor small Government while Democrats favor higher taxation and more spending. Because the system favors what people think they need / want, and not what is actually good for the country, the result is a low tax with high government spending. (Take little from me, give me a lot back) The economically viable solution is to raise taxes and cut spending on the three big parts of spending: Military and the programs to take care of old / sick people. Getting rid of ear marks, small programs here and there, etc. can't hurt, but the benefit from them is hardly noticeable. But if it's done too soon, the recession will relapse.
Knowing exactly when is difficult, because of Okun's Law. It also means some random polititian a few years down the road is going to be credited with 'saving the economy' because he was elected at just the right time. A 2% increase in the GDP should decrease unemployment by 1%, so to return to 5% from 9% will take roughly 4 more years of proper action. With Congress as it is, nothing will get done. Not sure how that's going to work out.
Forcing jobs from overseas by crippling Unions isn't going to solve much. Something like 2 million jobs have been outsourced ... out of a 150 million work force.
Long story short: The economic theory is fine, but no one practices it. Politics as usual.
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Arizona, Shot By Gunman - Anonymous Moose - 2011-01-16
Satellite Wrote:And capitalists like Sarah Palin and George Bush are way better? Republicans only think of war, oil and low taxes -> PERSONAL GAIN. Most promises Obama made, haven't been reclaimed yet, due to REPUBLICANS.
Thank god I live in Finland.
Bullpomegranate.
He has the power to bring back withdraw the troops, but he doesnt. In fact he plans to stay in Afganistan while he is showing no signs keeping his promise of withdrawing from Iraq.
Did Republicans stop him from enacting his policy of giving the public several days to read bills online before congress votes? No they didnt stop him. In fact Republicans where pissed that Obama tried to rush healthcare through so fast that they could not read the final version of the bill before voting. Just like how Bush rushed the patriot act through before anyone could read it.
Did Republicans stop him from repealing NAFTA or CAFTA? They didnt even have the chance to stop him. Obama never attempted to keep this promise.
Actually, instead of me listing all the cases where republicans didnt stop him or even get in the way. Why dont you list a few cases where republicans have stopped him from keeping his promises.
And Atuan is right. Opinions in articles dont discredit the facts they may contain. Its just that you need to be wise enough to ignore the opinions filter out the facts.
Edit: In terms of government spending, we need to pull back on spending. We need to stop raising the debt limit (btw, Obama was against raising the debt limit as a senator, but is for it now). And we need to drop several inneffective and illegal government organizations and programs. FCC, EPA, FDA, and the Department of Education are all examples of inneffective organizations that have done nothing good for this country. Besides, these are illegal organizations and its the responsibility of the State governments to take those responsibilities. I'd also disband organizations like the CIA, because of all the illegal activities they have been involved in throught the years.
Some other things that need to happen include:
Discontinuing bailouts. If a business is stupid enough to destroy itself, then they should not be bailed out. They should fail and the void will most likely be filled by a new and more intelligent company.
End the Federal Reserve. Its a private bank that prints money as it pleases with no checks and balances. After they are out of the picture, all power to print money needs to be returned to congress and left out in the open like it was meant to be.
And debt is bad, because it means you owe someone money. It means someone has leverage over you. Its a scary thought that a foreign organization would have leverage over our government.
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Arizona, Shot By Gunman - Jamie_Kurosawa - 2011-01-17
The CIA sadly is needed even though they are some of the dirtiest people in the world at times. They are a necessary evil.
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Arizona, Shot By Gunman - Mike - 2011-01-17
What the hell happened in this thread?
It's great to see her improve. She has some movement now.